Instant Hot Water Dispensers

[zinfamous]

Hey all,

I'm currently redoing my kitchen in stages--have some counter guys working on pricing and will install new quartz countertops for me, but the rest I plan to do myself (tiles, "new" island, virgin hardwood that I need to reclaim and finish from beneath the garbage vinyl tiles that some jackass glued on), and have the new faucet and sink on the way.

I'm trying to decide on instant hot water dispensers, as it's something I've always wanted. I'm not finding a lot of good reviews (mostly advertising garbage that disguises itself as product reviews, you know what I mean), so I'm wondering if any of you have longterm experience, either good or bad, and have tips or specific warnings.

I'm currently looking at this one from Insinkerator....I guess most of them are insinkerator, and so it's hard to compare among diverse options.

I've learned that tanks with rubber bladders tend to have higher failure rates, to probably stick to stainless steel tanks and that, no matter what, these things have a pretty high failure rate within a year, anyway, so it's hard to make a solid choice, based on ~honest reviews. Though I'm not sure if that's usually just user error.

My main use would be for instant clean/sterlization--rinse dish immediately after use = clean. I have a dishwasher, but I don't like using it. I'm not a high demand dishes person, so I only run it once ~ 2 weeks. And I don't do a lot of sink washing, it just slowly accumulates because I do a lot of reuse between washes. Also, I just don't trust my dishwasher.
So, that, and quick single cups of coffee, noodles, things like that.

So...any "run away in terror now!" stories or "buy it now! the ladies will toss their panties at you when you install one!" type of advice?

...I will also need to replace both the hot water and cold water undersink valves (hot is actually not cutting off all the flow when it is closed), and was thinking 2 dual-outlet valves, and adding a T-junction to the cold water outlet valve shared between dishwasher and this (potential) hot water dispenser. ....my water pipes are copper and I was thinking of going with compression fittings for new valves--that is standard, right? Much of the water pipes are exposed in the basement, and I've replaced a few myself, learning how to solder and all that, but outlet valves are typically attached with compression fittings? I sometimes worry about the solders on my pipes because they are...I don't know how old, and I have experienced waterhammer, some weird flow problems from time to time (I think I discovered the errors that I made the last time hammer happened--just not properly emptying some of the toilets/sinks when I was working on pipes and the water was off).

....any further advice on hardware for this? I want to make sure I get the proper valve for the hot water outlet, making sure it's rated for long-term hot water flow...assuming there is a relevant difference. I always thought there was...

 

[herm0016]

there is no difference in valves for hot and cold. yes compression is pretty standard. some houses have pipe thread also. go with 1/4 turn valves, much more reliable than old style ones. I usually just use the shark bite stuff.

 

[zinfamous]

there is no difference in valves for hot and cold. yes compression is pretty standard. some houses have pipe thread also. go with 1/4 turn valves, much more reliable than old style ones. I usually just use the shark bite stuff.

ah OK, that's good to know. the valves I have currently are the "1100 degree" turn valves, or whatever you would call it. I didn't know that there were issues with those compared to 1/4 turn

 

[Viper GTS]

I put one in a little over a year ago. No issues so far. This one specifically:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000X17A9U/

I did not do enough research ahead of time to determine there were rubber and stainless options, but it seems I lucked into stainless.

I have a water softener for the entire house plus an RO filter under the same sink, so I use the cold side of the faucet for RO water and the hot side for hot RO. Works great, the wife loves it. We have completely quit buying bottled water because we now have tap water that tastes like it came from a bottle.

This RO:

Brondell Circle Reverse Osmosis System, Under Sink, Black – 4 Stage RO Water Designer Chrome Faucet– Quick Change Filter, WQA Gold Seal-Certified - - Amazon.com

Brondell Circle Reverse Osmosis System, Under Sink, Black – 4 Stage RO Water Designer Chrome Faucet– Quick Change Filter, WQA Gold Seal-Certified - - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

Totaled around $600 for both, I did not pay current prices.

