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Indictments to flow when?

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fskimospy said:
It's weird that you continually deny collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russian government when they literally publicly confessed to collusion and then provided emails proving their collusion.

While it is true that Don Jr. wasn't indicted for colluding with the Russian government the reason given is that the crime requires him to know that colluding with the Russian government was a crime and they had trouble establishing that. ie: ignorance was in fact a defense to criminal activity. There is zero doubt though -absolutely zero- that Trump's campaign colluded with the Russians. It is a fact.


You realize hearsay is evidence and is used in court cases all the time, right?
Click to expand...
So it's a fact but wasn't a crime? End result is exactly the same.
The bottom line is that there was an exhaustive investigation, and the only thing that came out of it was the lead investigator getting fired.

I'm extremely jaded about Trump investigations. For years a week didn't go by without hearing "the walls are closing in" or "the beginning of the end", they even used "the smoking gun" now and then. It all amounted to nothing. Not a single charge filed against Trump. Then we had New York stepping up to the plate. The heavy hitters were going to take Trump down using his own tax returns to do it. They fought the grand battle and won, they got his returns. Now they're closing up shop without handing him a parking ticket. Great job boy's and girls.
Next we have the capitol riot simmering, and a lot of effort being expended to tie it to Trump. I have no idea what the outcome will be, but I'd bet even money he doesn't see a single day in jail.
So is Trump a lucky idiot, a criminal master mind, or just another asshole that pushes the limits but never crosses the line?
I no longer buy the rhetoric, it's all been wishful thinking and spin. I'll believe it the day I see a conviction by a jury. Until then it's all just noise.
 
Greenman said:
So it's a fact but wasn't a crime? End result is exactly the same.
The bottom line is that there was an exhaustive investigation, and the only thing that came out of it was the lead investigator getting fired.

I'm extremely jaded about Trump investigations. For years a week didn't go by without hearing "the walls are closing in" or "the beginning of the end", they even used "the smoking gun" now and then. It all amounted to nothing. Not a single charge filed against Trump. Then we had New York stepping up to the plate. The heavy hitters were going to take Trump down using his own tax returns to do it. They fought the grand battle and won, they got his returns. Now they're closing up shop without handing him a parking ticket. Great job boy's and girls.
Next we have the capitol riot simmering, and a lot of effort being expended to tie it to Trump. I have no idea what the outcome will be, but I'd bet even money he doesn't see a single day in jail.
So is Trump a lucky idiot, a criminal master mind, or just another asshole that pushes the limits but never crosses the line?
I no longer buy the rhetoric, it's all been wishful thinking and spin. I'll believe it the day I see a conviction by a jury. Until then it's all just noise.
Click to expand...
So to be clear you’re now in agreement that Trump’s campaign colluded with the Russian government?

You are of course welcome to think that because they felt they couldn’t prove that Don Jr. was aware his conduct was illegal that it doesn’t matter. I personally think colluding with hostile foreign governments to get help winning an election is extremely bad even if you don’t know it’s a crime.

I suspect the 1/6 committee will refer Trump for prosecution. What the DOJ does with that, not sure. The main issue here is our criminal code doesn’t have specific laws that cover the sitting president attempting to end democracy.
 
fskimospy said:
I suspect Eastman will be referred for indictment by the 1/6 committee. I don't think the DOJ is going to act until after their report.
Click to expand...
As of now the final report won't be released until Fall, just in time for the takeover of Congress by the GQP and it being buried and replaced by investigations into Hunter. Repubs are stalling until then and so far it's working.
 
soundforbjt said:
As of now the final report won't be released until Fall, just in time for the takeover of Congress by the GQP and it being buried and replaced by investigations into Hunter. Repubs are stalling until then and so far it's working.
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If the GOP takes over Congress it wouldn't be until January so that doesn't make any sense.

Also the closer the report is to the election the better for reasons that should be obvious.
 
fskimospy said:
If the GOP takes over Congress it wouldn't be until January so that doesn't make any sense.

Also the closer the report is to the election the better for reasons that should be obvious.
Click to expand...
Because if it’s released in the Fall, no actions will take place for months or more because the wheels of justice turn so slowly.
 
