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Indonesian mayor (Muslim) resists building of church.

I

iGas

Diamond Member
Indonesian mayor resists building of church

Despite losing all legal battles, mayor says he cannot allow a church to be built on a street with an Islamic name.

Christian worshipers have been forced to pray in the open air in a town in Indonesia's West Java province after the town's majority Muslim population opposed the building of a church.

After losing all legal battles, including a verdict from country's highest court, the mayor says he cannot allow a church to be built on a street with an Islamic name.

The national ombudsman has given the mayor two more weeks to implement the supreme court's decision and let the congregation build its church.

The standoff is being seen as a national test case of religious tolerance, with recent research showing a growing number of Muslims are against the presence of a church in their neighbourhood.
Al Jazeera's Step Vaessen reports from Bogor, in West Java.
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Indonesia: Thousands of enraged Muslims attack Christian center, destroy cars, burn buildings

Why? There were rumors that the Christians were going to build a church. Sharia forbids Christians to build new churches or repair old ones. "West Java, thousands of Islamic extremists attack a Christian center," by Mathias Hariyadi for AsiaNews, April 28 (thanks to Block Ness):
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I don't believe in religion, but I believe that people should have the right to their own believe, and build what the hell they want as long as it is not infringing on my safety or rights.

I hope that the American Muslim council speak to their faith brothers in Indonesia and preach humility and tolerance as American have done in NY.

PS. I was in Bogor a few month back, and IMHO the Bogor & Aceh Muslim are extremist. There has been clashes including death of Muslim, but mainly Christian & Chinese in many parts of Indonesia. Bogor and Aceh are the 2 main hot beds.
 
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iGas said:
Indonesian mayor resists building of church



Indonesia: Thousands of enraged Muslims attack Christian center, destroy cars, burn buildings


I don't believe in religion, but I believe that people should have the right to their own believe, and build what the hell they want as long as it is not infringing on my safety or rights.

I hope that the American Muslim council speak to their faith brothers in Indonesia and preach humility and tolerance as American have done in NY.

PS. I was in Bogor a few month back, and IMHO the Bogor & Aceh Muslim are extremist. There has been clashes including death of Muslim, but mainly Christian & Chinese in many parts of Indonesia, but Bogor and Aceh are the 2 main hot beds.
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A rational way to read this might be to notice the parallels - a mayor discriminating against a minority, the Supreme Court luckily doing the 'right thing'.

The way some here would view it is as justifying their doing the same things. "SEE! THOSE SCUMBAGS! WE'RE RIGHT NOT TO LET THEM BUILD A MOSQUE!!!"
 
This is as stupid as the stories of anti-mosque intolerance here in the US. People should be able to believe what they want and build what they want. The presence of things you don't like in your society doesn't infringe on your rights, no matter what some people would like you to believe.
 
I agree with Craig234, if all the Islamic mayor has in his arsenal, Christians should be able to build their church in a New Neighborhood and a new street with no prior Islamic name as a possible compromise.

Christian and Muslims have exactly the same goal, and that is to give their children a better future. Co operation is always better than confrontation , and religious bigotry is older than dirt.

There is nothing in the Christian bible or the Islamic Koran that suggests that founders of either religion suggesting their followers kill others for their religious beliefs. But then again there are some passages in both religions, that imply the opposite, thus making it ever more confusing.

All we know from history is that when bigotry confronts bigotry, we end up with counterproductive blood baths, as each side makes their children's lives worse.
 
I'm glad I live in America where we aren't stupid enough to protest the construction of religious buildings... oh wait... So we're only some degree less evil than them well that's something to be proud of.
 
AyashiKaibutsu said:
I'm glad I live in America where we aren't stupid enough to protest the construction of religious buildings... oh wait... So we're only some degree less evil than them well that's something to be proud of.
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I get your point, but protesting 1 Mosque in New York is apples and oranges to this situation. For 1, obviously Muslims caused 9/11 and building a Mosque so close to the genocide zone is controversial. Besides that 1 single Mosque in NYC, there are thousands built each year in this country.

This case in Indonesia is common as fuck over there, and its common as hell in most Muslim countries. They freak out at the very thought that other religions exist and its also common for "mobs" of Muslims to torch churches. If that Church is built on that street, I guarantee it will be torched within a month.
 
peonyu said:
I get your point, but protesting 1 Mosque in New York is apples and oranges to this situation.
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Yes it's a lot more ridiculous as we, unlike a lot of Muslim countries, are not a theocratic Society who's government is more concerned with anothers faith yet there are morons, many leading theTea Party, who would put us there.
 
