Does the use of a motherboard's integrated audio, video, or lan take up more processor cycles than PCI or AGP components of similar capabilities? I know a good video card will almost always perform better than integrated video, but if video performance doesn't matter, will using integrated video slow things down at all? What about integrated audio or lan?
Integrated audio/video/lan
- Thread starter Caiwyn
- Start date
What, no advice-giving for me? 
Surely somebody has thoughts on this... I'm trying to decide whether or not to get a CNR LAN adapter for my 815EP mobo, or stick with a PCI network card. I obviously don't want to go with the CNR solution if it's going to eat even just a few more processor cycles than that PCI NIC would. Anybody?
Surely somebody has thoughts on this... I'm trying to decide whether or not to get a CNR LAN adapter for my 815EP mobo, or stick with a PCI network card. I obviously don't want to go with the CNR solution if it's going to eat even just a few more processor cycles than that PCI NIC would. Anybody?
Integrated devices, especially audio, do take up more CPU cycles than dedicated cards do. However, what you're talking about is a CNR slot, which is not the same thing as an integrated card, IIRC. It's just a dedicated slot for a network card. I don't think you'll lose any CPU cycles. But if you have any doubts, just get the PCI card. They only cost about $15-20 for a decent Linksys or Netgear card.
Good luck!
Nick
Good luck!
Nick
Thanks for the answers, guys. A note about the CNR slot... the CNR LAN adapters merely serve as an adapter for the motherboard's built-in LAN controller, if I understand it correctly. I would like to use a CNR adapter, just on principle (I have weird hangups), but ONLY if I can be sure that it won't steal processor cycles - at least, no more than a PCI NIC would. Anybody around who knows the answer to this?
A note about the CNR slot... the CNR LAN adapters merely serve as an adapter for the motherboard's built-in LAN controller, if I understand it correctly. I would like to use a CNR adapter, just on principle (I have weird hangups), but ONLY if I can be sure that it won't steal processor cycles - at least, no more than a PCI NIC would. Anybody around who knows the answer to this?It will use "MORE" CPU clock cycles
Just the same as an Audio Modem Riser card would.
These are simply controllers that still use
the CPU for all the functions instead of
having the controller on the PCI Card.
Same goes for integrated motherboards.
This setup was not done for the sake of simplicity,
it was done to make NIC's and Modem's more
price competitive, which occurs
when you eliminate the need
to put "functions" on the card, but
shove em off on the cpu.
If it were me, I'd do the PCI card for the Ethernet,
and sound.
Another reason you might not have thought of to do this,
is:
Why get a mobo with everything integrated, when as you
upgrade, you're pigeonholed into buying "another" motherboard
with everything integrated. MY PCI network card and my SCSI
card have happily made the progression as I've gone
from a 200mhz to a 350 to a 600 to an 850 to a 1ghz and to a 1.2
I never had to buy another card.....and I never had to do the integrated
motherboard thing.
If you want an all in one mobo, BUY A DELL or a GATEWAY
hehe
Just the same as an Audio Modem Riser card would.
These are simply controllers that still use
the CPU for all the functions instead of
having the controller on the PCI Card.
Same goes for integrated motherboards.
This setup was not done for the sake of simplicity,
it was done to make NIC's and Modem's more
price competitive, which occurs
when you eliminate the need
to put "functions" on the card, but
shove em off on the cpu.
If it were me, I'd do the PCI card for the Ethernet,
and sound.
Another reason you might not have thought of to do this,
is:
Why get a mobo with everything integrated, when as you
upgrade, you're pigeonholed into buying "another" motherboard
with everything integrated. MY PCI network card and my SCSI
card have happily made the progression as I've gone
from a 200mhz to a 350 to a 600 to an 850 to a 1ghz and to a 1.2
I never had to buy another card.....and I never had to do the integrated
motherboard thing.
If you want an all in one mobo, BUY A DELL or a GATEWAY
hehe
Well, those are good arguments, but like I said, I've got weird hangups. No offense, but could I get a second opinion on this?
No offense, but could I get a second opinion on this? To reiterate - the only argument I'm interested in is whether or not the CNR solution will steal more processor cycles than the PCI card will... that's the only thing that matters to me right now.
