Installing Windows from a SATA CD-ROM

RossAdamBaker

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Jun 10, 2004
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Hello O Gurus,

I have recently built a computer system using a DFI Lanparty NF2 Ultra Rev B mainboard, a WD740GD SATA Raptor HDD, and a PX-712SA SATA DVD Burner. I'm now trying to install Windows on the machine, but alas... the DVD Drive is not booting. The system goes through POST, skips the drive and goes straight to "Invalid boot disk. Insert system disk and press ENTER to continue."

I've got the Hard Drive in SATA 0, the DVD Burner in SATA 1. I have tried numerous things to get this sucker to chug, including trying a million and a half combinations of the boot order/"Boot other device" option. Also, switching the SATA from regular to SATA-RAID with no luck.

The only thing I was able to do was connect an external CD-ROM via USB, which allowed me to boot PartitionMagic's DOS CD portion. From there I wasn't able to do much of anything... PartitionMagic booted me out to a command prompt after not finding any drives. This tells me that the CD should at least be working! If anybody has any ideas, I would be very greatful. Thanks!

Ross Adam Baker
 

jtusa

Diamond Member
Aug 28, 2004
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Can you make a floppy boot disk with SATA drivers on it, like with SCSI drives? That would make it detect the drive, or you could just do the initial OS install off of an IDE optical drive and then install the SATA drive afterwards. But the reason it's not detecting is because of SATA drivers...
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
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Unlike with SATA hard drives, making a slipstreamed XP CD won't do you much good, will it?

As above, you need DOS SATA CD drivers (if any exist) or to temporarily connect an IDE CD drive.
 

JBT

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
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I wasn't aware that the SATA controller (SI 3112?) on the NF2 Boards could work with optical SATA drives. I was pretty sure it couldn't anyways :confused:
 

RossAdamBaker

Member
Jun 10, 2004
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Thanks for the quick replies! Still no luck with experimenting on my own. The computer does see the drive... right after post, it does its SATA-read thing and sees both the DVD drive and the HDD. I hope that means my motherboard works with it! I was under the impression SATA was just like IDE... universally compatible.

I think I'm going to have to try a good ole' DOS Disk, as per your suggestions. Lucky for me, I don't have a floppy drive on the computer! Bah! Foiled again. I'm thinking I can use my external USB CD-ROM to get into DOS and try loading the ole' drivers from there. This kinda reminds me of the first time I tried installing a CD-ROM back in the day! All this DOS and Drivers and so forth. Such fun!
 

jtusa

Diamond Member
Aug 28, 2004
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I don't think a USB drive will work in DOS either for the same reason drivers. I think the easiest way for you to get around this problem is to just temporarily install an IDE optical drive.
 

JBT

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
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Originally posted by: jtusa4
I don't think a USB drive will work in DOS either for the same reason drivers. I think the easiest way for you to get around this problem is to just temporarily install an IDE optical drive.

that and a floppy drive so you can install the SATA drivers during the windows install.
 

Bar81

Banned
Mar 25, 2004
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Well, unfortunately that's something that's a side effect of the early stage of SATA optical devices. First off, a bunch of controllers won't recognize the SATA opticals and even those that do, even fewer will allow a SATA optical to be a bootable device. It sounds like the BIOS/controller on your mobo doesn't so you're gonna have to go pick up a cheap ATA CD-ROM for booting.
 

RossAdamBaker

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Jun 10, 2004
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Sounds like a plan! Score one cd-rom, and one floppy drive/card reader device. I'll give it a whirl and let you guys know what comes up. Oh, by the way... are there generic SATA drivers? Neither my mobo manufacturer nor the manufacturer of the optical drive have them on their motherboards. (DFI Lanparty NFII Ultra B and Plextor PX-712SA) The only thing remotely close was here, described as "MS DOS and MS Windows 3.1X DOS Driver for Plextor drives" - but in reading the description it looks like it's for SCSI drives. I'll run up to my friendly neighboorhood Best Buy and pick up my goodies - let me know if you guys know where I can find my drivers! Thanks!
 

HappyCracker

Senior member
Mar 10, 2001
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Now I might be wrong here, but I looked into that drive some time ago. I think the SATA must be native to the chipset. For example, the Intel 875 chipset has native SATA so the drive should work fine. I don't think the NF2's SATA is native, is it? My NF7-S uses the Silicon Image controllers I think.
 

JBT

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
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All the NF2's with SATA use Silicon Image yeah. Thats kinda what I was thinking that they weren't supported... But he says the BIOS sees it? I think the only drivers you'll need are the SATA controller drivers though. Not anything from plextor etc.
 

HappyCracker

Senior member
Mar 10, 2001
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Is there any way you can remap the SATA to ATA? I can on my 8KNXP, an Intel board, but maybe there's some kind of option there. I'm not even sure this would work. If all else fails, I guess the ATA CD-ROM is the only other idea.
 

