Innaproriate political and religious content in a public school

Uhtrinity

Platinum Member
Dec 21, 2003
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So, as some of you know, yesterday was Constitution Day. One of the parents approached the administrator of our school so he could talk to the students (5th - 8th graders) about the Constitution. I guess he also told the administrator that he wanted to talk a little bit about how the founding fathers prayed and felt the constitution had divine influence. The presenter was told has long as he framed it historically from the written few of the founders (such as Ben Franklin) it would be ok.

So, he starts out with the pledge of allegiance, then America the Beautiful, and I have to say the students did a great job on that considering it was not rehearsed. He then starts a slide show about how the founding fathers had different levels of faith, but in the end they had differences and that they had to pray on those differences. In the end they had to rely on a supreme leader to help them through those differences, and proceeded to ask the students who that was ...... George Washington ... no, Abraham Lincoln ... no, wrong era. Finally he said God and had the kids repeat it.

The next part he started on the Constitution, but didn't refer to any one part. But instead proceeded to say it was under attack quoting the length of tax code, the number of pages in the health care bill. At that point I asked the Administrator into the hallway and let him know I was uncomfortable with the whole presentation as it was nothing but a political indoctrination. At no point did he even talk directly about the Constitution or any part of it. It frankly sounded like a presentation you would give at a Tea Party meeting to put a little bit of fear into your followers. Far from what should be taught to 5th - 8th graders in a public school. I know the parent meant well, but the context was completely inappropriate.

After school I had a talk with the assistant administrator and he told me he is expecting some fallout over the weekend. For the record I am against anything like this regardless of whether it is from Conservatives, Liberals, Tea Partiers, the Green Party, or Libertarians. Religion and Politics need to be left out of the schools. The only exception would be during elections and only if two sides are presented.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,824
6,374
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Would have been best to have a History Teacher, Judge, or some other person with Knowledge on the subject do such a presentation. Just allowing some Parent to come up with it without seeing the content beforehand is just inviting shenanigans.
 

Uhtrinity

Platinum Member
Dec 21, 2003
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Would have been best to have a History Teacher, Judge, or some other person with Knowledge on the subject do such a presentation. Just allowing some Parent to come up with it without seeing the content beforehand is just inviting shenanigans.

The parent in question has a Masters Degree and I believe he works at the local University. I could be wrong on that part. But you are right, the whole presentation should have been previewed. Whenever I do a video off of a unknown source in my class I preview it. Nothing like a nice little unwanted surprise to ruin a lesson :)
 

Doboji

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
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Yeah as a parent, I do believe I'd go ballistic over this. Absolutely inappropriate and unacceptable. Whoever made the call to allow the presentation without first screening it should have their head chopped off employment-wise.
 

Kirby

Lifer
Apr 10, 2006
12,028
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The parent in question has a Masters Degree and I believe he works at the local University. I could be wrong on that part. But you are right, the whole presentation should have been previewed. Whenever I do a video off of a unknown source in my class I preview it. Nothing like a nice little unwanted surprise to ruin a lesson :)

Regardless of his education, you'd think people would be courteous enough not to pull that kind of shit. It's sort of sad that you need to preview a presentation on the Constitution of all things.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,875
6,784
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It is vital that children be protected from the brainwashing of sick adults. That is why their parents should be shot the minute they are born.

We are either going to have to insulate ourselves from the devil who is out to get us, or we are going to have to see that the devil we fear has already won.

One effective cure for any one form of insanity is being exposed to multiple forms of it. Eventually intelligent folk will see the pattern.

One is out there for God, another for country. Some are for race, some for Creed, some for tribe, some for the team. It's all about the psychopathology of self identification with something of supreme value because we all feel our real self is worthless.

Come join my psychosis oh please oh please, because I'm insanely lonely. I can't put down others and make fun of other freaks if I have no friends with which to share my sickness.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
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0
What idiot let him go up there without seeing what they had planned before hand?

Most schools require you to give them the words/slides/etc... to review before hand.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
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Did he at least explain how the founding fathers found slavery acceptable and that women shouldn't vote in elections, etc.
 

Doboji

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
7,912
0
76
It is vital that children be protected from the brainwashing of sick adults. That is why their parents should be shot the minute they are born.

We are either going to have to insulate ourselves from the devil who is out to get us, or we are going to have to see that the devil we fear has already won.

One effective cure for any one form of insanity is being exposed to multiple forms of it. Eventually intelligent folk will see the pattern.

One is out there for God, another for country. Some are for race, some for Creed, some for tribe, some for the team. It's all about the psychopathology of self identification with something of supreme value because we all feel our real self is worthless.

Come join my psychosis oh please oh please, because I'm insanely lonely. I can't put down others and make fun of other freaks if I have no friends with which to share my sickness.

wut?
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
If you think about it, religious extremists are a lot like child molesters. They force themselves on children. They prod your brain with two fingers and ask if it hurts. When your mind is all loosened up and ready, they go on to fill it with a bunch of goo. Then the kid goes home and tells his parents what happened. While the kid is crying, his parents assure him that they still love him no matter what and that the bad religious people won't be able to fuck his brains anymore.

Also, it's pretty obvious that these particular religious groups are just after money. If they actually read the bible or paid attention in a real church, they would remember the part about how it's wrong to brainwash or mislead people, and when asked, you should tell the truth to nazis and admit you are hiding jews in your attic.
 

