Industry certs vs. formal education in the IT field

[Bacon_00]

Hey everybody. First post here!

I'm currently enrolled in a 2-year AAS program at a local community college in their "Computer Security and Network Technician" program. We're currently studying for our A+ cert, and next quarter we'll work on our Security+ cert. Later, we'll go for our Network+ cert. The program is a 5-quarter program, and I'm scheduled to be done in Fall of 2014.

Unlike many of my classmates, I have a 4-year BS (in Physiology) from a well respected state University (University of Washington). Prior to this I worked as a cop/Park Ranger in Yosemite National Park, but decided that law enforcement wasn't for me and am changing career paths.

But so far in my class, I'm extremely, painfully bored. I've been building and troubleshooting PCs since I was 12 (I'm 27 now), so spending an entire 5-hour school day talking about installing Windows is awful. I can barely pay attention I'm so bored.

The program also decided to teach to the Network+ cert instead of the higher-level CCNA cert because the CCNA was deemed "too difficult" and only for people with 5+ years of industry experience. I call BS on that and have started self-teaching myself the material. I took a CCNA prep course in high school, and feel like I can work towards a CCENT and then a CCNA quite realistically over the next 5-6 months. I've gotten a good textbook, am going to set up a home lab, installed and set-up GSN3/Dynamips, and bought the CBNuggets lecture series on the ICND100-101 CCENT exam. Most importantly, computers and networks have always made sense to me. I enjoy the material and am generally pretty good at learning it/using what I learn.

My fear is that if I go the self-teaching route, I'll get a job, but in 5 years when I'm up for promotion, my employer will be all "We'd love to promote you, but your lack of any formal degree in the field makes that an impossibility. Have fun at the help desk until you die."

tldr; my question is this: If I was to apply to work in the IT field with my CCNA, A+, and maybe my Security+, but no 2-year technical degree (but with a 4-year BS in an unrelated field), would I be setting myself up for a successful career? Or, should I stick out the 2-year program and get my AAS despite feeling like I can self-teach myself far more efficiently than this class is?

tldr;tldr; How important is a 2-year technical degree in the IT field compared to just having industry standard certs?

 

[JEDIYoda]

How important is a 2-year technical degree in the IT field compared to just having industry standard certs?

Let me put it this way....you like to eat??

 

[Bacon_00]

Really? It's that important? Even though I have a 4-year degree already? Not related to the field, but it's a degree and shows that I'm not a loser.

I'm just painfully bored in class. If I self-teach my CCNA within the next 6 months, I'll have far surpassed what they're going to be teaching in the last 3 quarters of the program. I'll have to go into debt to pay for a class that I'll sit and be bored out of my mind in. It just sounds like such a waste of time and money =/

 

[Nintendesert]

Why not look into a program that will allow you to complete school more quickly if you already know the material?

http://www.wgu.edu/online_it_degrees/information_technology_degree_networks_admin

Here's Western Governors University and their Network Admin 4 year degree. Depending on how much you know and how quickly you work I'm sure you can do it quicker than that. You'd end up getting quite a few certs a long the way too.

• Microsoft Certified Solutions Associate (MCSA)
• CIW Web Foundations Associate
• CIW Web Design Specialist
• CIW JavaScript Specialist
• CompTIA A+
• CompTIA Project+
• CompTIA Security+
• Microsoft Certified Technology Specialist (MCTS): Windows 7, Configuration
• Cisco Certified Entry Network Technician (CCENT)
• Cisco Certified Network Associate (CCNA®)
• Microsoft Technology Associate (MTA) Windows OS Fundamentals
• Microsoft Technology Associate (MTA) Networking Fundamentals
• Microsoft Technology Associate (MTA) Security Fundamentals

Here's a link to all their IT degrees.

http://www.wgu.edu/online_it_degrees/bachelor_degree_programs


I would rather change programs than just give it all up based on a bad and painfully slow experience.

 

[Bacon_00]

Oh wow, yeah, that looks way more interesting. A ton more certs, too, than what I'm gonna get if I stick with this 2-year program.

I'll definitely look into that. Might be way more than what I'm looking at.

 

[Nintendesert]

Oh wow, yeah, that looks way more interesting. A ton more certs, too, than what I'm gonna get if I stick with this 2-year program.

I'll definitely look into that. Might be way more than what I'm looking at.

Price is pretty cheap too. I think about 3,000-3,500 per 6 months of school based on the program. In that 6 months you can do as much as you want and can too and it's no extra charge.

 

[Vic Vega]

From my experience a degree is not required unless you want a senior position or a management position.

