Instrument cluster replacement. What's the legal way.

[cmf21]

My father lives in Arizona and his instrument cluster needs to be replaced or repaired on his Toyota 4runner. It has a bad diode or two wrecking havoc with the electrical system, headlights, engine, and transmission. I've called around and no one apparently works on Toyota instrument clusters. Only option is to replace it with a used one.

I'll be doing this myself and want to make sure I do it the legal way. Do I need to put some sort of sticker on the door about the replacement or do I have to go to a dealer to have this done?

 

[IcePickFreak]

It varies state to state so I'd check with the Arizona DMV.

Just doing a quick google search looks like they don't require stickers or anything, just disclosure, which the same as what they do here. The best route in that case would be to set the new odometer to match the existing one in the car. Otherwise you'll just check the proper box on the title form (when selling, unless he just want to update it sooner) that it is not the actual mileage (usually states "Odometer discrepancy".) In that case I'd just document everything when swapping out the cluster as far as old and new mileage, put it in a contract statement and have it notarized just so in the future if he decides to sell it there is documentation to define the "odometer discrepancy."

Definitely double check with the Arizona DMV first though to make sure they don't have more specific guidelines. Seems all states DMV website are lacking in detail or outdated

 

[kornphlake]

depending on the age of the cluster you may not have to do anything, newer electronic odometers are just a display, the actual mileage is stored in the ECU, changing the IC should not affect the mileage displayed.

 

[heymrdj]

depending on the age of the cluster you may not have to do anything, newer electronic odometers are just a display, the actual mileage is stored in the ECU, changing the IC should not affect the mileage displayed.

This, if it's an old mechanical style it may or may not be ECU driven. If it's digital its 99% a display from ECU information.

 

[exdeath]

Depends on the system. A lot of cars the instrument cluster and ECU are tightly integrated due to anti theft, etc, making it a pain to swap one or the other individually. An all digital instrument cluster is more than capable of storing mileage itself and using the ECU only for speed input from the speed sensor, all depends on the design.

 

[cmf21]

Car is a 2000 4runner. The 10 yr odometer / cluster thing is just up. We got the run around today trying to find someone who would work on this. No one works on Toyota clusters and no one can help. I'm going to just swap it out and have a call into the dmv inspectors to see if they can give me an answer.


About 10yrs ago, my parents had a similiar problem in Missouri when they swaped a cluster out and the dmv gave them hell.

 

[alexruiz]

depending on the age of the cluster you may not have to do anything, newer electronic odometers are just a display, the actual mileage is stored in the ECU, changing the IC should not affect the mileage displayed.

Newer cars store the odometer value in at least 2 modules, cluster and ECM, and in some cases even the BCM. When replacing one of them, a diagnostics routine for handshake is required ("seed and key") to have the replaced module learn data about the car, being the odometer value one of them if applicable.

For a 2000 toyota 4runner, I would say it is mechanical without backup.

 

[cmf21]

Everything on it is mechanical except the odometer with is digital.

 

[LTC8K6]

My 08 Jeep GC stopped counting the miles on a trip one time. I was headed back home on I-40 Westbound. Went to pass a car. The moment I turned on the left turn signal, pretty much everything electrical quit working. Apparently, the CAN bus controller had a seizure. Almost nothing worked on the dash, and all sorts of error messages were on the EVIC display. I had no gauges except the fuel gauge. The left turn signal indicator was stuck on. The instrument lights were stuck on full bright. I think the only button that worked was the hazard light button. Pretty much anything I could reach did not work.

The hemi was still going strong, and the head and tail lights were stuck on. I was about 100 miles from home. I decided that since the engine was running, and the lights were on, I had better just get on home before trying to fix anything. I was concerned that if I stopped and turned the key off, it wouldn't start again. The odometer was frozen at whatever it read when everything quit.

So, I got out my Garmin to use as a speedometer, and kept on going. As night fell, the instrument lighting was a big problem. So, I got an envelope out of the glovebox and stuck it in front of the panel.

Well, I got back to my office okay and decided to stop there. Pissed off a few people with my lack of operating turn signals, but oh well...

I shut the car off, went in and went to the bathroom, had a drink, etc. Came back out and noticed that the left turn signal indicator on the dash was still stuck on, even without anything turned on, and the alarm was inop. Weird.

Knowing that this was a CAN bus vehicle, I figured that this must be the network controller.

I had read somewhere that the only way to reset the CAN bus controller was to disconnect the battery.