I have no specific evidence for this but it seems logical to me that using RO water could only help with the lifespan. I had a plumber install the whole setup for mine and he basically said the same - Typically 1-2 year lifespan, softened/RO water likely helps. If you are comfortable doing that kind of stuff yourself it's probably an easy self install, I didn't trust myself to do it 100% right. I knew I did not want to use the saddle valve garbage that shipped with the RO setup, and I knew there were definitely wrong ways to route the waste water from the RO unit. He ended up completely redoing basically everything under the sink and if/when this one fails I'll easily be able to handle the replacement myself - shutoff valves everywhere and I can just isolate and replace both the RO and instant hot devices.

The only downside to all of this is it consumes most of the space under my kitchen sink.

Viper GTS

 

[highland145]

The only downside to all of this is it consumes most of the space under my kitchen sink.

Viper GTS

Just move it to your garage.

You, OP, I'll axe the plumber bro if I remember.

 

[zinfamous]

Oh man, I was hoping someone would jump in with random water recommendations, without me having to extend the exhausting OP even more...and Viper totally delivers.

thank you so much, my dude.

that hot water heater--yes I've looked at that one too, their top of the line, with the 3 year warranty (vs 1), not sure if the tank is that much different (better insulated)? but relatively the same design. ...but I don't know for sure, which is why I like your data. ...close enough.

I've got a carbon ~local water filter installed in the basement that I need to deal with (is diverted right now, I think), but at the same haven been wondering about getting that back working, or replacing with my own system, basically for kitchen/dishwasher/filter...uh, water heater too, i would prefer...but this current installed filter is downstream of the water heater, so that's another issue.

RO, never could get around the required waste, so I think I'm looking elsewhere, but haven't seriously considered anything yet...but this would be a basement install. I currently have a ~recent water feed exposed down there that goes straight to the kitchen, so it's a real easy design to work with right now, so I appreciate that.

as it stands, I need to rip out some counter, frame the cabinet (33" fireclay sink in 35.5-36" cabinet--I'm told 36" is standard, so that is what it basically is...), that I need to lower the front frame, build support (this looks real easy), repipe, and then still hope to have space to install the tank for the instant hot dispenser. ...it's actually plenty of space. only issue for me is lowering the switch box for the dishwasher a few inches. I have a GFCI installed directly into that, but already lower than the needed sink frame.

I think I will increase my counter space by a few inches on either side of sink, but also increase the sink volume, by claiming cabinet space that I don't really need, and still make it cleaner after installing more crap under it. It's one of those triple wins that you just take.

 

[zinfamous]

Just move it to your garage.

You, OP, I'll axe the plumber bro if I remember.

lol, hmm...don't remember that story. ...oh wait, yes.

Dad's lifelong bro-friend helped me out when I got this house. He drove up with his asbestos gear, cleaned it out, then we banged some pipes out. ended up leaving with a a new leak and a small fire, but it got fixed in the end anyway, lol.

It's funny, the dude has his ....many many properties and cars that he's put together with great, indisputable success, but that was just one of those events where...fuck it. we'll figure it out.

 

[highland145]

lol, hmm...don't remember that story. ...oh wait, yes.

Dad's lifelong bro-friend helped me out when I got this house. He drove up with his asbestos gear, cleaned it out, then we banged some pipes out. ended up leaving with a a new leak and a small fire, but it got fixed in the end anyway, lol.

It's funny, the dude has his ....many many properties and cars that he's put together with great, indisputable success, but that was just one of those events where...fuck it. we'll figure it out.

lol like the last flat earth rocket man?


WTH? Are you settling down? House owning and shizzle? Next it will be a play set in the back yard. I'm having a sad. One of my vicarious lives are ending. Next thing you know, Ex will be having a kid.


Hey, props to the Dad's. Mine wasn't perfect but I pay my bills, go to work (?) every day and love on my kid. Something stuck.

 

[Greenman]

Just one comment here, you mentioned the dishwasher is connected to the cold water line, it should be on the hot water.
OK, two comments. The last hot water dispenser I installed was actually a commercial unit and seemed to be a quality piece of gear, but I can't remember the name. You might want to look in that direction as the quality would be better than residential stuff.