<< To reiterate - the only argument I'm interested in is whether or not the CNR solution will steal more processor cycles than the PCI card will... that's the only thing that matters to me right now. >>
The diff will be like .01%. For audio, definately PCI unless you have $2 speakers. For graphics, definately AGP unless you only use 2D at 640 by 800. But for lan, onboard or CNR will not be a problem. All mobos should have it onboard IMHO.
There ya have it........
.01% for lan
maybe .1% for audio (depending on whether game or windows chimes etc)
and maybe 5% if the video was onboard (obviously)
another thing I forgot to mention before regarding onboard sound,
is on every single motherboard I've used with the onboard sound
enabled in the bios, you get to literally "HEAR" the clock cycles
you talk about in the form of background noise if you listen
at higher volume or through headphones.........like you're scrollin
a web page, you'll hear riiiiiiiiippppp as you move it up and down,
very ANNOYING!
Finally, to weird hangups, I have weird hangups too, I have a weird
hangup of paying a little more each time I buy a mobo,
for inferior grade devices that pigeonhole me on upgrades into
buying em all over again and not getting a red cent extra for em
when I sell the board, only to have to do it all over again
when I buy the next bord because I don't have a modem, video card,
lan card, audio card..........
But like u said the only argument you're interested in is do they steal
clock cycles and the answer is a resounding YES!
Anything that relies on your cpu for functions is going to STEAL clock
cycles........and that's what these integrated devices do by nature.....
make the CPU share the work to save some $$
that's as complex as it gits
.01% for lan
maybe .1% for audio (depending on whether game or windows chimes etc)
and maybe 5% if the video was onboard (obviously)
another thing I forgot to mention before regarding onboard sound,
is on every single motherboard I've used with the onboard sound
enabled in the bios, you get to literally "HEAR" the clock cycles
you talk about in the form of background noise if you listen
at higher volume or through headphones.........like you're scrollin
a web page, you'll hear riiiiiiiiippppp as you move it up and down,
very ANNOYING!
Finally, to weird hangups, I have weird hangups too, I have a weird
hangup of paying a little more each time I buy a mobo,
for inferior grade devices that pigeonhole me on upgrades into
buying em all over again and not getting a red cent extra for em
when I sell the board, only to have to do it all over again
when I buy the next bord because I don't have a modem, video card,
lan card, audio card..........
But like u said the only argument you're interested in is do they steal
clock cycles and the answer is a resounding YES!
Anything that relies on your cpu for functions is going to STEAL clock
cycles........and that's what these integrated devices do by nature.....
make the CPU share the work to save some $$
that's as complex as it gits
To clear that mess up:
In-Chipset VGA is slower than an AGP card, because it's using the system main memory. While the 3D engines are all capable 3D engines, the CPU will suffer because it has to share the RAM bandwidth with the graphics engine.
Onboard LAN, no matter if it's a one-piece LAN chip, or LAN-in-the-chipset with a CNR or ACR riser, always is your plain normal non-CPU-hogging bus master LAN device as found on a LAN card. In-Chipset LAN, while obviously not being faster on the LAN, might even save on PCI bus load - this is true for chipsets that connect their north and south through a faster bus than PCI, as do Intel's 8xx, VIA's DDR chipsets, and SiS all-in-ones. The riser approach just splits the digital MAC and analog PHY parts (data pump and physical interface) into two, reason: Mixed-signal chips are difficult to make, especially when it's a high integration part like a chipset south bridge or an all-in-one.
Onboard sound may be an onboard PCI chip, or an in-chipset digital engine that connects to an outside analog CODEC through AC97 bus(es) (see above for reason).
Again, one-piece or two-stage doesn't matter. However, there are both discrete sound chips and chipset-integrated sound engines that don't have their own brain, and have the CPU do all the work. Intel 8xx and VIA 686 south bridges have such stupidos, while SiS all-in-ones and VIA's newer 8231 and 8233 south bridges have intelligent 4-channel engines that are just as good and CPU cycle saving as your average sound card. As with LAN, when the south bridge part is on a faster bus, then chipset-integrated sound may even perform better than PCI sound.
