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Intel Cannonlake, Ice Lake, Tiger Lake & Sapphire rapid thread

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Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
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It's a 2021 product, possibly as late as March (Q1).
Looked back at the old client and the commercial roadmap, and it looks like that is correct, since they've fallen behind the scheduled releases.

Meteor Lake shows up in 2022, assuming all is well with 7nm.
Right. MTL-S looks like late 2022/early 2023. It's still going to cream ADL-S Willow Cove, especially RKL-S if we find out eventually that ADL-S is just like ICL-S/TGL-S.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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It's still going to cream ADL-S Willow Cove, especially RKL-S if we find out eventually that ADL-S is just like ICL-S/TGL-S.
Either way, it needs to be the best thing Intel has produced in over a decade. And if that's Ocean Cove then it's the first product you-know-who will have touched in his time at Intel. Pity it's going to take so long to get it to market. One wonders if Intel has a backup plan to move it to Samsung if necessary.
 

mikk

Platinum Member
May 15, 2012
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If Alder Lake is using Golden Cove, it'll be a third significant iteration under 10nm. That seems less likely.
Look in the architecture roadmap, Intel won't agree with you. 2019 Sunny Cove, 2020 Willow Cove, 2021 Golden Cove. Unless Golden Cove goes for 7nm Intel pretty much confirmed there will be 3 signfications iterations (if CNL is ignored). The news from pcgamesn is baseless about ADL and Willow Cove, he don't know more and out of a sudden people here thinking about ADL-S using Willow Cove, it needs more than that. Same happened with RKL, all people jumped in it must be Skylake which (most likely) isn't. Now this settles and people jump to the next rumor. If Intel is really going for a Willow Cove refresh they wouldn't use the Soc name of a next generation version and the completely new and much bigger LGA is questionable if it's a refresh of RKL-S with just more cores. They should support DDR5 and PCIe5 which I doubt Willow Cove Mainstream is able to. That seems less likely.


They might release a Tigerlake refresh in 2021 with more than 4 cores for mobile, it would make sense if ADL-P isn't ready in 2021.
 
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Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
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Unless Golden Cove goes for 7nm Intel pretty much confirmed there will be 3 signfications iterations (if CNL is ignored).

If Intel is really going for a Willow Cove refresh they would't use the Soc name of a next generation version and the completely new and much bigger LGA is questionable if it's a refresh of RKL-S with just more cores. They should support DDR5 and PCIe5 which I doubt Willow Cove Mainstream is able to. That seems less likely.
Golden Cove is shown for 2021, so it's 10nm, since Intel first will only be producing GPUs on their 7nm.

Yup. Alder Lake was noticed a looong time ago. It came after Tiger Lake. It looks like it's on last 10nm process and judging by the architecture roadmap, it must have the Golden Cove cores with the updated features.

 

liahos1

Senior member
Aug 28, 2013
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Some updates from CES - all intel it looks like. A mix of cometlake and icelake. Interesting to see NEC coming back to the US market and potentially Sony re-entering the market (separate from Vaio).

I'm looking forward to the Intel Keynote tonight at 5pm PT. Anandtech got a little tigerlake news but mentioned that the mean of the introduction was going to be during the keynote.

1578317404747.png
 

mikk

Platinum Member
May 15, 2012
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Golden Cove is shown for 2021, so it's 10nm, since Intel first will only be producing GPUs on their 7nm.

Yup. Alder Lake was noticed a looong time ago. It came after Tiger Lake. It looks like it's on last 10nm process and judging by the architecture roadmap, it must have the Golden Cove cores with the updated features.


Yes exactly, that's why ADL must be on 10nm. The first 7nm product is a HPC GPU in H2 2021, so it pretty much rules out ADL. If there is really a refresh of TGL-U in 2021 based on the Willow Coves architecture (in case ADL-P has been delayed) they wouldn't use the old naming of a next generation SOC. If someone believes in Willow Cove for ADL they must also believe in Meteor Lake going for 10nm Golden Cove. Btw impressive: Ashraf thinks that it may be 10nm+++

10nm+++ wasn't even a thing 2 years ago and looks like ADL is indeed going to use 10+++
 

liahos1

Senior member
Aug 28, 2013
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If its a 2021 product it would be 10nm+++ right?

Cannonlake was 10nm
Icelake is 10nm+
Tigerlake is 10nm++
Every past that should be 10nm+++
 

Gideon

Senior member
Nov 27, 2007
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Some updates from CES - all intel it looks like. A mix of cometlake and icelake. Interesting to see NEC coming back to the US market and potentially Sony re-entering the market (separate from Vaio).

I'm looking forward to the Intel Keynote tonight at 5pm PT. Anandtech got a little tigerlake news but mentioned that the mean of the introduction was going to be during the keynote.
Obviously it's all Intel (though I found no mention of Intel in the Sony teaser) because AMD will only announce it's CPUs and lifts it's NDA onlly after the keynote, in a couple of hours.

Nvidia accidentally already leaked at least one Renoir design for instance. And it's also quite clear that Intel will get more design wins regardless, they are the by-far dominant player. But If you expect AMD to have none or only 1-2 you're also gonna be sorely dissapointed.
 

liahos1

Senior member
Aug 28, 2013
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Obviously it's all Intel (though I found no mention of Intel in the Sony teaser) because AMD will only announce it's CPUs and lifts it's NDA onlly after the keynote, in a couple of hours.

Nvidia accidentally already leaked at least one Renoir design for instance. And it's also quite clear that Intel will get more design wins regardless, they are the by-far dominant player. But If you expect AMD to have none or only 1-2 you're also gonna be sorely dissapointed.
not what i expect. I'm just going by what's been announced so far.
 

yeshua

Member
Aug 7, 2019
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That's weird.