 

[zinfamous]

Just one comment here, you mentioned the dishwasher is connected to the cold water line, it should be on the hot water.
OK, two comments. The last hot water dispenser I installed was actually a commercial unit and seemed to be a quality piece of gear, but I can't remember the name. You might want to look in that direction as the quality would be better than residential stuff.

danke,

I actually thought the dishwasher had two lines-I know it is connected to hot, but I have another line coming out of cold that...OK now I'm going to check it because I just assumed it was also going into the dishwasher. I never followed it...

Was it a Franke? Those seem, sorta fancy but also rubber bladders, and limited availability, but still seem to have longer-life ratings, despite the bladder, than the other units. I dunno, I'll look into it.

I'm also looking to stay under $300 for this, though.

 

[highland145]

Plumber bro says he tries to talk peeps out of them. 110V only gives 1/2 gallon/min. Or you can run a dedicated 240v, 40A line....your oven is on a 50A. And the temp rise is ~50 degrees so if you're looking for super hot, forget about it. Keep in mind that his water heater is set to 140. So could be a lot of $$ with no upside compared to a normal heater with a 10+ year lifespan.

YMMV

And...http://www.eemax.com/

 

[zinfamous]

Plumber bro says he tries to talk peeps out of them. 110V only gives 1/2 gallon/min. Or you can run a dedicated 240v, 40A line....your oven is on a 50A. And the temp rise is ~50 degrees so if you're looking for super hot, forget about it. Keep in mind that his water heater is set to 140. So could be a lot of $$ with no upside compared to a normal heater with a 10+ year lifespan.

YMMV

And...http://www.eemax.com/

1/2 gallon/minute is more than fine for my needs. I had the outlet for this installed a few months ago (110V), and instead of running a dedicated line, it's piggybacked off of the switch for the dishwasher that is also under the sink. It "should be fine;" issue being that I can't run it when the dishwasher is running, and vice versa. Again, shouldn't be an issue. For the rare times that I run the dishwasher, I am asleep.

OH--I did check my hookups this morning and you're right, Greenman--the cold water only has a single hookup, to the faucet. There were a lot of water hoses in there, wound about, and I guess it looked to me that there was another one coming out of cold after a quick look.

 

[Greenman]

Plumber bro says he tries to talk peeps out of them. 110V only gives 1/2 gallon/min. Or you can run a dedicated 240v, 40A line....your oven is on a 50A. And the temp rise is ~50 degrees so if you're looking for super hot, forget about it. Keep in mind that his water heater is set to 140. So could be a lot of $$ with no upside compared to a normal heater with a 10+ year lifespan.

YMMV

And...http://www.eemax.com/

Foolish to have the temperature set so high, someone is going to be scalded.
On the split hydronic systems I've put in we're required to install a tempering valve that can't be set past 120.

 

[highland145]

Foolish to have the temperature set so high, someone is going to be scalded.
On the split hydronic systems I've put in we're required to install a tempering valve that can't be set past 120.

You don't know my bro. Lives alone so scalding isn't a problem. 40+ years of plumbing and his body needs the 40 gallons of hot water.


Side story...a few years back one of my bff's MIL bought a local house. The gas wh was in the garage. It was, apparently, effed up from the start. Bro explains the 6 reasons why it's effed and, worst case, you'll burn your house down. Sure, a couple of them were the 1 in a million but his name wasn't going to be on the job if it wasn't right. Building codes for a reason.

 

[zinfamous]

update and another question:

I ended up going with the Insinkerator Hot150

https://www.lowes.com/pd/InSinkErator-Invite-HOT150-Satin-Nickel-Hot-Water-Dispenser/1000144769

Counters finally arrived yesterday and everything now installed (many, many delays to this project, as one might imagine, but did a lot of work over the last couple of days to get it finished up)

Now the question: the 15A undersink outlet for this unit is run from an outlet behind the dishwasher, so it isn't dedicated. It's shared with the dishwasher and another above-counter switch that was, some time ago, apparently installed to run a dish disposal that never existed (not when I bought the house, anyway--the unconnected cable for that was in a blank box under the sink. I removed that the other week...so currently that active switch doesn't turn anything on or off, but it is still active).

...these are supposed to be on dedicated circuits, but the electrician mentioned that this is fine, you just can't run the dishwasher at the same time as the hot water dispenser. ...the dispenser has no switch, so it is only off when it is unplugged. As you know, it holds temperature once the tank water gets up to set temperature, with minimal draw, so I assume it isn't drawing much power, regularly at all, once the tank reaches temperature.

