Infinity Kappa Perfect vs. Alpine Type-R

[SLCentral]

Hey guys,

So I've been running a single 12" Kappa Perfect for the past year or so, and I've been pretty pleased with the results. It's being powered by an Alpine PDX-6.100 (600W "digital" amp), and it hit clean and deep.

Unfortunately, it looks like I blew the sub last week. The gain on my amp was set to about 75%, so I'm not sure if it was set too high, but regardless, it's time for a new sub.

Seeing as how I'm a BB employee, I get a pretty generous employee discount, especially on car audio. I can get the Kappa Perfect again, but it has to be ordered from Harman directly, and I'd incur $36 of shipping fees, plus I'd have to wait 3-4 weeks (seeing as how I'm in college, I'd love to be able to have a subwoofer for winter break, which is next week).

I can get the 12" Type-R for the same price as the Kappa Perfect, minus shipping costs (so $36 less), and that is available in the store. Am I going to lose much going from the Infinity to the Alpine? Right now I have a 1.25sqft 12" box. Can I use the same box for the Alpine, even though there are already drill holes from the Infinity?

Also, if I'm looking for a little more punch, should I go with a ten inch sub, and then add another one later? I'm not a huge fan of this idea, because I can't afford two 10" subs and a dual 10" box right now. I'd have to be running a single 10 for the time being.

Lastly, what kind of improvements would I see by adding a second 12" to my setup, and will my amp be able to power it sufficiently?

Thanks guys!

 

[BassBomb]

Both are great subs..

Type R is louder whereas the Kappa will have slightly better quality

 

[scott916]

Type R's are excellent subs. I don't think you'd be disappointed with their performance.

 

[Riverhound777]

Go with the Type R

 

[grimlykindo]

I have a 10" alpine type r in a little sealed box and nobody ever believes me when I say there's only one sub in my trunk...

I have it running of a kenwood excelon 900W @ 2ohms RMS and it hits hard notes on almost all music types

 

[cheesehead]

A friend of mine is a bit of an audio loony. He's tested a huge number of subs for distortion, energy storage, and power handling/compression, and quite likes the Kappa Perfects.

That said, if you want stupendous punch from a 10" driver, the Hi-Vi SP10 is excellent, and if you can find one, it's hard to do better than a TC Sounds unit.

Is your enclosure ported or sealed? If it's ported, you'll need to modify the port; if sealed, you should be okay.

 

[fbrdphreak]

I had a 10" Type R in a sealed box (whatever was on the shelf @ BBY at the time) for a while, pushed by maybe 500W RMS? I don't remember the exact amp. Can't compare the subs for you, but it was awesome. I don't really think you'd be disappointed with anything at that performance level.

 

[evident]

the alpine PDX is a good amp series, either choice will sound good with it. im still trying to swing a PDX 4.100 for my new Focal speakers i picked up at tweeter

 

[EightySix Four]

I used to work at a CarToys and sold this stuff for awhile, that said in my truck I had a pair of Kappa Perfect 12DVq. Loved them. As stated earlier the type-r will punch a bit harder than the Kappa Perfect's, but they have excellent sound quality and on the right amp will hit some seriously low notes. There was a note I didn't even know existed in one of my songs until I played it on them (I'm talking below the sub's standard range too, must have been 18-19hz). Ran them off an Infiniti sub amp that is just a rebadged JBL Crown series for cheap, I believe it was 1600 watts or so.

But having said that, in your situation just go with the Type-R, it makes more sense.

12inch subs are going to be better for rap type music that doesn't need the "punch" of a double bass pedal. 10 inch will be better for rock where it has to be able to keep up with the notes instead of just "bump."

 

[SLCentral]

I used to have a 10" Type-R, and it didn't quite do it for me, which is why I upgraded to the 12" Perfect. Hopefully I'll see the same sort of performance from the Type-R...I figure I'll give it a shot, and if anything, I'll return it and order the Kappa. I have a sealed 12" box now.

That said, can I use the same box, even though I already made drill holes for the Perfect? Do different manufacturers have their drill holes in different places? Stupid question, I know, but I'm pretty amateur with car audio.

