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Insurgents Not Heroes to Iraqis

Insurgents Not Heroes to Iraqis

By Jim Garamone
American Forces Press Service

BAGHDAD, Iraq, Jan. 14, 2005 ? Any idea that the insurgency is a spontaneous rising of the Iraqi people is "hogwash," said a senior Multinational Force Iraq official here.

The insurgents are people who stand to lose if the Iraqi people choose freedom and democracy, the official told American Forces Press Service. "There are no illusions about the insurgents," he said. "The people know they are immoral, vicious animals who want only their own power."

The insurgents generally are die-hard members of the Baath Party. They are bankrolled out of funds stashed by Saddam Hussein and senior members of the party before the coalition entered Iraq.

"The good news is, those funds are drying up," said the official. "The bad news is, they don't need a lot of money to buy weapons. Iraq is littered with weapons and ammunition."

In addition to Iraqis, foreign fighters are operating in Iraq. Fugitive Jordanian terrorist Abu Musab al Zarqawi is the best known. His network has been responsible for some of the most heinous acts of violence against Iraqis and coalition soldiers. Zarqawi took "credit" for attacks on the U.N. compound, attacks against Kurds in northern Iraq and many of the attacks against Iraqi security forces.

Coalition officials said some foreign fighters are entering the country and assuming Iraqi identities. Marines in Fallujah uncovered a building loaded with clothes and identification cards used for that purpose.

The recent battles of Fallujah and Samarra were huge loses for the insurgents. However, small cells of mostly senior members managed to evade the Marines and soldiers at those battles. The leaders managed to begin operations elsewhere. MNFI officials said that is where the insurgents launching attacks in Mosul, for example, came from.

Officials estimate that in all of Iraq, there are between 10,000 and 14,000 dedicated, die-to-the-last-man insurgents. These men ? and they are mostly men ? rule through intimidation.

Almost every soldier or Marine here has a story about insurgent intimidation. In one, a pharmacist set up a small business cleaning the buildings at Camp Victory. He and his brother and three women journeyed daily onto the camp. One morning, insurgents stopped his vehicle and killed all of them.

In Fallujah, Marines discovered torture chambers where insurgents inflicted unspeakable pain on Fallujans. "We found corpses that were horribly mutilated," said a Marine. "If this were truly a popular uprising, these people would not have to do this."

But the insurgents do recruit, and they are finding a willing pool. This has nothing to do with philosophy, and everything to do with economics, officials said. Unemployment in the nation is high, and the insurgents will pay people to launch attacks on Iraqi security forces or the coalition. "If someone is supporting a family and there is no money coming in, then $200 a month from the insurgents starts looking pretty good," said an MNFI official.

So rebuilding Iraq, getting people work, getting food, water and medicine to the people and clearing sewage is just as much a part of the war against insurgents as "kinetic operations" ? actually killing or capturing them. "Take away the need, and you will take away the motivation for joining," said one official.

Another used the example of Sadr City ? the Shiia neighborhood in Baghdad. The coalition began a major project to deliver electricity and clean water to the city. It started in the eastern part of the city and worked west.

"You could see the number of incidents drop along the line of the project," he said. "The people didn't want insurgents taking away everything they had gained." Intelligence tips from the people in the city also increased, and Iraqi security forces and members of the 1st Cavalry Division were able to round up dozens of insurgents.

This is an example of affecting people where they live. Providing dependable and safe electricity in homes is almost more important than building new power plants, officials said. Iraqis typically wired their own homes and used everything from barbed wire to car-battery cables to tap into the electrical grid.

Water-borne diseases are a major killer in Iraq. Fixing the water distribution system to homes is almost more important than building new purification plants.

"People with raw sewage in their street or front yard don't want to clean up the Tigris, they want the sewage out of their yards," said an official. Making these type of changes in the daily life of average Iraqis will go a long way to destroying the insurgency, he said.

Officials expect the level of intimidation to increase as the Jan. 30 election approaches. To that end, the Iraqi interim government, Iraqi security forces and coalition forces are working to increase the level of security. Up to election day, coalition and Iraqi forces will continue operations targeting the insurgents, officials said.

On election day, the Iraqi security forces will provide security around the almost 6,000 polling places in the country. Coalition forces will provide a quick-reaction capability to incidents.

Too bad the insurgents are heros to some people here. 🙁

CsG
 
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Too bad the insurgents are heros to some people here. 🙁
CsG

What a shock. I hold firm to I don't care about the Iraqis or the insurgents, I care that not another us soldier dies for this bullsh!t war. Not one dead Americans soldiers life was worth any of this.

 
No crap they aren't heroes, they are ruining their country and killing their own people as well as American soldiers trying to help them.
 
Yeah it is sad some ppl assume insurgents are freedom fighters when the other 80% of the population don't agree at all with them.
 
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Too bad the insurgents are heros to some people here. 🙁

CsG
Too bad the liars in the White House are heros to others. 🙁

Nice "duhversion" Bow. Go figure - more trolling from Bowfinger tonight.

CsG
 
Like these fools know what is going on in country.
It is the regular armed forces who are risking everything to complete not a mission but to
carry out a pip dream. No matter what is done in country we will not prevail, the people aren't able to govern themselves, their military and police forces are nonething but a joke.
While our leadership are eyeing the elections to be the answer, our military forces continue to die and for what I ask?
 
I don't know what Iraqi's think. They probably have as many different opinions as Americans do.

I did notice "senior Multinational Force Iraq official".

