Infowars Interviews a Socialist - "You people have worms in your brains."

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Bubbleawsome

Diamond Member
Apr 14, 2013
4,834
1,204
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So do you have any counter arguments for the fact that my friend could still be helped by a form of socialized medical care? And that healthcare would greatly benefit the US?
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
Them:

If you redistribute wealth you disincentivize hard work and innovation. Socializing health care will increase wait times

Us:

e9f953b08e4cf78791f2b42968f6c943
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,644
50,881
136
Your point would be better if you linked to something. Regardless, it doesn't debunk incentives which is the fundamental principle of capitalism and why it works.

Well your point was kind of silly anyway as it's not a question between capitalism and socialism as every country is a mix of both. If you are really attempting to doubt that the countries with higher government expenditures/GDP tend to be the wealthier western ones please let me know. It would be silly.

The united states is the world leader in technological innovation. A lot of this boils down to our free market, and incentives. What happens if you take that away? Do people want to stick around? So what happens after you redistribute that wealth and then people bounce and then you run out of that money?

Venezuela is a great example. They had a temporary boom from the influx of money to lower classes, but eventually they ran out of said money.

What temporary boom from an influx of money to lower classes? That doesn't even make any sense. What sort of economic model are you describing and where is this influx of money coming from and what is running out? It's hard to square this with any economic model I'm aware of.

As for the US being the world leader in technological innovation how are you measuring that? Is it just a feeling you have or is there some concrete data?

Look, I encourage you to just sticking to points instead of bringing attention to so called ignorance. It's just window dressing and doesn't further the discussion when counter points is all you need.

Pointing out that you don't appear to know what you're talking about directly furthers the discussion because it brings to your attention that you're talking about things you don't understand. It might help you to listen more and talk less in that circumstance, no? Maybe ask more questions, things like that. What do you think?
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
What temporary boom from an influx of money to lower classes? That doesn't even make any sense. What sort of economic model are you describing and where is this influx of money coming from and what is running out? It's hard to square this with any economic model I'm aware of.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-15240081

To maintain political support, Mr Chavez expanded his social programmes using the income derived from high oil prices.

Minimum wages were increased sharply and many Venezuelans were lifted out of poverty.

He nationalized the oil companies during a time when oil was at a peak, and when it collapsed the money dried up.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,818
136
It's funny how conservatives will claim that socialized health care is guaranteed to fail... and promptly ignore the numerous countries where it exists and provides superior care to the US.

No one should have to choose between staying healthy and staying out of financial trouble. It's pretty despicable hat the US system makes some people declare bankruptcy to deal with cancer or an injury.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,644
50,881
136
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-15240081

He nationalized the oil companies during a time when oil was at a peak, and when it collapsed the money dried up.

This doesn't address my point in any way as he was talking about socialism generally, not Venezuela. So again, what influx of money? Why is it running out? What economic model is this based on?

We both know the answer: it was based on nothing.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,644
50,881
136
It's funny how conservatives will claim that socialized health care is guaranteed to fail... and promptly ignore the numerous countries where it exists and provides superior care to the US.

No one should have to choose between staying healthy and staying out of financial trouble. It's pretty despicable hat the US system makes some people declare bankruptcy to deal with cancer or an injury.

Well sure, the actual answer is that more socialized systems are good at some things and more capitalistic systems are good at others. Smart people use the appropriate tool for the task at hand.

If you watch too much TV or listen to too much right wing radio though then you're on the 'socialism is evil' train and it's hard to get off as once you admit it's better at one thing you might have to admit it's better at more things. A lot of scary cognitive dissonance comes after that.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
This doesn't address my point in any way as he was talking about socialism generally, not Venezuela. So again, what influx of money? Why is it running out? What economic model is this based on?

We both know the answer: it was based on nothing.

Um, your questions that I responded to were answered. The influx of money came from nationalizing the oil companies and taking the profits and giving them to the poor. It ran out because the oil price tanked. Its based on Socialism and or a transition to Communism. Taking a private firm and making it nationalized is for sure not capitalism.

I did not address anything else beyond that because I do not feel it needs addressing.
 
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tygeezy

Senior member
Aug 28, 2012
300
14
81
So do you have any counter arguments for the fact that my friend could still be helped by a form of socialized medical care? And that healthcare would greatly benefit the US?
Her options are to buy her own health care, get a full time job, or do less work so she can qualify for Medicaid which is socialized. If she buys her own health care she can write off her premiums in her taxes since it isn't provided by employment. Also, if she has a certain amount of medical expenses she can deduct part of that by filling a schedule A.

So, she still has options. If she prioritized her health she could get coverage. I prioritize my health, I have type 1 diabetes; this is why I made sure I got employment with good health benefits.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
What was handled? Was I given two minutes to come up with a response? Let me ask what you add to these conversations? Because all I see from you are pot shots and insults for the crime of disagreement. I don't believe that people I disagree with our trash. I hope you don't treat people in real life the way you treat people here that don't subscribe to your ideology.
You self identify as Republican trash?
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Her options are to buy her own health care, get a full time job, or do less work so she can qualify for Medicaid which is socialized. If she buys her own health care she can write off her premiums in her taxes since it isn't provided by employment. Also, if she has a certain amount of medical expenses she can deduct part of that by filling a schedule A.

