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Insurgency lacks ingredients for success

maluckey

Platinum Member
interesting POV OP/ED

This particular insurgency is not supported by the majority of Iraqi, and for the most part is funded and supported by foreigners. It is most unfortunate though, that the local majority is too frightened to do anything about this, and the Iraqi govt. isn't yet strong enough to defy the Muslim leaders edicts.
 
The issue is that a few foreign psychopaths have run rampant and the govt. cannot do or say anything too extreme for fear of reprisal. It's not Vietnam, it's the inmates running the asylum. Some heads will need to be cracked to send a message of strength. Bargaining from weakness only encourages them.

There was a line from "Braveheart". I paraphrase it, but after Willaim wins a few large skirmishes, Longshanks mulls who to send to talk to William and try to negotiate with him. He thinks about his own Gay son, but says "No, that will only encourage him..."

It must be the same with the new govt. They must act quickly, firmly and decisively. Any other way, and they will likely encourage the insurgents to more acts of murder and mayhem.
 
Originally posted by: maluckey
interesting POV OP/ED

This particular insurgency is not supported by the majority of Iraqi, and for the most part is funded and supported by foreigners. It is most unfortunate though, that the local majority is too frightened to do anything about this, and the Iraqi govt. isn't yet strong enough to defy the Muslim leaders edicts.
Lack ingredients for success? Apparently Rumsfeld doesn't share your views: Link
 
How many heads need to be cracked? Multiple missions have been carried out with that very idea in mind, yet the insurgency continues to grow.
 
The rebels lack a unifying organization, ideology, and leader
as soon as I read this i knew the guy is a tool. How about "get the fusk out of my country" Idealogy? That would be enough for me, foreign assholes bashing my door down, torturing my friends, pointing automatic weaons at me in my own country etc etc... how about you?
 
Originally posted by: Zebo
The rebels lack a unifying organization, ideology, and leader
as soon as I read this i knew the guy is a tool. How about "get the fusk out of my country" Idealogy? That would be enough for me, foreign assholes bashing my door down, torturing my friends, pointing automatic weaons at me in my own country etc etc... how about you?

No kidding. The Brits were kicked out for simply imposing a Tax. The Brits were also the most Advanced and most Powerful Nation of that age, yet the American Colonists saw fit to reject all that for something relatively Minor.
 
Originally posted by: maluckey
The issue is that a few foreign psychopaths have run rampant and the govt. cannot do or say anything too extreme for fear of reprisal. It's not Vietnam, it's the inmates running the asylum. Some heads will need to be cracked to send a message of strength. Bargaining from weakness only encourages them.

There was a line from "Braveheart". I paraphrase it, but after Willaim wins a few large skirmishes, Longshanks mulls who to send to talk to William and try to negotiate with him. He thinks about his own Gay son, but says "No, that will only encourage him..."

It must be the same with the new govt. They must act quickly, firmly and decisively. Any other way, and they will likely encourage the insurgents to more acts of murder and mayhem.

Do you listen to yourself? This is exactly what's going on right now...head cracking by itself does not seem to be the solution. Part of the problem is that it's not "a few foreign psychopaths", I would suspect (and media reports bear this out) that a significant number of the insurgents are Iraqis. Not the majority Shiites, I would think, but probably Sunnis and Baathists especially.

This problem doesn't have a simple solution, ringing up Bruce Willis and Mel Gibson to go over there are shoot some bad guys might sound cool, but that will not solve the problem. It is a necessary part of the fight, but there needs to be some plan here.
 
Head cracking? Firm & decisive action? I respectfully disagree... the Iraqi fighters & friends have proven they are absolutely willing to fight to the death. They will sacrifice
100's to kill 1. We can not win; we can't even play for a tie..... we are beaten. They only get stronger as US's will is broken. I think the numbers $1 trillion spent & 5,000 dead will result in the white flag being raised over the US embassy.
 
Originally posted by: sandorski
How many heads need to be cracked? Multiple missions have been carried out with that very idea in mind, yet the insurgency continues to grow.


Good question. This is the classic right-wing approach to ideological wars. Witness, for example, the "war on drugs".

Righties alway respond to the failure of their hopeless causes by essentially arguing, "This cause we've been fighting has been a hopeless failure. Therefore, we should commit even more resources to the cause."
 
Insurgency lacks ingredients for success

well so far they seem to be pretty successful at killing people. I bet Americans spin the suicide car bomber into a new reality show on how to deliver dominos pizza's in under 2mins, or your car gets blown to smithereens
 
Originally posted by: Zebo
The rebels lack a unifying organization, ideology, and leader
as soon as I read this i knew the guy is a tool. How about "get the fusk out of my country" Idealogy? That would be enough for me, foreign assholes bashing my door down, torturing my friends, pointing automatic weaons at me in my own country etc etc... how about you?

Consider the source, heh. Christian Science Monitor is certainly going to be an accurate, unbiased source of facts.
 