Onboard modem, as do sound and LAN, yet again requires a digital engine and an analog CODEC and line interface. Performance depends on the engine, _but_ I have yet to see an onboard modem solution that isn't entirely software driven. Be it the popular C-Media 8738 PCI sound/modem chip or chipset integrated modem engines from VIA, SiS or Intel, they're all CPU hogs. Their _modem_ performance is good, surfing is just fine with them, but don't bother trying an online 3D game with those.
regards, Peter
In-Chipset VGA is slower than an AGP card, because it's using the system main memory. While the 3D engines are all capable 3D engines, the CPU will suffer because it has to share the RAM bandwidth with the graphics engine.
Onboard LAN, no matter if it's a one-piece LAN chip, or LAN-in-the-chipset with a CNR or ACR riser, always is your plain normal non-CPU-hogging bus master LAN device as found on a LAN card. In-Chipset LAN, while obviously not being faster on the LAN, might even save on PCI bus load - this is true for chipsets that connect their north and south through a faster bus than PCI, as do Intel's 8xx, VIA's DDR chipsets, and SiS all-in-ones. The riser approach just splits the digital MAC and analog PHY parts (data pump and physical interface) into two, reason: Mixed-signal chips are difficult to make, especially when it's a high integration part like a chipset south bridge or an all-in-one.
Onboard sound may be an onboard PCI chip, or an in-chipset digital engine that connects to an outside analog CODEC through AC97 bus(es) (see above for reason).
Again, one-piece or two-stage doesn't matter. However, there are both discrete sound chips and chipset-integrated sound engines that don't have their own brain, and have the CPU do all the work. Intel 8xx and VIA 686 south bridges have such stupidos, while SiS all-in-ones and VIA's newer 8231 and 8233 south bridges have intelligent 4-channel engines that are just as good and CPU cycle saving as your average sound card. As with LAN, when the south bridge part is on a faster bus, then chipset-integrated sound may even perform better than PCI sound.
Onboard modem, as do sound and LAN, yet again requires a digital engine and an analog CODEC and line interface. Performance depends on the engine, _but_ I have yet to see an onboard modem solution that isn't entirely software driven. Be it the popular C-Media 8738 PCI sound/modem chip or chipset integrated modem engines from VIA, SiS or Intel, they're all CPU hogs. Their _modem_ performance is good, surfing is just fine with them, but don't bother trying an online 3D game with those.
regards, Peter
Oh, wow, Peter, thanks for the detailed description! That's exactly the information I was looking for!
Sounds like for my purposes, Integrated Video is bad, integrated audio is DEFINITELY bad (as this is a music studio), but integrated LAN is good. Thanks again!
Sounds like for my purposes, Integrated Video is bad, integrated audio is DEFINITELY bad (as this is a music studio), but integrated LAN is good. Thanks again!
I don't know high tech stuff like the guy 2 above me But like I said I know from personal experience integrated LAN doesn't slow ya down. I said .01% which was wrong, probably should hjave said speed you up or raise +.01%. Bah I was close.
But like I said I know from personal experience integrated LAN doesn't slow ya down. I said .01% which was wrong, probably should hjave said speed you up or raise +.01%. Bah I was close.Caiwyn, well, if you're running a music studio there, then one flavor of onboard sound might actually be your best friend ...
Watch for C-Media 8738, that one has digital SPDIF In and Out right there on the chip, and some boards actually make use of it - like with PC-Chips boards where you can buy an extra slot bracket for co-ax and optical SPDIF in/out.
That chip is also available on cheap PCI cards in the $15 to $25 price range.
regards, Peter
Watch for C-Media 8738, that one has digital SPDIF In and Out right there on the chip, and some boards actually make use of it - like with PC-Chips boards where you can buy an extra slot bracket for co-ax and optical SPDIF in/out.
That chip is also available on cheap PCI cards in the $15 to $25 price range.
regards, Peter
Thanks again, Peter... that sounds very cool, although I think I'll stick with my SB Live Platinum. Granted, this is just a home studio machine, but the front inputs on the LiveDrive are a godsend for anyone who does a lot of audio work. Still, it's good to know there are some good integrated sound chipsets that provide better-than-average performance. I'll watch out for that next time I'm looking for cheaper solutions.
Granted, this is just a home studio machine, but the front inputs on the LiveDrive are a godsend for anyone who does a lot of audio work. Still, it's good to know there are some good integrated sound chipsets that provide better-than-average performance. I'll watch out for that next time I'm looking for cheaper solutions. TRENDING THREADS
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