RossAdamBaker

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Jun 10, 2004
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Alright, now I'm really confused - I had originally thought that SATA was an OS-transparent interface... which now I'm hearing that it may or may not be! I just scored a floppy drive so I can load some drivers and such, but the only thing I'm finding is that you can use a PATA cd-drive and hit an F6 to manually load SATA drivers so that Windows XP knows whats going on.

Luckily for me, I don't want to use XP. I want 98se. (Why you ask? I want DOS really really bad... and XP's "compatibility mode" is not cutting the bacon for me.) Maybe I'm asking the wrong questions! I'm a fairly seasoned system builder, but this is my first time delving into the nightmare that is SATA.

When I planned this build, I was under the impression SATA was just ATA-150, no different than standard PATA as far as anything except the BIOS was concerned. So, I got all SATA - figuring it would be faster than the alternative. In the one night I've spent fooling around with the system, it appears as though the SATA is actually some kind of afterthought tacked onto the board and it doesn't see the drives as PATA. Again, I've tried all sorts of BIOS configurations, with no luck. So, with that in mind, I'll rephrase my question...

I want to install Windows 98SE on a SATA hard drive and be able to use a SATA cd drive once Windows is fully installed. I'd much rather avoid PATA altogether if possible, but if I must temporarily use a PATA cd drive to install windows, so be it. I'll just pop it out once the system is go. What do I have to do to run Windows 98SE on this computer?
 

stevty2889

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2003
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That will be pretty tricky getting windows 98 to install with only SATA drives, I'm not sure it's even possible, I don't think the windows 98 setup will be able to detect a SATA drive. Sata isn't faster than PATA anyway, the only real advantage to it right now is the smaller cables. SATA stands for Serial ATA, it's a serial interface, rather than a Parallel interface like PATA, they are completely different. Also, if you want to run dos programs in Windows XP you could use a program called DosBox. It's an emultater that creates a DOS environment, including legacy DOS sound so you can use your sound with DOS based games and such.
 

Bar81

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Mar 25, 2004
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Originally posted by: RossAdamBaker
Alright, now I'm really confused - I had originally thought that SATA was an OS-transparent interface... which now I'm hearing that it may or may not be! I just scored a floppy drive so I can load some drivers and such, but the only thing I'm finding is that you can use a PATA cd-drive and hit an F6 to manually load SATA drivers so that Windows XP knows whats going on.

Luckily for me, I don't want to use XP. I want 98se. (Why you ask? I want DOS really really bad... and XP's "compatibility mode" is not cutting the bacon for me.) Maybe I'm asking the wrong questions! I'm a fairly seasoned system builder, but this is my first time delving into the nightmare that is SATA.

When I planned this build, I was under the impression SATA was just ATA-150, no different than standard PATA as far as anything except the BIOS was concerned. So, I got all SATA - figuring it would be faster than the alternative. In the one night I've spent fooling around with the system, it appears as though the SATA is actually some kind of afterthought tacked onto the board and it doesn't see the drives as PATA. Again, I've tried all sorts of BIOS configurations, with no luck. So, with that in mind, I'll rephrase my question...

I want to install Windows 98SE on a SATA hard drive and be able to use a SATA cd drive once Windows is fully installed. I'd much rather avoid PATA altogether if possible, but if I must temporarily use a PATA cd drive to install windows, so be it. I'll just pop it out once the system is go. What do I have to do to run Windows 98SE on this computer?


Well, I hate to say it but you're gonna be SOL on this one. I don't know about the hard drive install but when it comes to the SATA burner check here and notice the OS support line only states 2k/XP:
http://www.plextor.com/english/products/712SA.htm

SATA isn't an afterthought, it's a new interface and like anything new, it often isn't backwards compatible and when in its initial stages requires special drivers. As SATA has matured we're seeing native implementations like the 92X chipset from Intel or the NF3-250 from nVidia. And they both require current OSes to operate properly with the devices you want to use.

I would recommend you build an ultra cheap integrated AXP box for DOS, it's dead and if you want to move into the future you've got to let go of the past.
 

Zepper

Elite Member
May 1, 2001
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Yeah, the state of SATA optical will be only for newer OSes with ongoing maintenance. And I think the SiliconImage SATA controllers are the only ones other than some of the new Intel chipsets that support it at all. You can get SATA drivers for the SiliconImage based SATA controllers from the siliconimage.com web site. I think there was a new version released withing the last month or so.
.bh.

:moon:
 

stevty2889

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2003
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Here is a link to Dos Box, it will allow you to emulate DOS on a windows xp machine. I use it for playing some DOS games, and it works great: Dos Box
 

Bar81

Banned
Mar 25, 2004
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Originally posted by: stevty2889
Here is a link to Dos Box, it will allow you to emulate DOS on a windows xp machine. I use it for playing some DOS games, and it works great: Dos Box

Forgot about that, it's excellent. I don't quite remember, but can you save games using DOSbox?
 