Since I had a company car I could drive, I decided to disconnect the Jeep's battery for a few minutes to see what would happen.

When I re-connected the battery, everything returned to normal. Just like it never happened.

The mileage on the odometer was still the same. It had not counted those 100+ miles, and the display did not update after the "reset".

So, are those miles recorded elsewhere in the Jeep?

 

[alexruiz]

My 08 Jeep GC stopped counting the miles on a trip one time. I was headed back home on I-40 Westbound. Went to pass a car. The moment I turned on the left turn signal, pretty much everything electrical quit working. Apparently, the CAN bus controller had a seizure. Almost nothing worked on the dash, and all sorts of error messages were on the EVIC display. I had no gauges except the fuel gauge. The left turn signal indicator was stuck on. The instrument lights were stuck on full bright. I think the only button that worked was the hazard light button. Pretty much anything I could reach did not work.

The hemi was still going strong, and the head and tail lights were stuck on. I was about 100 miles from home. I decided that since the engine was running, and the lights were on, I had better just get on home before trying to fix anything. I was concerned that if I stopped and turned the key off, it wouldn't start again. The odometer was frozen at whatever it read when everything quit.

So, I got out my Garmin to use as a speedometer, and kept on going. As night fell, the instrument lighting was a big problem. So, I got an envelope out of the glovebox and stuck it in front of the panel.

Well, I got back to my office okay and decided to stop there. Pissed off a few people with my lack of operating turn signals, but oh well...

I shut the car off, went in and went to the bathroom, had a drink, etc. Came back out and noticed that the left turn signal indicator on the dash was still stuck on, even without anything turned on, and the alarm was inop. Weird.

Knowing that this was a CAN bus vehicle, I figured that this must be the network controller.

I had read somewhere that the only way to reset the CAN bus controller was to disconnect the battery.

Since I had a company car I could drive, I decided to disconnect the Jeep's battery for a few minutes to see what would happen.

When I re-connected the battery, everything returned to normal. Just like it never happened.

The mileage on the odometer was still the same. It had not counted those 100+ miles, and the display did not update after the "reset".

So, are those miles recorded elsewhere in the Jeep?

Interesting failure mode.

I don't know how Chrysler manages the HS-CAN bus failure (short, open, etc) but it is typical to have exterior lights (headlamps, parklamps ON) and ECM keep working. I suggest to grab your code reader and pull DTC (error codes) but DO not clear anything.

If under warranty, take it to the dealer and give them notice in advance that someone from engineering should be present. This kind of failure should be extremely rare, and I am sure the folks at Chrysler engineering would kill to have the chance to inspect a vehicle that exhibited this kind of issue.

For the "lost" miles, it depends on a few factors. Who is master of the odometer? If the cluster is, then the miles are lost as once it recovered, whatever the ECM recorded will be overwrote by the cluster data. It could also happen that even if the ECM is the odometer master, the grand cherokee might use a wheel speed sensor that transmits data on the CAN bus and then calculates the vehicle speed. If the bus is down, obviously there is no speed transmitted. A lot of scenarios, but I would say yes, the miles are "lost"



Alex

 

[LTC8K6]

I have kicked myself a number of times for disconnecting the battery and not allowing the dealer to see the vehicle as it was. I know now how unusual the failure is, but I did not know at the time. It was the first CAN bus vehicle I had owned and I just chalked it up to the overcomplexity of newer vehicles and was glad that it returned to normal.

So, the dealer never saw the vehicle, unfortunately. I still own it. It only has 11K miles on it and it has never acted up since.

I had a scangauge2 with me too...

 

[alexruiz]

I have kicked myself a number of times for disconnecting the battery and not allowing the dealer to see the vehicle as it was. I know now how unusual the failure is, but I did not know at the time. It was the first CAN bus vehicle I had owned and I just chalked it up to the overcomplexity of newer vehicles and was glad that it returned to normal.

So, the dealer never saw the vehicle, unfortunately. I still own it. It only has 11K miles on it and it has never acted up since.

I had a scangauge2 with me too...

Some codes are stored as history for up to 50 ign cycles. The battery disconnect will NOT erase them as they are stored in E2ROM.

 

[cmf21]

I guess there was a code after all. My father said there was none but when he brought home the paper work it saide code p1780 Park Neutral Circuit Failure. It then tells the repair person to trace voltage backfeeding through the instrument cluster.

I'm thinking maybe the cluster isn't bad after all but a faulty park neutral switch causing his problems.