So, she still has options. If she prioritized her health she could get coverage. I prioritize my health, I have type 1 diabetes; this is why I made sure I got employment with good health benefits.
Obamacare will cover your preexisting condition if you get laid off.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
KKK is a OK?

To be fair, I think there is something to be said for not going too far based off of the group judgement. So to me the KKK is a racist group that promotes violence. That does not mean every person has committed or even promoted violence. So while I would judge the person for being part of that hateful group, I would not then say they are equal to someone that is part of that group and has committed violence.

Same goes for NAMBLA. Raping a child is right up there as the most horrible thing you can do, but being part of that group and raping a child are on different levels completely and should be treated as such.

There are many on this forum that believe violence is justified for someone holding racist ideas such as what the KKK promotes, but to me its different than committing violence which is also something the KKK promotes. So you should really do both types of judgements.
 
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Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,574
7,671
136
If you redistribute wealth you disincentivize hard work and innovation.
Her options are to buy her own health care, get a full time job, or do less work so she can qualify for Medicaid which is socialized. If she buys her own health care she can write off her premiums in her taxes since it isn't provided by employment. Also, if she has a certain amount of medical expenses she can deduct part of that by filling a schedule A.

So, she still has options. If she prioritized her health she could get coverage. I prioritize my health, I have type 1 diabetes; this is why I made sure I got employment with good health benefits.

Surprised they Insured your pre-existing condition. Didn't they pass a law a couple years ago that they had to insure your pre-existing condition? Sucks trumps trying change that. Dont change jobs!
 
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tygeezy

Senior member
Aug 28, 2012
300
14
81
Obamacare will cover your preexisting condition if you get laid off.
I was careful to chose a place where the likelihood is nill. I have the safe stable job, my wife to be has the high risk, high reward tech startup gig. I was in a situation where I needed to prioritize my health. I'm happy we have that freedom in America.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Same people who are spending $1T a year on corporate tax cuts?

No, the pool of people paying into the system you are likely to be part of are not those people. Thus it follows that if there is an increased expense the people paying into that system are the ones covering you. I suppose you could try and say that all funds are fungible and thus the ultra wealthy are paying higher rates, but, really even that is super small. Ultimately the people paying for the preexisting conditions are not the ultra wealthy. Its really the young and healthy that are covering the sick.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,644
50,881
136
Um, your questions that I responded to were answered. The influx of money came from nationalizing the oil companies and taking the profits and giving them to the poor. It ran out because the oil price tanked. Its based on Socialism and or a transition to Communism. Taking a private firm and making it nationalized is for sure not capitalism.

I did not address anything else beyond that because I do not feel it needs addressing.

They did not answer my questions at all unless you believe that every country on earth that has ever experimented with socialism of any sort nationalized the oil companies, had an oil boom, and then collapsed when the oil boom ended.

I will repeat for the second time, I was addressing socialism generally, not Venezuela specifically. If you read his post more carefully you will see that as well. You weren't responding to the question asked.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,574
7,671
136
I was careful to chose a place where the likelihood is nill. I have the safe stable job, my wife to be has the high risk, high reward tech startup gig. I was in a situation where I needed to prioritize my health. I'm happy we have that freedom in America.

There are lots of countries that have the same "freedoms" but with universal healthcare. Freedom is not just an american flag to wave around.
 
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Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
There are lots of countries that have the same "freedoms" but with universal healthcare. Freedom is not just an american flag to wave around.

Do not try to argue with him, he will never get fired from the dick sucking factory. Checkmate bitch.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,644
50,881
136
No, the pool of people paying into the system you are likely to be part of are not those people. Thus it follows that if there is an increased expense the people paying into that system are the ones covering you. I suppose you could try and say that all funds are fungible and thus the ultra wealthy are paying higher rates, but, really even that is super small. Ultimately the people paying for the preexisting conditions are not the ultra wealthy. Its really the young and healthy that are covering the sick.

He's more right than you think. If you're laid off that means you're either going on Medicaid, where 'Obamacare' (ie: the government) picks up 100% of the tab or you're going into the individual ACA marketplace. While I wasn't able to find an exact percentage of ACA premiums picked up by the government I imagine it's quite large there as well as almost all enrollees qualify for subsidies.
 
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Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
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I was careful to chose a place where the likelihood is nill. I have the safe stable job, my wife to be has the high risk, high reward tech startup gig. I was in a situation where I needed to prioritize my health. I'm happy we have that freedom in America.

You know what socialized health care does? It gives you the freedom of choosing a job based on where you want to work, not the one that will save you from bankruptcy if you make the 'mistake' of getting sick.

And of course, it's easy for a privileged person like you to pretend that everyone can just find a job that provides health care security. Care to let me know how someone in the projects with little economic opportunity is going to find a "safe, stable job" that provides cushy health benefits? Especially when people like you cheer on cuts to public education and resist much-needed minimum wage increases?