Is he representitive? I don't know, but certainly biased.

It is a shame we set the stage for what is going on right now. Too bad.
 
I'm sure the Soviet propaganda machine spewed similar garbage to their people while their illegal occupation of Afghanistan was being eroded away by freedom fighters. It's unfortunate some people will understand that situation very well, but then when America does it to Iraq they get this brain clot which prevents them from understanding the similarity.
 
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Please. This is official military propaganda.

no its not. and if it were there isnt anything wrong with it. we should be greatful to the military

There wouldn't be anything wrong with propaganda? WTF does being greatfaul to the military have to do with wanting to get news from a source independent from the government? Let me break it down for you: if you were in 1930s Germany you'd have a very high chance of being a Nazi. You are not an independent human being but someone who simply follows what those above you tell you to do and think. Wake up. America was not started by an organized military with a propaganda machine. Do you have any comprehension of how a democracy work? Here's a hint: it's not based on official military news releases.
 
Zarqawi used to say USA was the evil country, satan etc

now he says that democracy is bad, that when people control a country its a bad thing

that god needs to control a country


the terrorists are changing their tune
 
People hear exactly what they want to hear, and with all due respect to both sides, neither side really seems interested in finding out the truth. Anti-Iraqi war people look to the insurgents as "Iraqis want us out" and pro-Iraq war people look at one guy (who works as part of or with our military) as "Iraqis love us and hate the insurgents". Everyone is making unfounded assumptions, from the silly thread title (what part of the article backs it up?) to the idea that the insurgency is proof our actions in Iraq are wrong.

What I find interesting about the whole thing is no one is willing to find out what's really going on. Obviously it shouldn't fall to P&N posters, but as much as people like raildogg admire propoganda (as long as it supports their beliefs), the truth, as it says on my college library, shall set you free. The only way we can figure out what really needs to be done is to find out what people in Iraq really think. But all we have is random anecdotes and assumptions from people who are simply trying to protect themselves from having to change their minds.
 
Originally posted by: Rainsford
People hear exactly what they want to hear, and with all due respect to both sides, neither side really seems interested in finding out the truth. Anti-Iraqi war people look to the insurgents as "Iraqis want us out" and pro-Iraq war people look at one guy (who works as part of or with our military) as "Iraqis love us and hate the insurgents". Everyone is making unfounded assumptions, from the silly thread title (what part of the article backs it up?) to the idea that the insurgency is proof our actions in Iraq are wrong.

What I find interesting about the whole thing is no one is willing to find out what's really going on. Obviously it shouldn't fall to P&N posters, but as much as people like raildogg admire propoganda (as long as it supports their beliefs), the truth, as it says on my college library, shall set you free. The only way we can figure out what really needs to be done is to find out what people in Iraq really think. But all we have is random anecdotes and assumptions from people who are simply trying to protect themselves from having to change their minds.

The problem is that people tend to tell people with guns just what they want to hear, and I don't believe it is possible to define who the Iraqis are. Sunni? Kurd? From Baghdad? Fallujah?

How can we know what they want, and does our govt. really care anyway?
 
Originally posted by: Condor
Too bad the liars in the White House are heros to others.




And you just loved these guys. Thought they were truly unbiased.

thread


At least it was a first hand source, an iraqi talking for iraqis. This is a spokesman speak for the people on the ground what he think the people on the ground think the iraqis are thinking.
 
Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Originally posted by: Rainsford
People hear exactly what they want to hear, and with all due respect to both sides, neither side really seems interested in finding out the truth. Anti-Iraqi war people look to the insurgents as "Iraqis want us out" and pro-Iraq war people look at one guy (who works as part of or with our military) as "Iraqis love us and hate the insurgents". Everyone is making unfounded assumptions, from the silly thread title (what part of the article backs it up?) to the idea that the insurgency is proof our actions in Iraq are wrong.

What I find interesting about the whole thing is no one is willing to find out what's really going on. Obviously it shouldn't fall to P&N posters, but as much as people like raildogg admire propoganda (as long as it supports their beliefs), the truth, as it says on my college library, shall set you free. The only way we can figure out what really needs to be done is to find out what people in Iraq really think. But all we have is random anecdotes and assumptions from people who are simply trying to protect themselves from having to change their minds.

The problem is that people tend to tell people with guns just what they want to hear, and I don't believe it is possible to define who the Iraqis are. Sunni? Kurd? From Baghdad? Fallujah?

How can we know what they want, and does our govt. really care anyway?

Fair enough, I don't know how we can know what they want. I'm not even sure it's possible to find one voice, I suspect Iraq is much like anywhere else, people want very different things. And no, I don't think our gov't (or most anyone else) really cares anyways.

But what really bothers me is that with all this complexity going on, most people don't even make an effort to understand it or even think about it, instead opting for slogans and simplistic viewpoints. I think that will impede any kind of peace in Iraq, because at the end of the day we're going to have to satisfy MOST of the poeple there, and I'm not sure that's happening yet.

Edit: This thread is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. One Iraqi with unknown credibility says that nobody likes the insurgents, and suddenly people latch on to that and take it as evidence that the insurgents don't represent any major part of Iraq. Not because the explanation or information was particularly credible, but because it fit with what they already thought.
 
Seem's that people fail to realize that the insurgents can only operate unless they recieve support and aide from the local populace. There is no other way for an insurgency to have lasted this long with out support from Iraqis. I won't even comment on the bias news source.
 
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