Lastly, will the PDX be able to power two 12" type-R's, or I would I need to add another amp to do so?

Thanks again!

EDIT: I should say that I listen to pretty much exclusively rap in my car, which is why I'm looking for quality bass performance. Can't say the same about my home system. If it makes any difference, I'm running Kappa Perfect 6.1 component speakers up front (6.5"), and Kappa (6x9)'s in the back.

 

[BassBomb]

Type R comes in two different ohm settings, figure out which one you need

 

[SLCentral]

Originally posted by: BassBomb
Type R comes in two different ohm settings, figure out which one you need

Best Buy only carries the dual voice coil, which is a 4 ohm. Is that going to be okay for possibly doing two of these guys later? I know the PDX can run any ohm at the same rated wattage.

 

[BassBomb]

Originally posted by: SLCentral

Originally posted by: BassBomb
Type R comes in two different ohm settings, figure out which one you need

Best Buy only carries the dual voice coil, which is a 4 ohm. Is that going to be okay for possibly doing two of these guys later? I know the PDX can run any ohm at the same rated wattage.

Both versions are dual voice coil...

Either way I think you will be running at 300w X2 (one per coil) in whichever configuration (series / parallel) that works best for you

If you get two you'll probably do best with a second amp

 

[DomS]

I love me some kappa perfects.....sounds are so clear with them, I'm more about quality than loudness though....not that the kappa's won't bang

 

[SLCentral]

Originally posted by: BassBomb

Originally posted by: SLCentral

Originally posted by: BassBomb
Type R comes in two different ohm settings, figure out which one you need

Best Buy only carries the dual voice coil, which is a 4 ohm. Is that going to be okay for possibly doing two of these guys later? I know the PDX can run any ohm at the same rated wattage.

Both versions are dual voice coil...

Either way I think you will be running at 300w X2 (one per coil) in whichever configuration (series / parallel) that works best for you

If you get two you'll probably do best with a second amp

When you say "do best," are you implying that it can be done? I understand SQ won't be as good as it could be, but I'm not risking damaging anything?

 

[BassBomb]

Originally posted by: SLCentral

Originally posted by: BassBomb

Originally posted by: SLCentral

Originally posted by: BassBomb
Type R comes in two different ohm settings, figure out which one you need

Best Buy only carries the dual voice coil, which is a 4 ohm. Is that going to be okay for possibly doing two of these guys later? I know the PDX can run any ohm at the same rated wattage.

Both versions are dual voice coil...

Either way I think you will be running at 300w X2 (one per coil) in whichever configuration (series / parallel) that works best for you

If you get two you'll probably do best with a second amp

When you say "do best," are you implying that it can be done? I understand SQ won't be as good as it could be, but I'm not risking damaging anything?

If you ran two under one amp, they would likely be underpowered because your amp will likely be unable to dish out 250w x4

 

[EightySix Four]

Originally posted by: BassBomb

Originally posted by: SLCentral

Originally posted by: BassBomb

Originally posted by: SLCentral

Originally posted by: BassBomb
Type R comes in two different ohm settings, figure out which one you need

Best Buy only carries the dual voice coil, which is a 4 ohm. Is that going to be okay for possibly doing two of these guys later? I know the PDX can run any ohm at the same rated wattage.

Both versions are dual voice coil...

Either way I think you will be running at 300w X2 (one per coil) in whichever configuration (series / parallel) that works best for you

If you get two you'll probably do best with a second amp

When you say "do best," are you implying that it can be done? I understand SQ won't be as good as it could be, but I'm not risking damaging anything?

If you ran two under one amp, they would likely be underpowered because your amp will likely be unable to dish out 250w x4

The amp should be ok if he doesn't go nuts. He needs to set the gain carefully though. Class D amps clip something nasty. Actually, now that I think about it I never had power handling issues with my Kappa Perfect 12's. How loud was the music when you blew it? 75% gain is far too high and if you went too loud the amp may have clipped killing the Kappa Perfect.