Greenman said:
So it's a fact but wasn't a crime? End result is exactly the same.
The bottom line is that there was an exhaustive investigation, and the only thing that came out of it was the lead investigator getting fired.

I'm extremely jaded about Trump investigations. For years a week didn't go by without hearing "the walls are closing in" or "the beginning of the end", they even used "the smoking gun" now and then. It all amounted to nothing. Not a single charge filed against Trump. Then we had New York stepping up to the plate. The heavy hitters were going to take Trump down using his own tax returns to do it. They fought the grand battle and won, they got his returns. Now they're closing up shop without handing him a parking ticket. Great job boy's and girls.
Next we have the capitol riot simmering, and a lot of effort being expended to tie it to Trump. I have no idea what the outcome will be, but I'd bet even money he doesn't see a single day in jail.
So is Trump a lucky idiot, a criminal master mind, or just another asshole that pushes the limits but never crosses the line?
I no longer buy the rhetoric, it's all been wishful thinking and spin. I'll believe it the day I see a conviction by a jury. Until then it's all just noise.
Click to expand...

We've talked about what's behind the lack of indictments ad nauseam over the past 2 years since the final Mueller reports/Senate Intel reports became public:

1) Mueller decided it wasn't his job to prosecute crimes by Trump or anyone else in the White House. He applied a very very narrow scope to his investigation based on DoJ precedent, and he even acknowledges this in the report.

2) The FBI dropped their investigation once the special counsel investigation got underway. This has never been fully explained, but basically FBI dropped the ball when they knew full well that a special counsel investigation did not preclude them from continuing to investigate Crossfire Hurricane or any other crimes related to collusion. What's even more fucked up--they dropped their investigation without telling anyone in Mueller's camp. Mueller's team kept referring individuals to Justice thinking they would prosecute, and didn't know until much later that those investigations had stalled. Likely the AG or WH themselves sabotaged this but no one has proven anything.

3) January 6 is a bigger deal than Russian collusion. Period. While Biden could've revived these investigations into Russia, everyone agrees that by 2021 it's a moot point compared with insurrection and possible coup attempts.
 
UNCjigga said:
We've talked about what's behind the lack of indictments ad nauseam over the past 2 years since the final Mueller reports/Senate Intel reports became public:

1) Mueller decided it wasn't his job to prosecute crimes by Trump or anyone else in the White House. He applied a very very narrow scope to his investigation based on DoJ precedent, and he even acknowledges this in the report.

2) The FBI dropped their investigation once the special counsel investigation got underway. This has never been fully explained, but basically FBI dropped the ball when they knew full well that a special counsel investigation did not preclude them from continuing to investigate Crossfire Hurricane or any other crimes related to collusion. What's even more fucked up--they dropped their investigation without telling anyone in Mueller's camp. Mueller's team kept referring individuals to Justice thinking they would prosecute, and didn't know until much later that those investigations had stalled. Likely the AG or WH themselves sabotaged this but no one has proven anything.

3) January 6 is a bigger deal than Russian collusion. Period. While Biden could've revived these investigations into Russia, everyone agrees that by 2021 it's a moot point compared with insurrection and possible coup attempts.
Click to expand...
The more of what Wray has said/not said since Jan. 6, the more he looks like a stealth Trumper.
 
hal2kilo said:
The more of what Wray has said/not said since Jan. 6, the more he looks like a stealth Trumper.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure most of those shenanigans happened under Barr. Somehow Mueller's team was led to believe the FBI would be investigating crimes related to obstruction of justice or the original investigation, while the FBI investigators were on permanent standby.
 
fskimospy said:
Right but those actions wouldn’t be by congress anyway, they would be by the DOJ.
Click to expand...

I guess you didn’t see how the last Republican president handled the DOJ. I’ll give you a hint: they broke a lot of norms. I’m really surprised you of all people would have this much faith in the DOJ under Republican control.
 
ivwshane said:
I guess you didn’t see how the last Republican president handled the DOJ. I’ll give you a hint: they broke a lot of norms. I’m really surprised you of all people would have this much faith in the DOJ under Republican control.
Click to expand...
I didn’t realize republicans would control the DOJ in 2023.
 
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