Certifications are good but experience is better.

 

[Wyndru]

From my experience a degree is not required unless you want a senior position or a management position.

Certifications are good but experience is better.

Lately I've been seeing more and more IT jobs requiring a minimum of a BS in an IT related field. Most entry levels used to accept associates, but over the last 2 years I haven't seen too many of those.

And regarding the certs (at least the CompTIA ones), a lot of them are only to get your foot in the door. For example, on their website they state that an A+ certification is equivalent to 6 months experience:

A+ Certification is a CompTIA-sponsored testing program that certifies the competency of entry-level (6 months experience) computer service technicians.

My previous boss actually suggested that I take the CompTIA certs off of my resume, since I already had experience and he told me it just comes off as unnecessary padding.

 

[Bacon_00]

Price is pretty cheap too. I think about 3,000-3,500 per 6 months of school based on the program. In that 6 months you can do as much as you want and can too and it's no extra charge.

Wow, yeah, the tuition is cheaper than my current program. I think overall I'd end up paying about $1000-1500 more (assuming I could get this program done in 1.5 years w/ my transfer credits. Be about $4000 more if I take 2 years, which isn't that awful), but I'd be getting four times the certifications as well as a 2nd bachelors.

Thanks a ton for linking me to this. I'm seriously considering it. It'd be a ton of work, and I'd need to be very self motivated, but I already have plans in place to take the next year off to work on school. If I'm gonna do that, I might as well take a challenging course, go at my own pace, and set myself up for a great career instead of an OK one.

 

[Nintendesert]

Wow, yeah, the tuition is cheaper than my current program. I think overall I'd end up paying about $1000-1500 more (assuming I could get this program done in 1.5 years w/ my transfer credits. Be about $4000 more if I take 2 years, which isn't that awful), but I'd be getting four times the certifications as well as a 2nd bachelors.

Thanks a ton for linking me to this. I'm seriously considering it. It'd be a ton of work, and I'd need to be very self motivated, but I already have plans in place to take the next year off to work on school. If I'm gonna do that, I might as well take a challenging course, go at my own pace, and set myself up for a great career instead of an OK one.

Glad I could help, good luck with whatever you decide. :thumbsup:

 

[theevilsharpie]

Really? It's that important? Even though I have a 4-year degree already? Not related to the field, but it's a degree and shows that I'm not a loser.

I'm just painfully bored in class. If I self-teach my CCNA within the next 6 months, I'll have far surpassed what they're going to be teaching in the last 3 quarters of the program. I'll have to go into debt to pay for a class that I'll sit and be bored out of my mind in. It just sounds like such a waste of time and money =/

Degrees are important (although less so than more mature professions), but it needs to be a B.S. for it to matter. Few employers are going to turn away someone with certs and and a Bachelor's in a non-tech subject, and the employers that will aren't going to be impressed by an Associate degree.

Certs are somewhat important, although with "The Cloud" and FOSS disrupting the existing enterprise IT market, their importance is diminishing. However, the only thing that matters is having the certs. No one is going to care how you got it, as long as you can demonstrate the competence that the cert is supposed to signify.

 

[SP33Demon]

If you're really that worried, finish your AA and then get a Master's in your new IT field since you already have a Bachelor's. Even better, have your future employer pay for the Master's. Nobody will give a shit about your Bachelor's after you get a Master's. You will have to take pre-req's though.

Getting another Bach is not the route you want to go at this point in your life. Unless it's really looked down upon in your sector then don't worry about it.

In addition, make sure you keep your certs active, but you knew that already.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

I just graduated with a bachelors in Comp Information Systems (CIS)-Cisco specialty. The program takes you through CCNP level certifications (although you have to do certs on your own, but you take courses for CCNA, CCNP, Wireless, basic VoIP, some QoS, etc). I also have my CCNA and working on CCNP certs now. I've been working in the industry for a bout a year doing network admin work. So here is my view on it being about the same age as you.

Looking around in the industry I don't feel like my degree is really going to be a massive benefit. And since you have a 4 year degree, I don't know if I'd pursue a second one in IT. It might matter if you want to get into management but even then it's more about the experience. And that's what the largest hurdle is to IT. Getting experience. There are 3 things that can be worked on/looked at for IT work. Experience, certs, and education in that order. Experience is most likely 60% of getting a job. Certs is 25%, but they only get you in the door as you have to be able to back them up and interview well still (which rolls back to experience). The last 15% or so is schooling. And that really is more of a "we only hire people with bachelors degrees" type of mindset that cares about education.

