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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
25,149
4,653
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At the risk of going OT, I was giving examples of this schism earlier in the thread. Another... is Joe Biden innocent or guilty of a quid pro quo, similar to what Trump is accused of? The answer absolutely depends on which party you ask. ...
You don't ask the parties. You examine the available evidence.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
26,455
5,889
136
At the risk of going OT, I was giving examples of this schism earlier in the thread. Another... is Joe Biden innocent or guilty of a quid pro quo, similar to what Trump is accused of? The answer absolutely depends on which party you ask. There are so many subjects where "judging why something is factual or not" does not happen and 10s of millions of American voters just don't find it "hard", they simply do not do it. Americans are largely losing the capacity to discern fact from fiction. To know what reality is.

Then again, I'd argue that humans in general were never "in touch" with reality. It is just that Americans were once more unified in education and news.

Propaganda and misinformation is so strong, because humans are relying on others for first hand information. And now the answers there depend on who you ask. A lot of what we face is going to deal in conflicting or missing information. Of one person calling another's source "fake news". That is supposed to be easy to wade through? Maybe in an educational or scientific setting. Where methods are agreed upon and carried out to examine information and piece together only the pertinent string of facts. I suppose it's easy if we can all agree on a scientific method of handling information. I don't picture P&N going there.

Then again, we are assured that the additional policy is only for the most troubling cases. I just don't know how we can discern trolls from political opponents, given modern America.
Your examples are opinion based. Next?
 
Feb 4, 2009
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@Perknose what are we/you going to do when the President starts spewing election bullshit.
For example:
People are saying Ted Cruz’s Dad was nowhere to be found during the Kennedy assasination

or

Lots of people are saying (insert any candidate) knows pedophiles who own a pizza shop


This isn’t meant to be a trick question, we both know it’s going to come up. When the bullshit is coming from the President and it is not based upon any facts what are you going to do?
 

CHADBOGA

Golden Member
Mar 31, 2009
1,961
523
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@Perknose what are we/you going to do when the President starts spewing election bullshit.
For example:
People are saying Ted Cruz’s Dad was nowhere to be found during the Kennedy assasination

or

Lots of people are saying (insert any candidate) knows pedophiles who own a pizza shop


This isn’t meant to be a trick question, we both know it’s going to come up. When the bullshit is coming from the President and it is not based upon any facts what are you going to do?
Do you really think the BS will only be coming from one side only?

TDS?
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
25,149
4,653
126
@Perknose what are we/you going to do when the President starts spewing election bullshit.
For example:
People are saying Ted Cruz’s Dad was nowhere to be found during the Kennedy assasination

or

Lots of people are saying (insert any candidate) knows pedophiles who own a pizza shop


This isn’t meant to be a trick question, we both know it’s going to come up. When the bullshit is coming from the President and it is not based upon any facts what are you going to do?
Wat? What do you expect the mods here to do about our President lying? I don't think Trump cares about forum infractions.
 
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Feb 4, 2009
24,446
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Wat? What do you expect the mods here to do about our President lying? I don't think Trump cares about forum infractions.
More like what action will be taken when a thread about Ted Cruz’s Dad killing Kennedy which is obviously false and obviously no credible information to back it up other than the President stating it.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
30,694
1,820
126
Do you really think the BS will only be coming from one side only?

TDS?
YES! My observable opinion ever since I started posting on these forums says that 9 out of 10 times. this will come from only one side!!
To narrow this down even further , it is usually only small handful who resort to this.
It has also been my observation that the same handful of people are also the same who will post a misleading and inaacurate thread title just to cause trouble or to think they are proving a point!
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,323
1,354
126
I’m confused on how this has turned from new forum rules about verbal abuse and personal attacks to now somehow being new rules about what’s perceived as “inaccurate” information. Truth, especially in politics, is less black and white than many I think would like to admit and banning people because of disagreements with them seems to be contrary to the intent of a discussion forum I would think.
 
Nov 25, 2013
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I’m confused on how this has turned from new forum rules about verbal abuse and personal attacks to now somehow being new rules about what’s perceived as “inaccurate” information. Truth, especially in politics, is less black and white than many I think would like to admit and banning people because of disagreements with them seems to be contrary to the intent of a discussion forum I would think.
It's not about disagreements and you know that. It's about the constant repetition of known lies by certain forum participants and you know that as well.
 
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UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,323
1,354
126
It's not about disagreements and you know that. It's about the constant repetition of known lies by certain forum participants and you know that as well.