Why? There were rumors that the Christians were going to build a church. Sharia forbids Christians to build new churches or repair old ones.
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No it does not ...
 
Red Dawn said:
Yes it's a lot more ridiculous as we, unlike a lot of Muslim countries, are not a theocratic Society who's government is more concerned with anothers faith yet there are morons, many leading theTea Party, who would put us there.
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Yes, let's throw in the Tea Party name to stereotypically bash real conservatives.

You realize of course, they preach the very definition of liberal. To remove government from the equation. To enact the greatest extent of liberty possible. In that case, government would have no say in religious practices.

So therein is your dilemma. Do you actually believe in and support freedom as your pretense would claim? If that were true then you need to stop helping your enemy and support the Tea Party against the GOP. Support the fiscal conservative over the social conservative.
 
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Jaskalas said:
Yes, let's throw in the Tea Party name to stereotypically bash real conservatives.

You realize of course, they preach the very definition of liberal. To remove government from the equation. To enact the greatest extent of liberty possible. In that case, government would have no say in religious practices.

So therein is your dilemma. Do you actually believe in and support freedom as your pretense would claim? If that were true then you need to stop helping your enemy and support the Tea Party against the GOP. Support the fiscal conservative over the social conservative.
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Really?

So human sacrifices can't be interfered with by the government? The marriage of 8 year old girls to 60 year old men? Sending money to terrorist groups?

No say.

They did a study of many factors about tea party people. The #2 predictor of whether a person would be a tea party Republican:

Agreeing with the statement 'government should follow religion more in its policies'.

(#1 predictor was having been a Republican as the previous party; 80% were.)
 
Islam is far more tolerated in traditionally Christian countries than the other way around. nice try though apologists...
 
Infohawk said:
Islam is far more tolerated in traditionally Christian countries than the other way around. nice try though apologists...
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And I believe that we're never going to get anywhere as long as we're more interested in making broad political points than dealing with individual cases. Yes, in a broad sense it's better that America has fewer cases of this kind of religious intolerance than Indonesia (assuming that's really true), but the individual cases are all equally offensive. It's not worse when another case happens in a country known for it, and it's not better if a case happens in a country where it's relatively rare.
 
Jaskalas said:
Yes, let's throw in the Tea Party name to stereotypically bash real conservatives.

You realize of course, they preach the very definition of liberal. To remove government from the equation. To enact the greatest extent of liberty possible. In that case, government would have no say in religious practices.

So therein is your dilemma. Do you actually believe in and support freedom as your pretense would claim? If that were true then you need to stop helping your enemy and support the Tea Party against the GOP. Support the fiscal conservative over the social conservative.
Click to expand...

Call me a cynical bastard, but I think the real dilemma is how full of shit you think the Tea Party is when they talk about freedom and liberty.
 
Kadarin said:
Whether or not Sharia actually allows this isn't relevant if people believe it does, and act on that belief.
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You can't blame the law, blame the people ... Those who oppress other people and other religions in the name of their religion are comiting blasphemy and are total idiots.
 
Jaskalas said:
You realize of course, they preach the very definition of liberal. To remove government from the equation. To enact the greatest extent of liberty possible.
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Except medicare. And medicaide. And the military. And abortion. And drugs. Shall I go on?

It's constantly amazing to me how good you Americans are at just ignoring facts. Just pretending they don't exist.
 
Lemon law said:
I agree with Craig234, if all the Islamic mayor has in his arsenal, Christians should be able to build their church in a New Neighborhood and a new street with no prior Islamic name as a possible compromise.

Christian and Muslims have exactly the same goal, and that is to give their children a better future. Co operation is always better than confrontation , and religious bigotry is older than dirt.

There is nothing in the Christian bible or the Islamic Koran that suggests that founders of either religion suggesting their followers kill others for their religious beliefs. But then again there are some passages in both religions, that imply the opposite, thus making it ever more confusing.

All we know from history is that when bigotry confronts bigotry, we end up with counterproductive blood baths, as each side makes their children's lives worse.
Click to expand...

When Muslims say there is only one god, Allah, they mean exactly that. Modern day Islam has much in comparison to what Christianity used to be like in the 9th century.

They are a relatively new religion, and are going through the exact same hurdles of ideology that Christianity and Judaism went through. The majority of Muslims still believe the purest form of Islam was what was practiced in the 7th century.
 
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