Injustice of global politics

[rchiu]

Taiwan rejected in bid to join UN

Taiwan world ranking:

49th in population
22nd in GPD
3rd in Foreign Reserve

But most countries, including US (US Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte actually criticized Taiwan on the attempt), denies the voice of Taiwanese people being heard just because China.

Now I know Taiwan independence is a hot topic, but there should be ways for UN to grant Taiwan a seat without Taiwan declaring independence outright. Both UN body and the US never attempted to work something out, all they do is rejecting Taiwan out of fear of China. How pathetic.

 

[Mxylplyx]

This is yet another example of how useless and flawed the UN is. The UN is NOT a body that promotes fairness. It is a body where countries go to promote their own interests, and right now that interest is not pissing off China. The UN is only effective when one of the power players, ie the US, exerts it's influence. Even under those circumstances, the UN role is purely symbolic. Remove the disproportional influence certain countries have at the UN, and it will be even more worthless than it is now.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: rchiu
Taiwan rejected in bid to join UN

Taiwan world ranking:

49th in population
22nd in GPD
3rd in Foreign Reserve

But most countries, including US (US Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte actually criticized Taiwan on the attempt), denies the voice of Taiwanese people being heard just because China.

Now I know Taiwan independence is a hot topic, but there should be ways for UN to grant Taiwan a seat without Taiwan declaring independence outright. Both UN body and the US never attempted to work something out, all they do is rejecting Taiwan out of fear of China. How pathetic.

I hardly think it's fair or accurate to blast the USA for helping Taiwan. This was the 15th attempt by Taiwan, and no the USA didn't support this effort.

China has indicated such an effort would viewed badly and could provoke aggression. No one takes that lightly.

While I personally support Taiwan's entry into the UN, because China holds a permanent seat on the Security Council they can just veto any such attempt (as I understand it).

Why provoke more global tensions or conflict in a doomed/futile attempt? Aren't there enough problems as it is? Do we really need another global conflict ATM?

Timing is everything, and this is crappy timing to go pick an unnecessary fight.

Further, NK seems to be finally co-operating with nuclear inspections etc. They've even agreed to dismantle by the end of the year etc. No doubt in great measure because of pressure from China. It would be a monumental blunder to f*ck that up now by unneccesarily pissing off China in some doomed attempt. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

No wonder the US is unhappy with the attempt. We were probrably critisizing/embarassing China for their apparent lack of control over NK, then end up looking like boobs when Taiwan pulled this stunt. (Or maybe it's all a choreographed move between the US & Taiwan to get China onboard with the NK thingy. We agree NOT to back Taiwan, and China agrees to pressure NK. WTH knows?)

Fern

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Yes its an injustice. Yet how does the world treat the out right threats that China makes concerning Taiwan? They awarded them the Olympic games.

This isn't just a UN issue, its proof of a dysfunctinal world.

100:1 if it came to a vote today Israel would never be a member.

 

[techs]

Hey, did South Carolina apply to the U.N.?
Same thing. Only difference is the war is over for S. Carolina while Taiwan is still a secessionist state of China.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: techs
Hey, did South Carolina apply to the U.N.?
Same thing. Only difference is the war is over for S. Carolina while Taiwan is still a secessionist state of China.

Taiwan surrendered to the PRC?
That's news to me.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: techs
Hey, did South Carolina apply to the U.N.?
Same thing. Only difference is the war is over for S. Carolina while Taiwan is still a secessionist state of China.

You obviously know little of the subject.


Taiwan has been independant since 1949. The communist of mainland China had their chance to take over Taiwan and never did. Now they just rely on threats against a much more successful country.

Taiwan is a country all its own, if anything they are the legitimate government of China - a government in exile at most.

 

[ayabe]

I agree with Shiv on this.

We in the West continue to turn a blind eye to China, our companies like Google and Yahoo are accomplices in helping to oppress the Chinese people, all simply because of cheap labor.

At some point in the not too distant future I can see the US abandoning Taiwan completely and letting the Chinese do what they want.