 

[SLCentral]

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: BassBomb

Originally posted by: SLCentral

Originally posted by: BassBomb

Originally posted by: SLCentral

Originally posted by: BassBomb
Type R comes in two different ohm settings, figure out which one you need

Best Buy only carries the dual voice coil, which is a 4 ohm. Is that going to be okay for possibly doing two of these guys later? I know the PDX can run any ohm at the same rated wattage.

Both versions are dual voice coil...

Either way I think you will be running at 300w X2 (one per coil) in whichever configuration (series / parallel) that works best for you

If you get two you'll probably do best with a second amp

When you say "do best," are you implying that it can be done? I understand SQ won't be as good as it could be, but I'm not risking damaging anything?

If you ran two under one amp, they would likely be underpowered because your amp will likely be unable to dish out 250w x4

The amp should be ok if he doesn't go nuts. He needs to set the gain carefully though. Class D amps clip something nasty. Actually, now that I think about it I never had power handling issues with my Kappa Perfect 12's. How loud was the music when you blew it? 75% gain is far too high and if you went too loud the amp may have clipped killing the Kappa Perfect.

Volume was all the way up on the HU (which was set -8 dB from the limit). Speaker amp was set by turning HU to "max," then turning up the amp until distortion, and bringing it back a little bit.

The sub gain I kind of guessed on. I read about some steps to calculating the exact gain you need, but that requires buying other equipment :/.

 

[EightySix Four]

Originally posted by: SLCentral

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: BassBomb

Originally posted by: SLCentral

Originally posted by: BassBomb

Originally posted by: SLCentral

Originally posted by: BassBomb
Type R comes in two different ohm settings, figure out which one you need

Best Buy only carries the dual voice coil, which is a 4 ohm. Is that going to be okay for possibly doing two of these guys later? I know the PDX can run any ohm at the same rated wattage.

Both versions are dual voice coil...

Either way I think you will be running at 300w X2 (one per coil) in whichever configuration (series / parallel) that works best for you

If you get two you'll probably do best with a second amp

When you say "do best," are you implying that it can be done? I understand SQ won't be as good as it could be, but I'm not risking damaging anything?

If you ran two under one amp, they would likely be underpowered because your amp will likely be unable to dish out 250w x4

The amp should be ok if he doesn't go nuts. He needs to set the gain carefully though. Class D amps clip something nasty. Actually, now that I think about it I never had power handling issues with my Kappa Perfect 12's. How loud was the music when you blew it? 75% gain is far too high and if you went too loud the amp may have clipped killing the Kappa Perfect.

Volume was all the way up on the HU (which was set -8 dB from the limit). Speaker amp was set by turning HU to "max," then turning up the amp until distortion, and bringing it back a little bit.

The sub gain I kind of guessed on. I read about some steps to calculating the exact gain you need, but that requires buying other equipment :/.

More than likely it was the amp that was over it's maximum spec. The Kappa Perfect 12dvq has a 400rms as it's standard output power, but they CAN push a lot more in the right environment and music. More than likely with that level of gain the amp clipped killing off the sub. If you want that much bass you might want to go with a higher rated amplifier. I got to play with a Sundown Audio amp at one point and it was wonderful for the price, but I'm not sure what deals you get through BB.

 

[SLCentral]

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: SLCentral

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: BassBomb

Originally posted by: SLCentral

Originally posted by: BassBomb

Originally posted by: SLCentral

Originally posted by: BassBomb
Type R comes in two different ohm settings, figure out which one you need

Best Buy only carries the dual voice coil, which is a 4 ohm. Is that going to be okay for possibly doing two of these guys later? I know the PDX can run any ohm at the same rated wattage.

Both versions are dual voice coil...

Either way I think you will be running at 300w X2 (one per coil) in whichever configuration (series / parallel) that works best for you

If you get two you'll probably do best with a second amp

When you say "do best," are you implying that it can be done? I understand SQ won't be as good as it could be, but I'm not risking damaging anything?

