Zenmervolt
Elite member
- Oct 22, 2000
- 24,514
- 44
- 91
You need to prove that lack of money leads to "loud parties, mean pit bulls, blaring car radios, prostitution, drug dealing and muggings of schoolchildren." Until you do so, the fact remains: nobody wants to live near blacks, not even blacks.
So you honestly believe that everything else being equal, a wealthy, black person is somehow more inclined towards mugging school-aged children while a poor, white person isn't?
Well, Fuck you too.
If there's any group of people that anyone should want to avoid living around, it's people who go by the online handle, "ultra laser"
Capt Caveman
Lifer
- Jan 30, 2005
- 34,543
- 651
- 126
My next door neighbors are black. They lived next door prior to me moving in. One's a school teacher and the one next door is a surgeon. A block away is a housing project. Never had an issue with any of them. So, you're wrong.
I can definitely identify with the people from Antioch as my fiance has a house in Victorville, CA which is out in the middle of the southern cal boondocks. Over the last 2 years her neighborhood has been converted to about 50% section 8 as more and more people move out. Her neighborhood was once covered in green lush lawns, now half of the lawns are dead with cars parked on top of them. We also don't stay in her house that much anymore due to the 3am parties and kids walking around at night. In fact day after christmas there was a drive-by a block away that woke us up along with the requisite squad cars and searchlights that followed. She's lived in this house for over 10 years and the sudden influx of section 8'ers had a huge impact on the neighborhood. BTW, we're thinking about just walking away from that house as it's really hard to sell when prospective buyers see the 'hood on the way to the house.
The quickest way to improve this problem would be to get rid of the 2/3rd subsidizing. Simple fact of human nature: You don't appreciate what was given to you for free. To the guy from Mass who loves section 8, I'm pretty sure the demographics and culture of the people from the NE is quite different from So-cal when most of the transplants are coming from Compton/Watts area.
The quickest way to improve this problem would be to get rid of the 2/3rd subsidizing. Simple fact of human nature: You don't appreciate what was given to you for free. To the guy from Mass who loves section 8, I'm pretty sure the demographics and culture of the people from the NE is quite different from So-cal when most of the transplants are coming from Compton/Watts area.
Really? Who's tolerating it? Not only are the police not saying "nothing to see here, the kid was mugged by a Black", but they even formed a special squad.
Where did race enter into this story?
You're full of shit. Maybe the racists don't want to live near blacks, but you seem to think there's more of them than I do. All of the rest of the people, including law-abiding black people, don't have any problem living near other Black people. They don't want to live near criminals or bad neigbors, no matter what the color.
The bold would have been exactly true had you just substituted poor for blacks for the bolded...although, I suppose if you lived in an area where really only the black people were poor it would be true. But that would be a coincidence rather than a condemation of black people in general...
Chuck
Good to hear from someone with first hand experience living with section 8 instead of others telling us it's paradise there.
Bay Point used to be Shore Acres. The rep was so bad they changed the name. It is still a shithole no matter what it's called. Antioch was never all that great either but when the houses went up along Hillcrest the push for a town
more attractive to higher income began. Better freeways, Bart extension, shopping malls, lower crime rates, etc. The city isn't trying to run off black people, it's trying to run off criminals of any color, race and so forth.
BoomerD
No Lifer
- Feb 26, 2006
- 66,563
- 14,967
- 146
We did a pipeline job through some of the neighborhoods...near Bailey Rd north of Hwy 4...don't remember exactly the streets.
The few old-timers there who weren't afraid to come out of their houses talked about the high crime rate.."It so dammed bad, they steal the tires off your car while you drive down the street!"
Hookers and dope dealers on the corners, that kind of stuff.
I worked at USS/POSCO a few times over the years...not a great neighborhood either.
Some of it is...especially when it's as stupid as ultra loser's blatant biggotry.
Besides...you say "Racism" like it's a bad thing...why if it weren't for racism, all those Rednecks wouldn't have anything to watch on Sunday afternoons...
<vroom...and they're off!>
ericlp
Diamond Member
- Dec 24, 2000
- 6,139
- 236
- 106
Hahaha!
The churches couldn't be more happy about that!!! More people to give 5-10 bucks to the plate!
But, I found it funny...
I think section 8 is a scam, anyone want section 8 government assistance? Then they should make one state section 8 state, and move all there asses out there. If were going to spend my tax money on section 8, then I think that it should go to big low end compound buildings that are heavily policed and you have to check in to get there ... means no drugs or weapons... That way they everyone can be safe and get educated with out the gang killings you see today.