 

[Lemon law]

Blame Nixon if you don't like it. Sooner or later China will gobble them up. Its best done peacefully. Meanwhile a status quo exists that hurts neither. But gone are days in which anyone real thinks Taiwan is the legitimate government of China. The UN is wise to say no even for separate countries.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Fern


I hardly think it's fair or accurate to blast the USA for helping Taiwan. This was the 15th attempt by Taiwan, and no the USA didn't support this effort.

China has indicated such an effort would viewed badly and could provoke aggression. No one takes that lightly.

While I personally support Taiwan's entry into the UN, because China holds a permanent seat on the Security Council they can just veto any such attempt (as I understand it).

Why provoke more global tensions or conflict in a doomed/futile attempt? Aren't there enough problems as it is? Do we really need another global conflict ATM?

Timing is everything, and this is crappy timing to go pick an unnecessary fight.

Further, NK seems to be finally co-operating with nuclear inspections etc. They've even agreed to dismantle by the end of the year etc. No doubt in great measure because of pressure from China. It would be a monumental blunder to f*ck that up now by unneccesarily pissing off China in some doomed attempt. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

No wonder the US is unhappy with the attempt. We were probrably critisizing/embarassing China for their apparent lack of control over NK, then end up looking like boobs when Taiwan pulled this stunt. (Or maybe it's all a choreographed move between the US & Taiwan to get China onboard with the NK thingy. We agree NOT to back Taiwan, and China agrees to pressure NK. WTH knows?)

Fern

I fully understand that China holds a permanent seat on the Security Council and they will veto the attempt, and this will certainly provoke tension in terms of the relationship with China. But for UN and the US (the superpower of the world and the country supposedly supports freedom and democracy), to outright reject the attempt, without at least having the attempt to go through the process, just show how much countries around the world fear China these days.

and Taiwanese people is not just a chess piece for the US in the international political game. Over 70% of Taiwanese people want to see Taiwan represented in UN, regardless of the name and how Taiwan get in there. If US really respect freedom, it would have respect Taiwnese's wishes and not treat this as a bargain chip.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
This is yet another example of how useless and flawed the UN is. The UN is NOT a body that promotes fairness. It is a body where countries go to promote their own interests, and right now that interest is not pissing off China. The UN is only effective when one of the power players, ie the US, exerts it's influence. Even under those circumstances, the UN role is purely symbolic. Remove the disproportional influence certain countries have at the UN, and it will be even more worthless than it is now.

Sounds a lot like congress.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Blame Nixon if you don't like it. Sooner or later China will gobble them up. Its best done peacefully. Meanwhile a status quo exists that hurts neither. But gone are days in which anyone real thinks Taiwan is the legitimate government of China. The UN is wise to say no even for separate countries.

Well, nobody think Taiwan is the legitimate government of China, but how about Taiwan as a legitimate political entity of its own with 23 million people, robust economy and a totally democratic society? How is it fair for the world to turn a blind eye to China gobble up Taiwan just because everyone depends of China for cheap product and labor these days?

Yeah, I guess UN is wise for being a chicken sh!t and not ruffing the feather of China.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Blame Nixon if you don't like it. Sooner or later China will gobble them up. Its best done peacefully. Meanwhile a status quo exists that hurts neither. But gone are days in which anyone real thinks Taiwan is the legitimate government of China. The UN is wise to say no even for separate countries.

Well, nobody think Taiwan is the legitimate government of China, but how about Taiwan as a legitimate political entity of its own with 23 million people, robust economy and a totally democratic society? How is it fair for the world to turn a blind eye to China gobble up Taiwan just because everyone depends of China for cheap product and labor these days?

Yeah, I guess UN is wise for being a chicken sh!t and not ruffing the feather of China.

Has Taiwan declared "independence" or are they still acting as the defacto government in exhile.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Blame Nixon if you don't like it. Sooner or later China will gobble them up. Its best done peacefully. Meanwhile a status quo exists that hurts neither. But gone are days in which anyone real thinks Taiwan is the legitimate government of China. The UN is wise to say no even for separate countries.