Bar81

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Mar 25, 2004
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Originally posted by: Zepper
Yeah, the state of SATA optical will be only for newer OSes with ongoing maintenance. And I think the SiliconImage SATA controllers are the only ones other than some of the new Intel chipsets that support it at all. You can get SATA drivers for the SiliconImage based SATA controllers from the siliconimage.com web site. I think there was a new version released withing the last month or so.
.bh.

:moon:


Here's the most thorough listing that I can find:
http://www.gamepc.com/labs/vie...opticalsata&page=4
 

RossAdamBaker

Member
Jun 10, 2004
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Let go of the past? *drives a De Lorean, watches James Bond every night, listens to disco* Nooooo! Well, whatever must be done I suppose. The only reason I dislike Windows XP is because in my earlier tests... this was years ago... I couldn't get any DOS game to work worth a darn. When they would work, their audio would be all screwed up. Even some Windows games... in particular, Dungeon Keeper 2, suffered the same audio-jittery demise that made the games almost painful to play. Its like the games stuttered. So, I thought... hell, Windows 98se never had any of these problems! Does the "DOSBOX" fix these problems? Have any of you had any experience playing any old-school games like Duke, Shadow Warrior, or the like on it? If so, that would be AMAZING. Problem = solved. I love XP, but hate having to let go of all the old favorites. If any of you know if this thing works, or even better have tested it yourself, this solution would be the best!

Just for kicks, let me just reaffirm what I'm hearing; 1) I will not be able to boot off of my SATA DVD burner no matter how much farting around with my motherboard I do? 2) I cannot install Windows 98se to a SATA drive, no matter how much farting around I do? 3) my SATA DVD Burner will not work in Windows 98, and no driver or tweaking can make it? I ask this because my Western Digital WD740GD hard drive is both SATA and PATA ready... so if by some strange chance the optical drive could be given life, I could run the setup from a temporary IDE cdrom, install it onto the temporarily IDE Raptor, and then switch to SATA post-install.

Therefore, my solutions are as follows: 1) Install Windows XP, losing DOS games... unless DOSBOX can save the day. 2) Swap my hard drive to IDE, install Windows 98 using an IDE cdrom, and once up and running try switching over to SATA and see if it still works. If not, I'd have to ditch my PX-712SA burner and go with the PATA version.

BTW, Thanks alot for all of your input. This forum is a really great place to gather together and pool knowledge. I really appreciate all of the input going into this. I hope that I will be able to return the favor for somebody!
 

Zepper

Elite Member
May 1, 2001
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I just checked and it seems that your mobo (Lan Party NF2 Ultra) has a Marvell SATA bridge chip - went to their web site and there are no claims for ATAPI support at all. Sorry. Perhaps you can return the drive for a PATA version? Now if you happen to have the Lan Party NF2 Ultra B, then there may be joy in Mudville, as that one has the SiliconImage 3114 chip... And the driver on SI's site supports Win98 - so you you should at least get use from it - whether you can boot from SATA ATAPI is another question - that is an issue with your BIOS which an update might cure...

.bh.

:moon:
 

stevty2889

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2003
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Dos Box is a full DOS emulator, so it does fix the sound problems you would have in windows XP, as it emulates a sound blaster, and gives you an IRQ and DMA and all so your dos games that need those settings will have them. You can play and save your games as normal. You can slow down, or speed up the DOS environment as needed. As for the Raptor, the Raptor is a SATA drive, not both SATA and PATA. It just has the option of using the standard Molex connector, or a SATA power connector. If you still want to use windows 98, you would probably be better off returning the SATA drive and changing it for a PATA drive. There is no speed differance between the 2 interfaces as it is, the only advantage of SATA at this time is the smaller cable.
 

RossAdamBaker

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Jun 10, 2004
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Heck yeah! I can remember the epic railgun battles as my friends and I scrambled from cover to cover, until someone would score the nuke. "3... 2... 1... nuclear missle armed!" >>BOOM!<<

Sigh, I think I'm going with Windows XP. Just ordered me a copy. (I like to do it legally. Now to wait for shipping.) The whole DOS->XP thing seems to be a pretty hot topic around the various web forums. It doesn't seem as though anyone can figure out how to play dos games on Windows XP without a bunch of stuff going bad. I'm trying my hand on a XP laptop with no luck. DOSBOX is giving some decent results... but nowhere near as good as it was in 98se. Bummer! But, if I have to give up either my hard drive and optical drive or some old DOS games, I'll take my hardware. Maybe I'll build me a DOS computer for a hundred bucks. I just wanted the one computer which would do it all! So much for that idea!

"If you want to move into the future you've got to let go of the past." ~Bar81

Good call. I didn't know it was this much of a pain to get XP to play DOS. I mean, afterall... these games are umpteen years old... now I'm being told that they run like crap on the newest of new computers, and even when you can get them to run okay they lag and stutter. Doom 3 doesn't though. Imagine that!