Scooby Doo

Golden Member
Sep 1, 2006
1,035
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"Now remember kids... if you don't pay attention in class this is what your going to turn into" :D
 

Uhtrinity

Platinum Member
Dec 21, 2003
2,263
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Did he at least explain how the founding fathers found slavery acceptable and that women shouldn't vote in elections, etc.

He actually went as far to say the Constitution does not allow slavery ...... but failed to mention it was through an amendment or even which amendment. The whole talk which fortunately lasted 25 minutes was severely lacking of any specific facts other than the length of the health care bill.
 

Uhtrinity

Platinum Member
Dec 21, 2003
2,263
202
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What idiot let him go up there without seeing what they had planned before hand?

Most schools require you to give them the words/slides/etc... to review before hand.

They obviously didn't ask enough questions.

edit: Btw I would hate to see someone lose a job over it. Hopefully it will be lesson learned.
 
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spittledip

Diamond Member
Apr 23, 2005
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I don't see the big deal with what the "speaker" said. To me it seems that the real problem is that they let whoever wanted to just speak out. What fool on the staff said, "Let's just let any clown go up to the microphone and say whatever silly thing comes to his mind"? THIS is the real issue.

As far as message content, it would only be a problem if the person who presented the information was a school employee. As a guest speaker, they can say whatever they want. The staff can just claim ignorance: "We didn't know he was going to say that". If the message took the staff by surprise and the staff for whatever ridiculous reason found the information threatening, they could just have a deprogramming session the next day. Wouldn't be the first time.

Also, I wouldn't worry too much about the kids being brainwashed. Brainwashing usually requires information being presented over and over and over again, and maybe a little starvation and stimulus association etc.

People worry over foolish things.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
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There's no reason this right wing nut job should have been allowed to voice his opinion. Good thing the representative of the teachers union will be there for the other 179 days of the school year to present the other side.
 

brandonb

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 2006
3,731
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I don't see what's wrong with this.

It's one man, and one mans opinion. Children and adults both need to realize that there are people on this planet that have different opinions on things, and we need to be tolerant of those... Just because someone mentioned "God" or a divine being or something politican doesn't mean the kid is going to turn into a zeolot zombie or be converted. I had a worlds religion class in 10th grade, and at the end of the semister, after the teach taught us about all the different religions had a class to just have a Q&A and free for all discussion. One of the kids asked "So what religion are you?" He said "Christian"... They asked "Why?" He said "Even though it seems like one of the most illlogical religions out there, I just have that faith. I can't explain it."

Should that guy have been removed? Nah... He did a great job explaining the other religions. He didn't convert me (I was Atheist at that point)...

I also had a biology teacher say for the following week after Clinton was elected "Happy days are here again" over and over every day...

I'm sorry this guy pissed in your wheaties, but geez. We all need to learn to be a bit more tolerant and accepting of other peoples views, even if they are wrong.
 

Doboji

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
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I don't see what's wrong with this.

It's one man, and one mans opinion. Children and adults both need to realize that there are people on this planet that have different opinions on things, and we need to be tolerant of those... Just because someone mentioned "God" or a divine being or something politican doesn't mean the kid is going to turn into a zeolot zombie or be converted. I had a worlds religion class in 10th grade, and at the end of the semister, after the teach taught us about all the different religions had a class to just have a Q&A and free for all discussion. One of the kids asked "So what religion are you?" He said "Christian"... They asked "Why?" He said "Even though it seems like one of the most illlogical religions out there, I just have that faith. I can't explain it."

Should that guy have been removed? Nah... He did a great job explaining the other religions. He didn't convert me (I was Atheist at that point)...

I also had a biology teacher say for the following week after Clinton was elected "Happy days are here again" over and over every day...

I'm sorry this guy pissed in your wheaties, but geez. We all need to learn to be a bit more tolerant and accepting of other peoples views, even if they are wrong.

There's a big difference between a World Religion teacher admitting he's a christian, and a random parent standing up in a American history or politics class under the guise of a lecture on the constitution and preaching about God to my kids. That shit is absolutely unacceptable, and if this happened at my kids schools there would be hell to pay.

It's not pissing in my wheaties... How would you feel if a Satan worshipper got up there under the same pretense and taught the kids how Satan motivated the constitution's signing and we should all worship the dark prince?

Yeah like I said total bullshit and unacceptable.
 

brandonb

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 2006
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There's a big difference between a World Religion teacher admitting he's a christian, and a random parent standing up in a American history or politics class under the guise of a lecture on the constitution and preaching about God to my kids. That shit is absolutely unacceptable, and if this happened at my kids schools there would be hell to pay.

It's not pissing in my wheaties... How would you feel if a Satan worshipper got up there under the same pretense and taught the kids how Satan motivated the constitution's signing and we should all worship the dark prince?

Yeah like I said total bullshit and unacceptable.

I wouldn't care, and I'm sure my kid would find it funny and think the person was a kook. Tolerance is only tolerated if someone agrees with your views.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
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I agree 100%, just get it past the teachers union that if any teacher engages in it they lose their job. Good luck with that.

It's impossible in some areas to cover content without interjecting at least some level of opinion or bias. Furthermore, it's important to introduce some types of issues which are controversial. And, it's equally important to teach students debating skills.

What the hell are students supposed to debate? Which color to paint the hallways in the school? Or would you rather that students don't learn such skills?
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
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Just have some teacher show some Micheal Moore movies in the classroom to balance it out like they do in schools in SF.