We've been cracking heads for over two years now and what has changed mr. tough guy? Have the insurgents backed off or are they getting more efficient and lethal? Don't you read the fvcking paper? How many times have we cleared through Fallujah? He!!, even a general was on the front page saying our military can't beat the insurgency! All we can do is wait for the new government to finish the constitution, phase our guys out of there, and pray. No more of this, "we're not using enough force", and no more sugar-coating. I'm gonna get diabetes. Why don't you explain your Braveheart analogy to a marine? How much of a recto-cranial inversion does it take for people to remain so sedated and willfully ignorant?
 
Rumsfield says it may now take 12 years to defeat the insurgency. Wow, the timeline keeps growing on this "unsuccessful" group! :roll:
 
Gigantopithecus,

The CSM is one of the most respected and least biased news organizations running. Do your own research and stop seeing the word Christian and going into full hate mode.



As far as busting heads, I never mentioned anything about the U.S. busting heads did I?

I said that the govt (the Iraqis) needs to bust heads and stop bowing to the Muslim clerics and their influence. That's part of the issue. Muslim clerics do not speak out against suicide, or killing ones own countrymen with any believable rhetoric. You can bust heads without killing anyone. You do this by eliminating the source of the insurgency. You also stop the foreign interference by cracking down on the bordering states and tightening travel accross the borders until you can get a handle on the situation. You stop the influx of weapons by this method as well. You can also begin an aggressive vehicle registration campaign to avoid not being able to track car bomb owners, which at the moment is very difficult because of the antiquated record keeping sytems. The govt can also go after the money of the organizations by freezing all assets of suspected leaders of the insurgents, and the assests of the families that they belong to. It is within their legal rights in Iraq to do so, but is rarely done.

Rainsford,

The vast majority of Insurgents are non-Iraqi. Their leaders are non-Iraqi, and their organizational funding and backing is most all non-Iraqi. Not only does the media back this up, but the death toll and and makeup of actual dead insurgents backs this up.
 
Consider the source, heh. Christian Science Monitor is certainly going to be an accurate, unbiased source of facts.

Why do we have to go over this every time...

The CSM is one of the most respected publications in the world. Has been for a long time. Just because the name scares you does not mean that it is not a good publication. Intelligent people on all sides will agree with this.

I however, doubt you have ever bothered to read anything in it.

They also happen to be about the only group on the streets in Iraq doing real reporting. Big surprise, the CSM and Fox news are the only ones with real reporters living and working outside of the Green Zone. The rest of the 'respected' media simply buys reports from the cheapest source.

About the only thing this war has in common with Vietnam. Lazy reporters buying news from the enemy.
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
95% of the insurgents are Iraqi thanks to the chimp.

And the other"5%" are the instigators.

Also, how many of the 95% are previous Saddam people that can not stand being out of power?

 
Moonbeam,

If the media is correct, then less than half of the insurgents are Iraqi. ALL of heir leaders are foreign. Where do you get your statistics???
 
Originally posted by: maluckey
The issue is that a few foreign psychopaths have run rampant and the govt. cannot do or say anything too extreme for fear of reprisal. It's not Vietnam, it's the inmates running the asylum. Some heads will need to be cracked to send a message of strength. Bargaining from weakness only encourages them.

There was a line from "Braveheart". I paraphrase it, but after Willaim wins a few large skirmishes, Longshanks mulls who to send to talk to William and try to negotiate with him. He thinks about his own Gay son, but says "No, that will only encourage him..."

It must be the same with the new govt. They must act quickly, firmly and decisively. Any other way, and they will likely encourage the insurgents to more acts of murder and mayhem.


Which was pretty much the response of many during and about the VN war. Ahh, memories.
 
Originally posted by: irwincur
Consider the source, heh. Christian Science Monitor is certainly going to be an accurate, unbiased source of facts.

Why do we have to go over this every time...

The CSM is one of the most respected publications in the world. Has been for a long time. Just because the name scares you does not mean that it is not a good publication. Intelligent people on all sides will agree with this.

I however, doubt you have ever bothered to read anything in it.

They also happen to be about the only group on the streets in Iraq doing real reporting. Big surprise, the CSM and Fox news are the only ones with real reporters living and working outside of the Green Zone. The rest of the 'respected' media simply buys reports from the cheapest source.

About the only thing this war has in common with Vietnam. Lazy reporters buying news from the enemy.
The lefties in here would rather trust their news from "unbiased" places like the Guardian.

Isn't the lack of bias in that story just incredible? What a great headline:

Iraq insurgents snatch victory from defeat

"The combination of heavy shelling, diversionary feints, infantry thrusts and suicide vehicles - the "precision-guided" equivalent of tanks - left parts of the district of Hi al-Elam a smoking ruin. If the objective was to overrun the station and free its prisoners the offensive failed. The attackers retreated after two hours, leaving dozens dead and captured. But if the objective was to send a message of power and determination it succeeded."

