Inside the progressive movement roiling the Democratic Party...

Nov 8, 2012
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Yet Ocasio-Cortez is only the most visible symbol of a grassroots insurgency that has sprung up across the country, including in spots far from deep-blue Democratic strongholds. Most embracing the progressive label share a disdain for corporate money in politics and favor more government-run healthcare, subsidies for college tuition and wage hikes for laborers.

Progressives have a mixed record in early nominating contests, more often than not losing to more mainstream Democrats.

But they have moved the party sharply to the left, particularly on expanding the government role in healthcare, a Reuters review of Democratic positions in the most competitive congressional races found.

Across 41 battleground House of Representatives districts, two-thirds of Democratic nominees want to expand the government’s role in healthcare, the review shows. About a dozen support “Medicare for All,” for many a reference to a single-payer system that would largely replace private insurance. In Congress, most House Democrats support a Medicare for All bill, with six members of the Blue Dog caucus of fiscally conservative Democrats signing on as co-sponsors.

Much of the progressive movement has its roots in the nationwide volunteer network built by Bernie Sanders’ 2016 presidential run. Several groups that sprang from the failed Sanders campaign are now pushing for progressive candidates in the midterms – including Brand New Congress, formed two years ago on the dream of running hundreds of progressive political newcomers to oust establishment incumbents, Democrats and Republicans alike.

In some ways, the splintering in the Democratic Party is simply a new round in the 2016 fight between Clinton and Sanders supporters. Progressive insurgents believe Clinton’s defeat, on top of losing control of Congress and most state governments, proved them right. They aspire to overthrow conventional wisdom that Democrats must stay safely in the middle to compete.

“Democrats have been fixated for 20 years on this elusive, independent, mythical middle of the road voter that did not exist,” said Crystal Rhoades, head of the Democratic Party in Nebraska’s Douglas County, where a progressive candidate, Kara Eastman, is trying to wrest a competitive congressional district from a Republican.

“We’re going to try bold ideas.”

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-election-progressives/

I sincerely think this is going to be a major problem - more than people realize. While there is havoc in the Republican party for sure, I'm detecting a butt-crack split down the middle that could very well make a ripping tide in the Democrat party as well.

I said this in a previous thread, I plan to vote Democrat for the next few years for a reason. But I sincerely think that the party needs to address these issues quickly if they really want to capitalize on the opportunity. Below are my main points to what the article is raising:

#1 - It is ultimately the likes of antifa and children out of college with art degrees that have no real grasp or understanding of the way the world works. There is no doubt we need to address cost issues such as healthcare, college costs, etc... but you don't flick a light switch and magically do away with everything. Ultimately, I don't know how to address this problem. It's hard to push back when your opponents just keep shouting:
"FREE College!" (Translation: Voters - I'll pay your expensive college debt that you hate so much and just graduated with!) and
"FREE Healthcare!" (Translation: Enjoy the 50% income tax rates when you actually start making money in the world instead of taking it from your parents).


#2 - Any acceptance or addressing of this - throws their base under the bus. That isn't good. They very much have the mentality of "You're with us or against us!!1one!1" This is everyone that lives in suburbs and work 9-5 with kids that don't have the time for pussy hats and complaining. That is your core voter base, and you need to not forget about them.

#3 - Democrats should have learned this lesson from last election, these people (as I said earlier) are CHILDISH. Remember the Bernie bros? Remember when their candidate didn't win? Remember threatening to vote for Trump as their way of revolting? That's called being a sore loser.

Just my initial thoughts, curious on everyone else's on how best to crush the right when they are weak and overall make a more dominate position.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,039
33,069
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All Dem candidate positions don't have to match for the midterms since the whole country isn't voting for a single pres candidate atop the ticket. Such divisions may be an issue in 2020 but, if anything, actually be a leg up for 2018 since the candidate can fit the district more easily.

GOP should be careful about deriding the healthcare stuff since the populace is broadly concerned about it and all they've done is make it worse after promising the moon (better than the ACA but cheaper). Also don't even think about bringing up the "how is it paid for" shit after debt bomb tax cut which is not popular.
 

Indus

Diamond Member
May 11, 2002
9,935
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I like progressives over establishment mainstream any day of the week.. because establishment will sell out to give billionaires their tax breaks while cutting the excess from social security, medicare and education.

You have to understand the only reasons we're even talking about this is because the rich haven't paid their fair share of taxes since Reagan.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,685
126
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-election-progressives/

I sincerely think this is going to be a major problem - more than people realize. While there is havoc in the Republican party for sure, I'm detecting a butt-crack split down the middle that could very well make a ripping tide in the Democrat party as well.