Arkaign
Lifer
- Oct 27, 2006
- 20,736
- 1,379
- 126
This is a very complex issue that couldn't be summed up in a post or even a thread.
Some facts, indisputable :
(1)- Violent crime and drug offenses are more common with poorer individuals.
(2)- Violent crime and drug offenses are more common with males.
(3)- Violent crime and drug offenses, on average, are more common with blacks.
(4)- Violent crime and drug offenses, on average, are more common with people under the age of ~35.
Now, taking that into account, you have a bunch of facts that can either fuel racism, fear, or a single-minded view of things, or you can just take it for what it is and try to live your own life accordingly.
IMHO, the two chief problems are poverty and a complete vacuum of culture in the modern youth community. Another chief catalyst is the lack of a functional family unit in many cases. In the 'me' generations, there's no connection to our country, to a sense of duty or identification with the national scene. This is essentially cynicism made into the ethos of our younger generations. Why is it that young black males tend to get into more trouble than other archetypes? I'm leaning towards the creation of an entire counterculture to replace the lack of identification with any other. Never before or anywhere else have I seen it so loftily idealized to be a gang-banging, bitch-slapping, drug-dealing thug. This sounds awfully racist, but it isn't. It's just the truth. Race and genetics have little to do with it. I see plenty of young black men succeed, primarily when they either have a significant role model in their life who rises above the petty bullshit and they pull themselves up as well, or when they just grow up under better circumstances and don't buy into the vapid thug-chic (non) culture. These same traits are common with other troubled but slightly less-common groups, like young hispanic males, or young redneck trailer park males. They simply have a very limited/cynical perspective, and latch onto cheap bullshit instead of formulating a balanced worldview.
Having all of the facts, does it makes sense to fear/hate a particular race due to the very real percentages and statistics that are out there? Not in the least. Does it make sense to take personal action in your life to avoid being victimized by the predators that emerge from every race by practicing common sense? Yes.
The real tragedy of the situation is that Americans of all races have countless leaders and role models of real substance to look up to and to formulate a culture and bond with, but our education system, media infrastructure, and disintegrating family bonds (hard to have family time when it takes both parents working full time just to maintain an average existence on average wages), it's hard to see that.
We lose sight of who we are and where we came from, and we lose ourselves in the end.
Some facts, indisputable :
(1)- Violent crime and drug offenses are more common with poorer individuals.
(2)- Violent crime and drug offenses are more common with males.
(3)- Violent crime and drug offenses, on average, are more common with blacks.
(4)- Violent crime and drug offenses, on average, are more common with people under the age of ~35.
Now, taking that into account, you have a bunch of facts that can either fuel racism, fear, or a single-minded view of things, or you can just take it for what it is and try to live your own life accordingly.
IMHO, the two chief problems are poverty and a complete vacuum of culture in the modern youth community. Another chief catalyst is the lack of a functional family unit in many cases. In the 'me' generations, there's no connection to our country, to a sense of duty or identification with the national scene. This is essentially cynicism made into the ethos of our younger generations. Why is it that young black males tend to get into more trouble than other archetypes? I'm leaning towards the creation of an entire counterculture to replace the lack of identification with any other. Never before or anywhere else have I seen it so loftily idealized to be a gang-banging, bitch-slapping, drug-dealing thug. This sounds awfully racist, but it isn't. It's just the truth. Race and genetics have little to do with it. I see plenty of young black men succeed, primarily when they either have a significant role model in their life who rises above the petty bullshit and they pull themselves up as well, or when they just grow up under better circumstances and don't buy into the vapid thug-chic (non) culture. These same traits are common with other troubled but slightly less-common groups, like young hispanic males, or young redneck trailer park males. They simply have a very limited/cynical perspective, and latch onto cheap bullshit instead of formulating a balanced worldview.
Having all of the facts, does it makes sense to fear/hate a particular race due to the very real percentages and statistics that are out there? Not in the least. Does it make sense to take personal action in your life to avoid being victimized by the predators that emerge from every race by practicing common sense? Yes.
The real tragedy of the situation is that Americans of all races have countless leaders and role models of real substance to look up to and to formulate a culture and bond with, but our education system, media infrastructure, and disintegrating family bonds (hard to have family time when it takes both parents working full time just to maintain an average existence on average wages), it's hard to see that.