If I were you, and wanted to get into IT the first thing I'd do is start looking for entry level jobs. Look for smaller companies in your area as they are more likely going to hire a person without lots of experience, certs, or education as it's cheaper (and smaller companies can't afford to pay what those with exp/certs/education command). Not only that but you'll get a lot of experience with a lot of different things. It will also help you be in a good spot once you have the other parts of it. Hell even just a help desk type job. Really anything you can to get into IT. Depending on your position you can work with recruiters like Robert Half and do temp to hire jobs if you want. I'm personally not a fan of them, but that's just my own preference.

Check out places like Indeed.com, monster, etc. Update your resume to make it tech focused as much as possible. Project work is good as well generally. As is able to work independently without a lot of supervision. Create a profile on LinkedIn and see if you have any friends in IT that you can friend on it. Start applying to every job you're remotely qualified for. The worst they can do is not call.

So, TLDR version: regardless of schooling, find a job in the industry ASAP. Secondary to that is education/certs. But certs are the next important thing IMO. Finally is the education. If you want to do both through like that online program then take that route. It gives you a 4 year IT degree+certs.

PS- outside of tech desk/support jobs A+ doesn't do much. Security+ is even worse. CompTIA stuff I don't even list on my own resume for this reason. CCNA is pretty easy (CCENT is a lot of subnetting, cabling, and about the same as a network+ degree just Cisco stuff thrown in, ICND2 for the full CCNA is more protocol based but not too bad either) if you want to do networking. Otherwise VMWare certs are very good to have if you want that direction, and MS stuff is good basic foot in the door deal. SQL and programming languages have their own things but it sounds like you want more hardware level than application level like a DBA.

Good luck. Hope this helped.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

If you're really that worried, finish your AA and then get a Master's in your new IT field since you already have a Bachelor's. Even better, have your future employer pay for the Master's. Nobody will give a shit about your Bachelor's after you get a Master's. You will have to take pre-req's though.

Getting another Bach is not the route you want to go at this point in your life. Unless it's really looked down upon in your sector then don't worry about it.

In addition, make sure you keep your certs active, but you knew that already.

Oh and I'd agree here. The bachelors you already have is all 95% of employers will care about. It won't matter it's not IT related. Many of the really good people I have worked with have no degree in IT either. A masters I think is overkill for most IT jobs as well. But I'd agree in getting your masters in IT over getting a second bachelors degree.

 

[yllus]

My working hypothesis on four year degrees in tech is as follows:

You're probably not any more ready for your field than someone who doesn't have a degree. But I probably can put you on a long project with lots of boring little details and occasional moments of high stress and expect that you'll emerge on the other side - because you've got experience doing exactly that in getting that four year degree.

It's not a guarantee, but it is a signal.

 

[SagaLore]

You already have a 4yr degree, yes you can skip the extra 2 year and just go for the certs.

Is there such a thing as a masters beyond the 4yr you already got?

 

[SagaLore]

Oh and I'd agree here. The bachelors you already have is all 95% of employers will care about. It won't matter it's not IT related. Many of the really good people I have worked with have no degree in IT either. A masters I think is overkill for most IT jobs as well. But I'd agree in getting your masters in IT over getting a second bachelors degree.

When I'm hiring I intentionally look for degrees that aren't in IT, but also have some IT certs and job experience. My experience is those people have better critical thinking skills.

 

[Bateluer]

To the OP, I'm sure the school's program is fine. But, in your case, you'd probably wasting time and money. Pick up a few self study books for A+, Network+, and Security+, then take the exams for each. You could probably pass the A+ now, but a good book should shore up any weak points in your knowledge.

 

[unokitty]

Hey everybody. First post here!

I'm currently enrolled in a 2-year AAS program at a local community college in their "Computer Security and Network Technician" program. We're currently studying for our A+ cert, and next quarter we'll work on our Security+ cert. Later, we'll go for our Network+ cert. The program is a 5-quarter program, and I'm scheduled to be done in Fall of 2014.

Since you already have a 4 yr degree, I would suggest that you develop some evidence that you can do IT work rather than try and get a 2 yr degree.

Well respected certifications, such as CCNA or CISSP, can help with that. But they are move valuable when combined with work experience.

If you were 17 or 18, the program you are in might not be a bad deal. And, if the school can provide access to CISCO equipment for your self study labs that could be valuable as well.

While I don't have any personal experience, I have heard good things from a few people about WGU's IT program. Though, in your case, I would suggest that you also research their Master's Programs. Might be quicker than getting a second Bachelor's degree.