Like I said things aren’t black and white, especially in politics (and you know that). And what does it matter that they do, call them out and show them they’re wrong. Or let them keep believing whatever it is you consider to be a lie. Banning people over it though and trying to constantly moderate the discussion over not just the tone but also what you perceive to be the truth or not is a great way to grind the discussions on here to a screeching halt.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,101
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Like I said things aren’t black and white, especially in politics (and you know that). And what does it matter that they do, call them out and show them they’re wrong. Or let them keep believing whatever it is you consider to be a lie. Banning people over it though and trying to constantly moderate the discussion over not just the tone but also what you perceive to be the truth or not is a great way to grind the discussions on here to a screeching halt.
No, it's about the deliberate lies that are being constantly repeated and please stop pretending that you don't understand this.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,323
1,354
126
Even if they are deliberately lying which you don’t have any way of knowing what does it matter? Simply ignore them or tell them they’re wrong or post a link showing why etc. And again things are not black and white, so you may think they are lying when they don’t see it that way.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,101
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Even if they are deliberately lying which you don’t have any way of knowing what does it matter? Simply ignore them or tell them they’re wrong or post a link showing why etc. And again things are not black and white, so you may think they are lying when they don’t see it that way.
One last time: No, it's about the deliberate lies that are being constantly repeated and please stop pretending that you don't understand this.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,323
1,354
126
I’m not pretending I don’t understand anything. This is a great example, you think I’m lying because I’m not in agreement with you. I fully understand what you’re saying, but as I’ve said above if you truly do think that person is deliberately lying then simply ignore them, tell them, refute it, etc. But trying to dive into their psyche to figure out their underlying motives is an impossible feat and can be used to stifle discussion on this discussion forum.

And again things that you think may be black and white rarely turn out to be so simple, especially in politics. We shouldn’t be trying to regulate “truth” and “motives” on here. That’s what discussion is for, not rules and bans.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,101
11,713
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I’m not pretending I don’t understand anything. This is a great example, you think I’m lying because I’m not in agreement with you. I fully understand what you’re saying, but as I’ve said above if you truly do think that person is deliberately lying then simply ignore them, tell them, refute it, etc. But trying to dive into their psyche to figure out their underlying motives is an impossible feat and can be used to stifle discussion on this discussion forum.

And again things that you think may be black and white rarely turn out to be so simple, especially in politics. We shouldn’t be trying to regulate “truth” and “motives” on here. That’s what discussion is for, not rules and bans.
Go find someone else to play with. I'm not interested.
 

HurleyBird

Golden Member
Apr 22, 2003
1,986
412
136
In light of our newly imposed dictum against insults, I have felt compelled now twice to sanction posters of whom it was 1000% clear they posting in absolute bad faith, going so far in this last instance as to claim a thoroughly proven lie as fact.
Any links for these two instances? It would nice to be able to see actual, real world examples of what crosses the line.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
30,694
1,820
126
You see there does not need to be any links to anything!! Most people know if something is true or not or for that matter being taken out of context! It is insincere or shall we say less than honeast to post something that you as an individual actually know ids a lie or misleading yet you still post it because you can always say -- Opps I didn`t know is was a lie.....
It does not take a rocke3t scientist to know what the word bad faith means just as it does not take much to know that if you heard something from Fox 9 times out of 10 it is something that even FOX knows is wrong but they twist it to meet their agenda!!
 

imported_tajmahal

Diamond Member
Jul 9, 2009
8,851
942
136
"Ah, but i was so much older then, i'm younger than that now" - Bob Dylan - My Back Pages

I wish I could be so sure of what is absolutely true and what is not, but i can't. A few links or examples would help clarify it to me. Thank you.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
30,694
1,820
126
"Ah, but i was so much older then, i'm younger than that now" - Bob Dylan - My Back Pages

I wish I could be so sure of what is absolutely true and what is not, but i can't. A few links or examples would help clarify it to me. Thank you.
Way too funny!! Just go back through P&N. what can be so hard about that??
Look for thread our favorite arachnid started...lol
 

crashtech

Diamond Member
Jan 4, 2013
9,512
1,413
126
There will be no struggle for control of the narrative here. Facts will be what the ruling consensus determines them to be.
 
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crashtech

Diamond Member
Jan 4, 2013
9,512
1,413
126
“And if all others accepted the narrative which P&N imposed—if all records told the same tale—then the narrative passed into history and became truth. ‘Who controls the past’ ran the P&N slogan, ‘controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.'”
 
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