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Intel Cannonlake, Ice Lake, Tiger Lake & Sapphire rapid thread

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Intel Inside

Junior Member
Jan 24, 2020
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AMD fans go, For an AMD thread, Leave that thread alone.



I just warned you to stop the trolling and baiting.
Take a couple days off.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director
 
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lobz

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2017
1,011
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AMD fans go, For an AMD thread, Leave that thread alone.
You chose the wrong forum for this kind of conversation and hysteria-mongering. You were also warned by admins a couple of times, I don't understand why are you trying to force this simple perception of yours on the whole audience of AT forums.

WCCFtech comment section is a perfect place for how you wanna instantly re-thematise a thread when you read a comment that hurts your beliefs.
 
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RetroZombie

Senior member
Nov 5, 2019
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I know last Atom core is pretty wide, 3xALU+1xbranch. But why did you mentioned that? You mean that Atom cores will be wider than big cores soon? Atom cores evolution is much faster (from 2xALU in-order to 3xALU OoO) while big core design is kind of stuck.
Well looking at the paper the design seams made to scale, and if the arm, apple designs are getting wider like you said and those are/still very power efficient, that means I see intel keeping the clocks low on the atom but making the core wider to achieve higher performance, not meaning that will be faster than the bigger cores, those will always have high clocks and high ipc and a big cooler to cool it down.
Different markets approach...
 

Richie Rich

Senior member
Jul 28, 2019
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Well looking at the paper the design seams made to scale, and if the arm, apple designs are getting wider like you said and those are/still very power efficient, that means I see intel keeping the clocks low on the atom but making the core wider to achieve higher performance, not meaning that will be faster than the bigger cores, those will always have high clocks and high ipc and a big cooler to cool it down.
Different markets approach...
You are right. Intel can make Atom in future ultra wide low power something like A13 (mainly targeting laptops), that makes sense too. However I think Intel will come up with wider architecture for Core first (probably Golden Cove?).
 

Jan Olšan

Senior member
Jan 12, 2017
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I agree, 2022 is the year where Intel could put everything together and strike back.
Sapphire Rapids is still 10nm, isn't it? That process is in shambles 4 years after its original introduction. I stopped believing that it can be salvaged, even though originally it seemed ridiculous to think that Intel lacks the money and resources to do just that. Heck, they could have just restarted development and they would have something competetive with TSMC 7nm by now, if everything worked as expected/in the old days.

So I expect the 10nm process to be a liability and drag Sapphire Rapids and whatever CPU core it uses down. It is not certain but highly likely. Look at Ice Lake server - seems it's 'end of year 2020 with low volume' farce now, with Cooper Lake plan B quickly becoming the plan A. It is likely that Intel is not done with their "10nm on track" mystifications yet, which means we need to prepare for more disappointment.

If that is true, the only counterattack possible is probably Intel's 7nm process.

Well, that is, technically. As you can see in the sales, Intel could maintain 90% server marketshare with LGA-packaged turd, so what do we know, perhaps their 10nm/14nm things will still sell as well as now because markets simply don't care. But from technical standpoint, you gotta wait for 7nm Xeons it seems.
 

Richie Rich

Senior member
Jul 28, 2019
271
141
76
Sapphire Rapids is still 10nm, isn't it? That process is in shambles 4 years after its original introduction. I stopped believing that it can be salvaged, even though originally it seemed ridiculous to think that Intel lacks the money and resources to do just that. Heck, they could have just restarted development and they would have something competetive with TSMC 7nm by now, if everything worked as expected/in the old days.
I agree, Intel looks in really bad posision now. However Intel 10nm transistor density is crazy, it's equal to TSMC's 7nm. They simply jumped two nodes ahead so 4 years looks OK (new node every 2 years tick/tock strategy). On top of that Intel has clearly a big problem with last DUV process. So it looks like Intel is full of incompetent people when they are stuck at 14nm for 5 years (Broadwell on 14nm was end of 2014). But closer look shows 1 year delay only (this can happen when you push old DUV technology to the edge).

However all those problems can be solved quickly by purchasing of new EUV machines from ASML (and as far as I know ASML is the only provider of EUV machines) which gives you a headroom for 5nm and 3nm too. So I wouldn't be surprised when Intel will be suddenly on par with TSMC in 2022.

So from a long term stock investor point of view I can see Intel in very strong position for 2022 (process solved, Keller's significantly wider core - Golden Cove?, EMIB/chiplet design for servers as response to AMD's chiplets).
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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Keller's significantly wider core - Golden Cove
Allegedly, Golden is the last Cove that started development without input from Keller. Ocean Cove, on the other hand, apparently doesn't even exist anymore, depending on whom you believe (and is replaced by . . . Ocean Cove?).
 

OriAr

Member
Feb 1, 2019
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Allegedly, Golden is the last Cove that started development without input from Keller. Ocean Cove, on the other hand, apparently doesn't even exist anymore, depending on whom you believe (and is replaced by . . . Ocean Cove?).
Jim Keller started to work at Intel at April 2018, considering that ADL is not due until 2021 Q2 at the earliest, and that it probably taped out at 2019 H2, it should give Jim enough time at least to influence it somewhat, and in any case he knows exactly what it looks like. I do believe Intel internally call Golden Cove the NGC, It IS probably the next generation of x86 cores after Sunny Cove (Willow Cove isn't much more than adding cache to Sunny Cove).

Random fact: Sunny Cove is the 13th generation of x86 (On the Intel side).
 
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yeshua

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Aug 7, 2019
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itvision.altervista.org
Probably the first Ice Lake server six-core CPU result:


(More results: https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/search?utf8=✓&q=GenuineIntel+Family+6+Model+106+Stepping+0 )

Looks like an engineering sample considering the frequencies it's running at ( https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/15119835.gb4 ) - it doesn't hit more than 2700MHz and overall frequencies are very unstable and all over the place - bad thermals? bad cooling?

A dual CPU system with 384GB of RAM. Impressive.
 

Hitman928

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2012
2,283
1,183
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Probably the first Ice Lake server six-core CPU result:


(More results: https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/search?utf8=✓&q=GenuineIntel+Family+6+Model+106+Stepping+0 )

Looks like an engineering sample considering the frequencies it's running at ( https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/15119835.gb4 ) - it doesn't hit more than 2700MHz and overall frequencies are very unstable and all over the place - bad thermals? bad cooling?

A dual CPU system with 384GB of RAM. Impressive.
Those aren't great results, even considering the low frequency. I don't give too much credence to GB4 results though, especially for enterprise hardware that isn't final yet.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
14,607
3,585
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Alder Lake-S is 2021. Yields should be better by then, assuming Intel does something intelligent/semi-intelligent like . . . I dunno, use EMIB on some low core-count dice. Heck yields on 4c Tiger Lake should be at least okay-ish, so they are making some progress. Maybe.

Well, if they are going to backport Willow, may as well backport Golden too. Talk about toasty..
I don't think they're going to make Alder Lake-S 14nm. Rocket Lake-S is already going to be completely ridiculous.
 

tamz_msc

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2017
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If Alder Lake S is 2021 does it mean that there'll be two desktop launches in 2020 - Comet Lake S and Rocket Lake?

I find that hard to believe.
 

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