We lose sight of who we are and where we came from, and we lose ourselves in the end.
or you can realize this is not a racial issue but a cultural issue and that we can all support the only sure solution to the problem, equal education for all.
Arkaign
Lifer
- Oct 27, 2006
- 20,736
- 1,379
- 126
I'm not sure education alone would solve the problem, though improvements in our education system are of paramount importance. I'm not sure you understood my post. Re-read. I didn't relegate the issue to pure racial levels, I examined many aspects and facets that reflect directly on the problems noted in the article in the OP. My thoughts clearly stated that I believe our national cultural void is a chief incendiary towards systemic problems.
You need to prove that all blacks have "loud parties, mean pit bulls, blaring car radios, prostitution, drug dealing and muggings of schoolchildren."
Until you do so, the fact remains: few people want to live near those things, which is not because of the race of the people, but the obnoxiousness of the acts.
And your reading comprhension is lacking - I said the urban poor *who behave badly*, not that all of them behave badly.
Or, you can commit yourself to social policies which improve the situation for the poor and reduce the related problems.
Does it make sense to choose policies that reduce poverty and the correlated problems? Yes.
Do many short-sighted wealthy people prefer propagandizing the public to oppose those policies, especially if it impacts things like their supply of cheap labor? Yes.
For all the thousands of posts by some people expressing how important the biblical values are to them on gay marriage, I see very few from them about its value against poverty.
The fact is that most people have some sense of concern about poverty, but too many let themselves be sold on the lies the powerful are all too happy to provide with perverse messages about how efforts to reduce poverty are actually harmful and such. 'Whew', with a sigh of relief, they can say how they're anti-poverty, and oppose the programs that would help reduce poverty. They get 'moral credit' for concer while not actually supporting any real solutions. That's tragic too.
Those sorts of myths are incredibly damaging. If someone has moral concerns come up about the killing in Vietnam, a myth about how we're actually saving lives by stopping communist expansion lets people ignore the issue. If Someone has concerns we don't invest enough in education, a myth that any additional money spent wouldn't help and would only go to the bureacrats lets people ignore the issue.
John Kennedy said:
well my family currently has 3 members..
we can get by on 1500-1700 a month (less if you want to get technical , but i raised the number a little)
20,400 a year
lets add an additional 500 dollars a month for rent because California is expensive..
26,400
now i divide that number by the number of people in the family and add it back to the total to account for a 4th person
35112
so for 5 people..40k wouldnt be enough (although it could be done)
but for 4 people its ok at least..
i dunno, not everyone on the planet can expect to make 60k+ takehome
it just isnt how the world works
If you are a family of 4 making $35k a year, at least in the large metro areas, you are poor...and if you don't consider that poor, then for d@mn sure you are at the absolute lowest boundary of middle class.
For a single person, $35k a year in the Chicagoland area gets you a tiny appt., either a cr@ppy new car/definitely well used decent one, and not much financial freedom. You either need to be splitting rent/everything else with someone, or, live very frugaly.
Chuck
For a single person, $35k a year in the Chicagoland area gets you a tiny appt., either a cr@ppy new car/definitely well used decent one, and not much financial freedom. You either need to be splitting rent/everything else with someone, or, live very frugaly.
Chuck
Zenmervolt
Elite member
- Oct 22, 2000
- 24,514
- 44
- 91
Who said anything about take-home pay? When I said $40,000, I meant earning $40,000 before taxes.
Also, who said anything about everyone making $60,000+ in take-home pay? That's a complete non-sequitur. I fully agree that it's possible to live frugally and raise a family on $40,000 (or sometimes even less) in pre-tax income. That doesn't make that family "middle class". Being "poor" doesn't mean that basic needs are not met, it merely means that one cannot afford having a significant savings.
By your math, a family of 4 making $40,000/year in pre-tax income would be living paycheck to paycheck with no substantial savings. Being "middle-class" entails having the ability to save a decent amount of one's income as well as having some amount of discretionary income, neither of which is easily achieved by a family of 4 with only $40,000 of pre-tax income.
ZV
tenthumbs
Senior member
- Oct 18, 2005
- 315
- 2
- 81
What you say about Antioch is very true. There are a lot of people, black and white, trying to maintain Antioch as a good family community.
BTW...Bay Point used to be West Pittsburg, not Shore Acres. Shore Acres is in between Bay Point and Port Chicago. You are right that the name was changed because of the horrible reputation of the city. Pittsburg isn't much better frankly but that's another topic.
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