If you ran two under one amp, they would likely be underpowered because your amp will likely be unable to dish out 250w x4

The amp should be ok if he doesn't go nuts. He needs to set the gain carefully though. Class D amps clip something nasty. Actually, now that I think about it I never had power handling issues with my Kappa Perfect 12's. How loud was the music when you blew it? 75% gain is far too high and if you went too loud the amp may have clipped killing the Kappa Perfect.

Volume was all the way up on the HU (which was set -8 dB from the limit). Speaker amp was set by turning HU to "max," then turning up the amp until distortion, and bringing it back a little bit.

The sub gain I kind of guessed on. I read about some steps to calculating the exact gain you need, but that requires buying other equipment :/.

More than likely it was the amp that was over it's maximum spec. The Kappa Perfect 12dvq has a 400rms as it's standard output power, but they CAN push a lot more in the right environment and music. More than likely with that level of gain the amp clipped killing off the sub. If you want that much bass you might want to go with a higher rated amplifier. I got to play with a Sundown Audio amp at one point and it was wonderful for the price, but I'm not sure what deals you get through BB.

Really? I'm not sure how much it means, but the amp came with a certificate saying it was tested up to 628W RMS...I'm not sure how inflated these numbers are though.

Are the Type-R's generally less "power-hungry" compared to the Kappa Perfects?

 

[EightySix Four]

The amp may have been individually tested to 628rms, but the KP subs could feasibly take a split second beating all the way up around 1000watts.

Now I may vary well be wrong about this since I never have received a proper explanation, but amplifiers push the power out no matter if what's on the other end "pulls" it or not. When you turn up the gain you are asking the amplifier to put out more power. Most speakers can handle more power than they are rated for, they just heat up very quickly doing so and this causes an increase in the potential for failure.

Most speaker failures come from the amplifier trying to push out far too much, when this happens the wave squares off. If the amp was putting out 3v's originally, it puts out 9 which destroys the speaker.

Basically it's a self control thing. Speakers which are more efficient put out more sound per watt pushed to them so they help with that. I was running Kappa perfect's off a 1211a which is capable of 1200watts RMS, and while the amp got hotter than hell, I never had issues with the two of them.

 

[SLCentral]

Originally posted by: crazySOB297
The amp may have been individually tested to 628rms, but the KP subs could feasibly take a split second beating all the way up around 1000watts.

Now I may vary well be wrong about this since I never have received a proper explanation, but amplifiers push the power out no matter if what's on the other end "pulls" it or not. When you turn up the gain you are asking the amplifier to put out more power. Most speakers can handle more power than they are rated for, they just heat up very quickly doing so and this causes an increase in the potential for failure.

Most speaker failures come from the amplifier trying to push out far too much, when this happens the wave squares off. If the amp was putting out 3v's originally, it puts out 9 which destroys the speaker.

Basically it's a self control thing. Speakers which are more efficient put out more sound per watt pushed to them so they help with that. I was running Kappa perfect's off a 1211a which is capable of 1200watts RMS, and while the amp got hotter than hell, I never had issues with the two of them.

Hmm...I guess I need to find some way to see what I should set the gain at for a 12" Type-R and that amp without blowing either.

 

[Smoove910]

It's distortion that kills speakers, not wattage.


Also, since you say you are an employee, can't you just drop one in your box you had for your Infinity and see how it sounds?

Just a thought.

 

[Snakexor]

SL, I have a 12" type r and my friend (my autotech) has a 10" kappa. The type r is "looser" compared to the 10" kappa, probably because of size, but that 10" hits just as hard as my 12". Both are on the same size m600 alpine amp. Both are in a sealed box. If you are listening to rap, go with the 12".

 

[SLCentral]

Originally posted by: Snakexor
SL, I have a 12" type r and my friend (my autotech) has a 10" kappa. The type r is "looser" compared to the 10" kappa, probably because of size, but that 10" hits just as hard as my 12". Both are on the same size m600 alpine amp. Both are in a sealed box. If you are listening to rap, go with the 12".

Hmm...this worries me. Like Smoove just said, I'm going to grab a 12" Type-R and see how it works, but it looks like i should be ready to return it and just order the Kappa Perfect. Damn...