Almost all new laptops presented at CES 2020 feature Comet Lake CPUs - actually I haven't seen a single laptop with Ice Lake. Just announced new Intel NUCs feature Comet Lake CPUs.

Either Intel has given up on Ice Lake or Tiger Lake is around the corner but not yet ready for prime time.
 

liahos1

Senior member
Aug 28, 2013
571
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That's weird.

Almost all new laptops presented at CES 2020 feature Comet Lake CPUs - actually I haven't seen a single laptop with Ice Lake. Just announced new Intel NUCs feature Comet Lake CPUs.

Either Intel has given up on Ice Lake or Tiger Lake is around the corner but not yet ready for prime time.
yes many cometlake -

new 16:10 dell xps13 is icelake
Acer spins are icelake

though there were other icelake products obviously on market:
Acer Swift 5
Dell Inspiron 15 3593
Dell XPS 2-1
HP Spectre x360
Lenovo Yoga c940
Lenovo Yoga s740
Surface Laptop 3
Surface Pro 7
Razer Blade Stealth 13

etc
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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Anyone want to guess at Tigerlake's die size? They are certainly using all of the available package space between the CPU and the PCH.
It's not significantly larger. I'd say any increase is coming from the bigger CPU cores. I'm getting 140-150mm2. This is assuming the PCH die hasn't changed, which is reasonable.

MS is waiting for Lakefield Refresh, plus it seems like MS isn't done with the software either.
No they are not.

Another article talks about how Windows 10X is needed for taking full advantage of they hybrid nature of the CPU, and how it won't be available with the initial Thinkpad X1 Fold release.

The first generation is announced just now. Microsoft also took their sweet time releasing Icelake and Picasso.

For the Surface Neo many articles pointed out how they want to wait for developer support before getting the device out. Expect LKF-R Neo by end of next year.

I can also tell you the Thinkpad isn't that much early. They expect "middle of this year" for availability. That makes Neo at most, 6 months late.
 
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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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Which is assuming Intel is willing to use EMIB in a mainstream volume product (read: not Lakefield) before they launch Sapphire Rapids.
Lakefield uses Foveros, not EMIB.

Anyway, neither Rocket nor Alder needs EMIB. Their OPIO can scale to 100GB/s bandwidth as evidenced by their eDRAM.

This is more then plenty enough, and it doesn't make packaging more complex by integrating a tiny chip to facilitate connections.

EMIB is if they need really high bandwidth, like with HBM2 memory. This is why Ponte Vecchio has it, because its a GPU. Kabylake-G used PCIe x8 connection to communicate with its Vega GPU. Vega chip though, used EMIB for its HBM2 memory.

What exactly is Ryefield?
Successor to Lakefield Refresh.
 

lobz

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2017
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At least it might mean Tiger Lake is actually happening this year. Or 10++ is now 10+ and 10+ is considered 10 now. I have no idea what they go by all those pluses these days.
People here in the past weeks tried to tell me it's coming in Q1.
 
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lobz

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2017
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That's weird.

Almost all new laptops presented at CES 2020 feature Comet Lake CPUs - actually I haven't seen a single laptop with Ice Lake. Just announced new Intel NUCs feature Comet Lake CPUs.

Either Intel has given up on Ice Lake or Tiger Lake is around the corner but not yet ready for prime time.
Why is that weird? Aside from 5-6 people with very hard-driven goalposts here was able to draw the not-so-difficult conclusion that Charlie Demerjian is right and ICL is practically some marketing SKUs with just enough volume to make every major vendor to create a couple of designs and then that's it.
Until somebody can provide me with the number actual shipped ICL chips, I will believe the one with the best track record yet regarding intel's 10nm: Charlie.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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Lakefield uses Foveros, not EMIB.
Hmm, thought they used EMIB on one of the chip layers instead of stacking monolithic dice. Maybe I misinterpreted their presentation.

Anyway, neither Rocket nor Alder needs EMIB. Their OPIO can scale to 100GB/s bandwidth as evidenced by their eDRAM.
Isn't latency also in play here? Though nobody's said anything about how EMIB connections affect latency versus "traditional" MCM configurations. At least not that I've seen.

Successor to Lakefield Refresh.
Hmm. That's gonna be pretty far out then.

At least it might mean Tiger Lake is actually happening this year.
If it didn't, that would be pretty embarassing. Ice Lake launched in 2019 so I assumed it was a given that Tiger Lake would actually come out this year, especially since Intel isn't pushing past 4c on those parts anyway.
 
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mikk

Platinum Member
May 15, 2012
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So both Icelake and Tigerlake are build on 10+, really? I wonder what products Intel is planning for 10++ and 10+++. On the client side there is only Alder Lake coming after Tigerlake as far as we know.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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Hmm, thought they used EMIB on one of the chip layers instead of stacking monolithic dice. Maybe I misinterpreted their presentation.
The die size is 60-70mm2 at most. Yes they stack the 10nm CPU/GPU die on top of the 22FFL process die which includes all the chipset functions.

Isn't latency also in play here? Though nobody's said anything about how EMIB connections affect latency versus "traditional" MCM configurations. At least not that I've seen.
If you look at package shots for Icelake, the two chips are extremely close, and it uses OPIO. You can also compare that to Kaby-G, which uses EMIB.
 

Hitman928

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2012
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So both Icelake and Tigerlake are build on 10+, really? I wonder what products Intel is planning for 10++ and 10+++. On the client side there is only Alder Lake coming after Tigerlake as far as we know.
The write-up I read said that Tiger Lake uses 10+ which is a revision on Ice Lake's 10 (no plus). I think intel is basically just pretending that Cannon Lake and their original 10 nm process never existed at this point.
 

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