I said this in a previous thread, I plan to vote Democrat for the next few years for a reason. But I sincerely think that the party needs to address these issues quickly if they really want to capitalize on the opportunity. Below are my main points to what the article is raising:

#1 - It is ultimately the likes of antifa and children out of college with art degrees that have no real grasp or understanding of the way the world works. There is no doubt we need to address cost issues such as healthcare, college costs, etc... but you don't flick a light switch and magically do away with everything. Ultimately, I don't know how to address this problem. It's hard to push back when your opponents just keep shouting:
"FREE College!" (Translation: Voters - I'll pay your expensive college debt that you hate so much and just graduated with!) and
"FREE Healthcare!" (Translation: Enjoy the 50% income tax rates when you actually start making money in the world instead of taking it from your parents).

FREE Wars!
FREE Tax Cuts!
FREE Police State!

No one actually cares how you pay for it.

#2 - Any acceptance or addressing of this - throws their base under the bus. That isn't good. They very much have the mentality of "You're with us or against us!!1one!1" This is everyone that lives in suburbs and work 9-5 with kids that don't have the time for pussy hats and complaining. That is your core voter base, and you need to not forget about them.

Pussy hats are the "nasty women", i.e. the hardcore Hillary supporters, they are not the progressive left. Suburban voters are mostly republican, nothing lost there.

#3 - Democrats should have learned this lesson from last election, these people (as I said earlier) are CHILDISH. Remember the Bernie bros? Remember when their candidate didn't win? Remember threatening to vote for Trump as their way of revolting? That's called being a sore loser.

Clinton captured more of Bernie's voters in '16 than Obama captured of Clinton's voters in '08. An inconvenient truth. If anything, promoting popular initiatives like public health care and jobs guarantees will mobilize voters and increase democrats' chances.

Just my initial thoughts, curious on everyone else's on how best to crush the right when they are weak and overall make a more dominate position.

By crushing the center at the same time and taking the country left.
 
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Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
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Haha! Quote of the day:

Michael Byerly, a spokesman for the Congressional Leadership Fund, another Republican group, predicted Democrats’ “ultra-progressive views” will be a hard sell with middle-class voters.

Yeah, too bad you spent the last 40 years hollowing out the middle class!
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,426
6,088
126
Democracy is dead destroyed by the right and the far right. Embrace the cure, the birth of an actual left. Chaos will always be chosen over complete helplessness.

The equality and justice are all well and good as talking point concepts spewed out to win elections and so long as the parties involved, dependent on money to win elections, never actually vote for it.

Welcome to a capitalist world in which the success of enlightened self interest has been replaced by unadulterated greed. "You only go around once so grab all the gusto you can.", right? A society that panders and fans the flames of personal lust and dissatisfaction creates a society filled with it. Competition is hate and hate is self destruction.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
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LOL, Republican president is an unindicted co-conspirator in a federal case, but let's talk about some BS supposedly "roiling" the opposition party which no one except Ocasio-Cortez obsessed Republicans care about.
Government healthcare would cost less than what most people pay for family insurance coverage between premiums and deductibles, which is more than $10K now. Countries with universal single payer spend half than what we spend on health care, so for most people it would be an enormous benefit. As far as free college, I got almost free college with financial aid from the university, it was great. I now pay enough in taxes to pay for a student or two's worth of private university tuition every year, and that 4 year investment created a gravy train that will keep rolling into government coffers for 45 years, so that's probably the best investment the government could make. Meanwhile Republicans gut their state education systems and then have to spend billions in subsidies to hire their uneducated cheap labor.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
LOL, Republican president is an unindicted co-conspirator in a federal case, but let's talk about some BS supposedly "roiling" the opposition party which no one except Ocasio-Cortez obsessed Republicans care about.
Government healthcare would cost less than what most people pay for family insurance coverage between premiums and deductibles, which is more than $10K now. Countries with universal single payer spend half than what we spend on health care, so for most people it would be an enormous benefit. As far as free college, I got almost free college with financial aid from the university, it was great. I now pay enough in taxes to pay for a student or two's worth of private university tuition every year, and that 4 year investment created a gravy train that will keep rolling into government coffers for 45 years, so that's probably the best investment the government could make. Meanwhile Republicans gut their state education systems and then have to spend billions in subsidies to hire their uneducated cheap labor.

Can you retards stay on-topic for even 2 seconds?

LOOK OVER THERE! SQUIRREL! DIVERT TOPIC!
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Can you retards stay on-topic for even 2 seconds?

LOOK OVER THERE! SQUIRREL! DIVERT TOPIC!
Unindicted co-conspirator Republican president. Only reason he is un-indicted is because he is the president and the DOJ reports to him. I can see why you don't want to talk about it and would rather talk about a bartender running for a congressional seat.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
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Unindicted co-conspirator Republican president. Only reason he is un-indicted is because he is the president and the DOJ reports to him. I can see why you don't want to talk about it and would rather talk about a bartender running for a congressional seat.

Nope, apparently you can't. Might as well delete the thread if you can't stay on topic

You guys are so incompetently retarded - you can't even have a conversation about ways to improve your political party and try to bolster your base.