Any work experience, even part time, would be very helpful. You might see if the Community College you are at can offer you an internship...

Best of luck,
Uno

 

[child of wonder]

Not having an IT degree won't hurt you much at all. I know a guy with no degree period but thanks to years of experience in networking and certifications he pulls down $95k.

Experience and certifications are what counts to most employers. You'll run into a few here and there that make a stink about not having a Bachelor's in IT but they likely aren't worth working for anyway.

The biggest thing is identifying trends in IT and getting on them early. I'm 7 years out from my 2 year degree in IT and have turned it into an extraordinary career thanks to getting into VMware immediately in 2006 and becoming certified.

 

[Bacon_00]

Hey thanks for the great replies everybody! Given me a ton to think about.

I think what I've decided based on my boredom in class and all the feedback is that my AA program is a waste of time for me. I thought it was going to be much more of a challenge than it has been. Looking ahead in the curriculum I see that I'll have pretty much surpassed it when I finish my CCENT.

I am, though, still leaning towards doing this WGU program. A 2nd bachelors is a bit superfluous, I'll agree, but it won't take me 4 years to get it. Since all my gen-ed requirements are done, plus 15 credits from this AA program (and a couple of certs, hopefully!) I'm pretty confident that I could knock it out in a year to a year and a half, which is within the timetable I'd already set aside for this AA program. So even if it isn't entirely necessary, I'll come out of it with those 13 certs and some confidence to speak from in job interviews. I don't really know what area of IT I want to work in, aside from networking, so having a broad spectrum of certs and a 2nd degree would give me a lot of confidence and options, I feel. The way I see it, it can only help.

But, I am still considering just doing self-study with no formal program. The problem with that is that part of me is like "if you're gonna spend the time to earn the certs, might as well earn a 2nd degree at the same time."

Once I get my A+ and CCENT (hopefully by September), I'll start applying to jobs. I definitely agree that I need experience more than anything, so it makes sense to start looking for work ASAP. If it turns out that I get a good job and the WGU program isn't doing anything for me, I can dump it. $2800 down the drain, but I could get a few more certs (like my CCNA) out of it easy. If it is still helping me, then I can do it on my own time while I work. Might take me 3 years instead of 1, but big deal. The tuition is relatively cheap, so in the grand scheme of things paying for tuition while I work isn't going to dramatically affect my life.

I'm not sure about Master's programs. I'll look into them more, but none I've found are particularly appealing. There is one at the University of WA, but they don't admit until Fall 2014 =/

Anyway, thanks again for the replies! I'd definitely like to read more opinions/thoughts if anybody has any.

 

[Juddog]

From my experience a degree is not required unless you want a senior position or a management position.

Certifications are good but experience is better.

^^ This is true; nobody cared that I only had an associates until I tried to get into management, then all of a sudden it was a big deal that I didn't have a Bachelors.

 

[rudder]

You already have a 4yr degree, yes you can skip the extra 2 year and just go for the certs.

Is there such a thing as a masters beyond the 4yr you already got?

I would say look through current job listings. Some may specify a degree that is specifically in IT... where I have also seen jobs that say experience and certs can substitute for the IT degree. So it is really hard to say whether it is good to skip or not.

I am in IT now, my degree is totally something different and not related to IT in anyway. Having an actual degree was a prerequisite for my job but it didn't matter that it was not in IT. But industry wide who knows what HR departments want.

 

[Bacon_00]

Yeah, see, that's what I'm worried about. If I DO want to move into management someday, which I probably will, I don't want to be held back by a decision I make now. Probably my BS I already have would be perfectly sufficient, but I'm just nervous that if I forego spending a year now getting a little bit more formal education, it'll come back to haunt me.

 

[Bacon_00]

I would say look through current job listings. Some may specify a degree that is specifically in IT... where I have also seen jobs that say experience and certs can substitute for the IT degree. So it is really hard to say whether it is good to skip or not.

I am in IT now, my degree is totally something different and not related to IT in anyway. Having an actual degree was a prerequisite for my job but it didn't matter that it was not in IT. But industry wide who knows what HR departments want.

Yup, again, I've seen a lot of job postings that say they want IT degrees. Now, this might not mean I wouldn't make it through HR, but it just makes me nervous. If dude-bro with an IT degree + all the same certs I have applies to a job, my Biology degree may or may not look as appealing to the hiring staff. Granted it's a good, solid science degree and I had to take a lot of advanced classes to get it, but it isn't IT. I can totally see that biting me in the butt at some point.