"The attackers retreated at around 7.30am. At least 10 were killed and 40 captured."

"Lt Col Funk worried about similarities to the Tet offensive, a 1968 push by North Vietnamese forces which failed militarily but whose scale and surprise gave the impression that the US and its allies were failing. "The media got Tet wrong and they're getting Iraq wrong. We are winning but people won't know that if all they are hearing about is death and violence."

-----------

The insurgents got whacked and rebuffed, yet they've somehow snatched victory from defeat. Is the Guardian trying to claim that their tactic of spreading intimidation and fear is working? Well it sure doesn't seem like it's working since, as the article mentions:

"Residents of the mixed Shia and Sunni neighbourhood made at least 55 phone calls informing the police of insurgent movements. Some fired on the attackers. "

Yeah, sounds like they're really intimidated. :roll:

But the usuals will allow that kind of BS bias to slide while hammering on Fox or any other site that doens't spread the doom & gloom prognositications of the lefty sheeple.

And the MSM loves to harp on the numbers of dead Iraqi civilians and while shruging off the numbers of dead and captured insurgents.

http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/

Now after you have probably listened to our losses through the media, I'd like to carry the news of their losses?I hate to parrot what others say.
It's not only us who bleed, they're bleeding too end even more profusely and obviously the media has a purpose behind focusing on our losses while mentioning the terrorists losses in the inner pages or in many cases pretending that they don?t exist.
Iraqi and multinational forces are still scoring victories over terrorists and here on this blog, we'd like to summarize the victories of the latest 48 hours:

-1st regiment/2nd commandoes brigade arrested 43 suspects in Al-Doura district while the 2nd regiment/1st brigade arrested 2 terrorists in Shu'la district.

-The interior ministry announced the beginning of operation lightning-1 in Babil province which is going to be a joint effort between the Army and the local police forces. The 1st wave of raids resulted in arresting 43 suspects and confiscating 10 vehicles used in terror attacks against Iraqi civilians and security forces.

-A force from the Iraqi army backed by Polish troops raided terrorists hides in the areas of Jibla and Rashad in the same province and arrested 8 terrorists and confiscated their Ak-47's.

-Police forces in Kerbala arrested 20 terrorists and confiscated 6 suspicious vehicles and disarmed 2 vehicle-born bombs.

-In Zangora area near Ramadi, Iraqi and American troops arrested a terror cell leader named 'Jbair Grayen Al-Jiblawi who's one of Zarqawi's aides in Anbar province.

-In the north, 3 members of the Ansar Al-Sunna army were captured in Mosul; one of the 3 terrorists carried a Saudi ID.

-In Tikrit, multinational forces arrested 3 roadside bombs-makers and in Kirkuk 10 suspects were arrested. The men are supposed to be responsible for some missile attacks in the city.
Explosives' ingredients and blast capsules were found during the search of the arrest scene.

-In Abu Ghraib, Al-Muthana brigade arrested 19 terrorists and found amounts of weapons and detonation devices as well as vehicles that were prepared for performing terror attacks.

-In Al-Kasra neighborhood in Baghdad, IP men and American explosives experts failed an attack with a car bomb that was parked in the heavily crowded main commercial street in the district.
A shop keeper was suspicious of a car that was left in front of his shop, the driver claimed that the car broke and that he's going to find a mechanic but the shop keeper didn't believe the story and called the police and it was found later that the car contained a large bomb that was a mix of artillery shells, TNT rods and gas containers.
By 1 am, the area was evacuated and people were told to keep a distance from the car. The explosives experts detonated the car in its place as it was impossible to move it away. No casualties happened but there was some inevitable material loss in adjacent shops.

-In Tal-afar near Mosul, Iraqi and American troops killed 15 terrorists in clashes that took place yesterday.

-Police patrols in Dibis town arrested two terrorists while they were trying to plant a roadside bomb on the main street in the town.

-One of the most important successes was arresting one of Izzat Al-Douri's relatives along with 3 of his bodyguards.

-Iraqi TV announced Khalid Sulaiman Darwis (aka Abu Al-Ghadia Al-Soori) was killed during a raid as part of Operation Spear in Anbar province.
The Syrian terrorist is one of the leaders of al-Qaeda in Iraq.


Sources: Iraqia TV, Al-Sabah, New Sabah and Al-Mada papers.

Who thinks that a war can be won without losses and sacrifices is far from reason.
Yes, sacrifices, efforts, time and costs are all factors that make us seriously worried but we have to remind ourselves that abandoning the mission before it's fully done would be a disaster for all of us.

I'm positive that Iraqis have no intention of giving up and so do their allies and friends while those who think that our position is weak are actually allowing lies and illusions to control their thinking and were driven away from the larger image by the narrow image provided by the media.
The future is ours, there's no doubt about that and we shall win.
But, of course, Mohammed is only an Iraqi in Baghdad. What does he know in comparison to all the pundits in ATP&N?
 
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