All you can ever do is just bring up the moronic president we have - regardless of topic.. You retards are the Godwin's Law of Trump.

And you wonder why you lose elections.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,647
5,220
136
Re #1..

Thats a pretty hard sell (laughable really) for fiscal responsibility, telling young people to live in debt, watch their SS attacked, and standby while healthcare costs spiral out of control when we have a country they are inheriting that's >$1T in the red every year due to tax cuts for someone else, but they will be the ones to have to pay it back.

Why would they go along with that?

They have every reason to burn it down and take it back.
 
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senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
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Nope, apparently you can't. Might as well delete the thread if you can't stay on topic

You guys are so incompetently retarded - you can't even have a conversation about ways to improve your political party and try to bolster your base.

All you can ever do is just bring up the moronic president we have - regardless of topic.. You retards are the Godwin's Law of Trump.

And you wonder why you lose elections.

Yes, I know how Republicans "improved" their political party by shutting down internal disagreements and then making everyone fall in line behind their un-indicted co-conspirator president. We don't need these "improvements" in the Democratic party, thank you very much.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,647
5,220
136
That said, they actually have to be able to win, otoh, Medicare for All is proving highly popular.

We'll see where it goes
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,325
28,579
136
... but let's talk about some BS supposedly "roiling" the opposition party which no one except Ocasio-Cortez obsessed Republicans care about.
Government healthcare would cost less than what most people pay for family insurance coverage between premiums and deductibles, which is more than $10K now. Countries with universal single payer spend half than what we spend on health care, so for most people it would be an enormous benefit. As far as free college, I got almost free college with financial aid from the university, it was great. I now pay enough in taxes to pay for a student or two's worth of private university tuition every year, and that 4 year investment created a gravy train that will keep rolling into government coffers for 45 years, so that's probably the best investment the government could make. Meanwhile Republicans gut their state education systems and then have to spend billions in subsidies to hire their uneducated cheap labor.
Can you retards stay on-topic for even 2 seconds?

LOOK OVER THERE! SQUIRREL! DIVERT TOPIC!
Here let me help you since you can't seem to read past the opening statement.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
Here let me help you since you can't seem to read past the opening statement.

... It has nothing to do with the topic at-hand which is the splintering party. That is what the article is about. There is literally nothing in that chunk of diarrhea text that relates to the actual topic.

Obviously he didn't read the article in the slightest because he thinks it's simply a matter of Ocasio-Cortez and that's it, which clearly isn't the case if the article was read.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
People are coming to realization that progressive solutions are the only ones that have a chance of working for health care, because those solutions work in all other developed countries, and conservative and moderate solutions don't work anywhere, including the US. Old folks in the Democratic party who triangulated it into losing election after election and getting it to a point where it stands for nothing are being replaced by people who know what needs to be done and ready to do it. That is a good thing. Internal disruption is a healthy thing for organizations, that's how they evolve.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,426
6,088
126
Nope, apparently you can't. Might as well delete the thread if you can't stay on topic

You guys are so incompetently retarded - you can't even have a conversation about ways to improve your political party and try to bolster your base.

All you can ever do is just bring up the moronic president we have - regardless of topic.. You retards are the Godwin's Law of Trump.

And you wonder why you lose elections.
Did anybody note the destructive power of hate? When dealing with angry hornets one generally gets stung. Everybody else is to blame for your naivete, I guess.
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,325
28,579
136
... It has nothing to do with the topic at-hand which is the splintering party. That is what the article is about. There is literally nothing in that chunk of diarrhea text that relates to the actual topic.

Obviously he didn't read the article in the slightest because he thinks it's simply a matter of Ocasio-Cortez and that's it, which clearly isn't the case if the article was read.
He literally addressed some of the stupid things you said in your OP
 
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
58
86
I like progressives over establishment mainstream any day of the week.. because establishment will sell out to give billionaires their tax breaks while cutting the excess from social security, medicare and education.

You have to understand the only reasons we're even talking about this is because the rich haven't paid their fair share of taxes since Reagan.

The rich pay too much taxes especially when they're wasted on people who dont want to work.
 

Indus

Diamond Member
May 11, 2002
9,935
6,521
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The rich pay too much taxes especially when they're wasted on people who dont want to work.

Bullshit. The best times in America that Trump is trying to take us back to.. i.e. the 50's.. the people making over $200,000 were paying 90% tax. That's how the middle class got better and the best in the world.

Keep ignoring while drinking the kool-aid.
 
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
58
86
Bullshit. The best times in America that Trump is trying to take us back to.. i.e. the 50's.. the people making over $200,000 were paying 90% tax. That's how the middle class got better and the best in the world.

Keep ignoring while drinking the kool-aid.

That is stealing, nobody should be paying 90% taxes. You just want more welfare for yourself.