Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

[LTC8K6]

Is it expected CL is to have no cpu core enhancements besides 2 more cores?

"A third improved process, "14nm++", is set to begin in late 2017 and will further allow for +23-24% higher drive current for 52% less power vs the original 14nm process."

https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/14_nm_lithography_process

Whatever that means...

 

[AdamK47]

Well damn. I may have to rethink my life now.

The thirst to have the best of the best may come back to me. Right now it's just not there.

 

[jpiniero]

I don't think we'll see Cannonlake-SP either.

At this point I am assuming you won't see any die on Intel at 10 nm that's of any kind of decent size. Maybe at the very end of the node. For servers I think they are going to go straight to Tigerlake-SP and EMIB.

 

[TheF34RChannel]

"A third improved process, "14nm++", is set to begin in late 2017 and will further allow for +23-24% higher drive current for 52% less power vs the original 14nm process."

https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/14_nm_lithography_process

Whatever that means...

What is drive current?

At this point I am assuming you won't see any die on Intel at 10 nm that's of any kind of decent size. Maybe at the very end of the node. For servers I think they are going to go straight to Tigerlake-SP and EMIB.

Cascade Lake-SP first, maybe Coffee Lake and Ice Lake as well. I think EMIB comes with Ice Lake or after Tiger Lake? I cannot remember.

 

[jpiniero]

I think EMIB comes with Ice Lake or after Tiger Lake? I cannot remember.

10++, so Tiger. The Lenovo leak mentions "Icelake Refresh" (ie: Tigerlake) in 2019 and 7 nm Sapphire Rapids in 2020. We'll see if Intel can meet those dates. Obviously any SR tiles that are 7 nm will be really tiny.

 

[TheF34RChannel]

10++, so Tiger. The Lenovo leak mentions "Icelake Refresh" (ie: Tigerlake) in 2019 and 7 nm Sapphire Rapids in 2020. We'll see if Intel can meet those dates. Obviously any SR tiles that are 7 nm will be really tiny.

So that's:

2017 Coffee Lake
2018 Ice Lake
2019 Tiger Lake
2020 Sapphire Rapid (7nm server part?)

My path will then be CFL-S > TGL-S > ??

 

[jpiniero]

So that's:

2017 Coffee Lake
2018 Ice Lake
2019 Tiger Lake
2020 Sapphire Rapid (7nm server part?)

My path will then be CFL-S > TGL-S > ??

Tiger is server first, so client is probably Q1 2020. Wouldn't put it past Intel to do another 10 nm Lake for client for 2020/2021.

 

[mikk]

Cascade Lake comes in 2018, Icelake in 2019.

 

[Edrick]

I don't think we'll see Cannonlake-SP either.

All the Intel AVX-512 documentation thus far (as recent as June 2017) has pointed to a Cannonlake-SP release.

 

[jpiniero]

Cascade Lake comes in 2018, Icelake in 2019.

At some point, server is going to have to "skip one" to get in front of client.. and Tiger is really just Ice on 10++. So it does make sense.

 

[IntelUser2000]

At some point, server is going to have to "skip one" to get in front of client.. and Tiger is really just Ice on 10++. So it does make sense.

Considering that Sklylake-SP differs so much from base Skylake, it won't even matter whether its Icelake or Tigerlake. Icelake-SP, or whatever the server version is called probably has a bigger core change than Tigerlake does.

 

[Ajay]

Server first being a Icelake 'refresh' doesn't make sense to me. Seems like Intel would want to define the basic uarch for servers and then have the client team cut features, cache sizes etc.

 

[formulav8]

When is the next real cpu update supposed to be? It looks like 14nm through 14++ is the same cpu core arch. What's going on? Even 10nm doesn't look to be much when it comes to core arch changes.

 

[Intervenator]

When is the next real cpu update supposed to be? It looks like 14nm through 14++ is the same cpu core arch. What's going on? Even 10nm doesn't look to be much when it comes to core arch changes.

I'm with him. I do not need to upgrade my 3770K, but want some really enticing reasons to do so anyways... Recent years have yielded very marginal performance and feature improvements, or in some cases even regression *shivers*. Furthermore, new process tech does not seem to be translating into the kind of performance I have come to expect as we saw from 22nm > 14nm. Basically, at this point in time, is there any indication that any of their future offerings are worth getting excited about yet?

 

[TheF34RChannel]

When is the next real cpu update supposed to be? It looks like 14nm through 14++ is the same cpu core arch. What's going on? Even 10nm doesn't look to be much when it comes to core arch changes.

With Ice Lake AFAIK... Or is the complete overhaul and revolutionary new design after TGL?

 

[NostaSeronx]

What is drive current?

http://www.iue.tuwien.ac.at/phd/stockinger/node29.html

-----

Or is the complete overhaul and revolutionary new design after TGL?

Next-gen architecture comes from below. SNC/WLC Full OoO cluster, no SMT.

 

[TheGiant]

This
I am missing the C2D level of improvement. Does anyone have any info of what is going on inside Intel? They seem from the outside living in their own world....

 

[beginner99]

I think we will be hard pressed to see a difference in gaming between 7700K, 7740X, and the CFL 6C/12T chip.

The 7700K remains the gaming king, with it's only challenger being another 4 core chip, the 7740X.

Unless 14nm++ is a bigger improvement than anyone expects...

In benches maybe but not real usage. I disagree for real-world scenarios.

1. Multiplayer like BF1 is hardly ever benched and here multi-core wins (Stock broadwell-e beat 7700k easily for example)
2. Streaming
3. General background tasks. A PC for benching usually runs 0 background stuff, probably of the network, no AV and so forth. So not really a realistic scenario. Hence 2 more cores actually help in real-world when 4 are 100% used for your gaming load, and background process will lead to fps drop.

 

[LTC8K6]

In benches maybe but not real usage. I disagree for real-world scenarios.

1. Multiplayer like BF1 is hardly ever benched and here multi-core wins (Stock broadwell-e beat 7700k easily for example)
2. Streaming
3. General background tasks. A PC for benching usually runs 0 background stuff, probably of the network, no AV and so forth. So not really a realistic scenario. Hence 2 more cores actually help in real-world when 4 are 100% used for your gaming load, and background process will lead to fps drop.

I wonder if a 6C BW-E beats a 7700K that easily in BF1? I'm sure it beats it, because BF1 does like more cores.

But the CFL chip won't have the extra cache that a 6C BW-E has, so it may be somewhat slower in games, which seem to like cache.
It won't have the memory bandwidth that a BW-E chip has, either. It will have about half.

BF1 seems to be the game that is always trotted out for the number of cores argument.

 

[LTC8K6]

This
I am missing the C2D level of improvement. Does anyone have any info of what is going on inside Intel? They seem from the outside living in their own world....

Yes, because it's so easy anyone can do it.

 

[TheF34RChannel]

Yes, because it's so easy anyone can do it.

Ha ha if only! It's much needed though, a revolutionary new design that brings forward the innovation we will need for the foreseeable future.

 

[jpiniero]

Server first being a Icelake 'refresh' doesn't make sense to me.

Because Icelake-SP would be cancelled so they can bring Tigerlake-SP (and EMIB) sooner.

When is the next real cpu update supposed to be?

Sapphire Rapid.

 

[crashtech]

Coffeelake can't come soon enough, I just haven't been able to get inspired by HEDT.

 

[TheF34RChannel]

Sapphire Rapid.

Sapphire Rapid is server only, which wouldn't make sense because they'd do all platforms for a completely new design.

 

[mikk]

Sapphire Rapid.

Icelake is not a real CPU update? Are you saying it is another Skylake refresh update like Kabylake?