Well, nobody think Taiwan is the legitimate government of China, but how about Taiwan as a legitimate political entity of its own with 23 million people, robust economy and a totally democratic society? How is it fair for the world to turn a blind eye to China gobble up Taiwan just because everyone depends of China for cheap product and labor these days?

Yeah, I guess UN is wise for being a chicken sh!t and not ruffing the feather of China.

Has Taiwan declared "independence" or are they still acting as the defacto government in exhile.

No, Taiwan has not declared independence. Therefore my post is valid.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Blame Nixon if you don't like it. Sooner or later China will gobble them up. Its best done peacefully. Meanwhile a status quo exists that hurts neither. But gone are days in which anyone real thinks Taiwan is the legitimate government of China. The UN is wise to say no even for separate countries.

Well, nobody think Taiwan is the legitimate government of China, but how about Taiwan as a legitimate political entity of its own with 23 million people, robust economy and a totally democratic society? How is it fair for the world to turn a blind eye to China gobble up Taiwan just because everyone depends of China for cheap product and labor these days?

Yeah, I guess UN is wise for being a chicken sh!t and not ruffing the feather of China.

Has Taiwan declared "independence" or are they still acting as the defacto government in exhile.

No, Taiwan has not declared independence. Therefore my post is valid.

Yeah Taiwan has not declared independence because they know the minutes they do that, China is gonna attack and the International community is just gonna watch. But the fact is that Taiwan has an political, social and economical system totally independent of China. The only reason it's not a independent country is because of China being a bully it is, and the international community fearing how China is not gonna continue to provide them with cheap goods and labor.

 

[sandorski]

As long as China has Veto power on the SC, it won't happen. Take away the SC's Veto Power.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Fern

-snip-

Fern

I fully understand that China holds a permanent seat on the Security Council and they will veto the attempt, and this will certainly provoke tension in terms of the relationship with China. But for UN and the US (the superpower of the world and the country supposedly supports freedom and democracy), to outright reject the attempt, without at least having the attempt to go through the process, just show how much countries around the world fear China these days.

and Taiwanese people is not just a chess piece for the US in the international political game. Over 70% of Taiwanese people want to see Taiwan represented in UN, regardless of the name and how Taiwan get in there. If US really respect freedom, it would have respect Taiwnese's wishes and not treat this as a bargain chip.

But hasn't the USA supported Taiwan in any of those other 14 or 15 attempts? Don't we send over big warships when China decides to get *frisky*? etc.

(And I object to your lumping the UN and the USA together in such a manor 😀 )

IMO, it's just the wrong time to be making honorable yet useless, futile and risky gestures. Seems everywhere else, everybody is angry at the USA for being provocative, yet here you're angry because we aren't (for a change).

Chess game? Of course. What is international politics if not that? Things are complicated, and all the ramifications need be anticipated.

China-Iran-NK are all interwoven to some extent. We need to excercise some *Real Politic* instead of tossing a Taiwanese grenade into into that combustable mix now. Especially if we couldn't win due to China's veto and a lack of other countries support.

Self immolation seems popular with women in Arab/Muslin and Indian countries, no need to spread it further.

I'm just saying the timings bad, that's all.

Fern

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
This is yet another example of how useless and flawed the UN is. The UN is NOT a body that promotes fairness. It is a body where countries go to promote their own interests, and right now that interest is not pissing off China. The UN is only effective when one of the power players, ie the US, exerts it's influence. Even under those circumstances, the UN role is purely symbolic. Remove the disproportional influence certain countries have at the UN, and it will be even more worthless than it is now.

It's in the US interest currently to promote "not pissing off" China right now. Thus the UN is the best effective tool to administer US foreign policy and work out side deals.

 

[OS]

i'm not one to blindly rip conservatives, but here we have an established democracy, that is for all realistic and practical purposes, a sovereign country, that is basically being held hostage every day by China from independence, and the so called "chickenhawks" don't even have a word of protest.

But we'll go to war every other questionable place to "free" people. Not that I am advocating war on China, but the US, repubs included, are obviously all China's bitches.