So...would it be fine to just run the dishwasher as-is, just don't dispense water while it is running (presuming that triggers the heating element at full power), or should I unplug the water tank every time I run the dishwasher? the manual doesn't really cover this, because you aren't supposed to do it, I guess.

 

[herm0016]

i think you will be fine leaving it plugged in and not using it when the dishwasher is running. the dishwasher is only using a lot of current when its preheating the water or drying also.

 

[NutBucket]

Foolish to have the temperature set so high, someone is going to be scalded.
On the split hydronic systems I've put in we're required to install a tempering valve that can't be set past 120.

Uh, usually those instant ones aren't meant for hand washing so they are designed to be much hotter. Case in the point the one the OP bought has the thermostat preset for 200 degrees. Just about perfect for coffee and tea.

 

[zinfamous]

Uh, usually those instant ones aren't meant for hand washing so they are designed to be much hotter. Case in the point the one the OP bought has the thermostat preset for 200 degrees. Just about perfect for coffee and tea.

I believe Greenman there was responding to Highland's mentioning of his (admittedly ridiculous) BIL plumber that likes to keep his hot water heater at 140; not the instant dispenser type that is the subject of the general inquiry here.

and yeah, I haven't adjusted the temp on mine, yet. the dial is set at the middle point and I wanted to make sure there was no leaking anywhere or pressure buildup before I started fiddling with it. Assuming that is the pre-set you mention, I will probably leave it there, or maybe just under. I wanted to get a proper thermometer and test it in a glass, but I don't have one. ...anyone know where I can get a real mercury thermometer? those EtOH ones are crap!

 

[herm0016]

thermapen. comes with the calibration certificate. its the only fast read thermometer i have not wanted to chuck out the window.

Thermapen® ONE

Experience rapid, precise temperature readings with ThermoWorks’ best-selling Thermapen ONE. Essential for every cook, it’s your key to culinary mastery.

www.thermoworks.com

or just get a damn infared. they are pretty darn accurate now.

 

[NutBucket]

Or boil some water and stick your cheap one in there. See what it reads. Now you know what the error is when you measure the water out of the dispenser.

And sometimes you need to set the water heater hotter if you've got a long run or something. The boiler at the apartment building we help maintain is set to 135 otherwise the units at the far end of the building don't get truly hot water. I can imagine it would be worse in a cold climate with pipe running through unheated spaces.

Zin, I got the 200 number from the *gasp* instructions!

 

[zinfamous]

Zin, I got the 200 number from the *gasp* instructions!

The hell? What is that crap?

...new impending tragedy. after running some cutting boards through my new sterilization procedure, I noticed that the plumber's putty in my strainer basket started seeping up again. like...wtf? Thing is, I was going to use white silicon, but after doing much research, it really seemed that plumber's putty is the traditional, and better way to go. I didn't want to make the seal basically permanent, and with a fireclay sink, it seemed putty was better. I actually let the putty "cure" for 24 hours before running any water through the drain (putty doesn't cure--I know that now).

also, none of it was really needed with the basket that came with my sink, but I wanted to do it "proper": chrome strainer, but hard plastic basket, with rubber gasket, and foam friction disk (I think they want you to use the foam disk under the strainer in the sink, but that seems silly to me, so I fixed it between the rubber gasket and the plastic basket). ....so, the 200 F water just causes the putty to seep out from under the strainer. I start wiping it away, easily. Do a little more reading...seems the putty never actually hardens (why it never cracks--I already knew that, but didn't add two simple concepts together). Also, being petroleum based, it should not be used with plastics (I'm guessing, like the plastic basket and probably even the rubber gasket?). That stuff definitely seeped out under the sink during install, and I didn't have any way to clean it (inside the gasket and the basket)--I just assumed it would be fine. whatever...

So it looks like it will eventually break down the plastic basket if I don't replace the putty with, I'm guessing, silicone. Looks like another little piece of a project! At first I didn't like the idea of a plastic basket, but I prefer it to the cheap pot metal baskets that usually comes with all other strainer kits, so I didn't bother going aftermarket with it.