India's Caste System Still an Obstacle to Modernization

[Baasha]

Because you make your people look like primitive barbaric animals? That would be my first guess if I had some kind of cultural link in common with you. (thankfully I do not but I sure learned a lot today about Hindi fundamentalists, you guys are not much different then our bigots here -just a bit more open about it)

there you go mouthing off again.. Hindi is a language you imbecile.. see what I mean? .. untouchables .. tsk tsk..

 

[Baasha]

Your actions define your Varna. Again you are never born into a Varna.

You're completely wrong there. Varna is birth, character, and action based.. the present birth is a result of previous "character(s)" and "action(s)"; it's cyclical, not linear.

According to sastra's, a Brahmin should not leave his birth place and settle in a different location.. all the FOB Brahmin's you see in different countries are not considered Brahmin's according to Hinduism. Next time you visit a temple, ask the Priest his location of birth.

Only according to certain sampradayas.... perhaps the most orthodox like Namboodri and Iyer/Iyengar.. yes.. any place outside of Bharatvarsh is supposedly "mleccha-desh" and our Priest was in Sankara Mutt for 14 years in Kanchi.. if he is considered a 'non-Brahmin'.. LOL.. that would be quite funny

 

[Steeplerot]

there you go mouthing off again.. Hindi is a language you imbecile.. see what I mean? .. untouchables .. tsk tsk..

It actually shows that I couldn't care less about your old goatherder religions on the other side of the world.

 

[Baasha]

Seeing how your military performed during that terrorist attack a few years back I would check the wind direction first.

So 10 terrorist scumbags who kill children and women and unarmed civilians are being praised now? Such lows can be reached only by the likes of you.

 

[Steeplerot]

So 10 terrorist scumbags who kill children and women and unarmed civilians are being praised now? Such lows can be reached only by the likes of you.

You mean the soldiers who totally botched that whole deal? Yeah they did risk childrens lives by being incompetent and piss poorly trained. What the hell is wrong with you "upper class" folks? You sure dont have your shit together running your own country or training people.

Not a good idea, seeing as you have some pretty badass neighbors.

 

[Baasha]

It actually shows that I couldn't care less about your old goatherder religions on the other side of the world.

but you do care about corpse-worshiping religions like the one you follow..

 

[Steeplerot]

but you do care about corpse-worshiping religions like the one you follow..

Religion is for backwards superstitious people, this is 2011. Do you still believe in children's stories also?

Grow up and take responsibility for your own life on earth instead of using stories about invisible people and magical energies to explain why think you deserve to be an asshole to other people. Those old stories are so long ago the people who wrote that stuff were too primitive to know how to screw in a lightbulb or wipe their ass without a leaf.

They have no business in the modern world but to give excuses to hate one another.

 

[busydude]

Varna is birth, character, and action based.. the present birth is a result of previous "character(s)" and "action(s)"; it's cyclical, not linear.

Yes, but one can become a Brahmin just by his "deeds" during a lifetime. A person born in a Brahmin family.. can become a Kshatriya due to his actions.. during his life time. It is not a rigid rule.

Yama, in an avatar of Yaksha.. asks Yudhistira a set of questions.. in one of them he asks " What makes a Brahmin?"

Answer:

http://nexuslearning.net/books/HoltWorldLit/Hundred%20Questions.pdf

One a side note, are you watching the match between India and England? IIRC, it start's in about 3-4 hours.. I hope they kick Eng's ass.

 

[Baasha]

Yes, but one can become a Brahmin just by his "deeds" during a lifetime. A person born in a Brahmin family.. can become a Kshatriya due to his actions.. during his life time. It is not a rigid rule.

Yama, in an avatar of Yaksha.. asks Yudhistira a set of questions.. in one of them he asks " What makes a Brahmin?"

Answer:

http://nexuslearning.net/books/HoltWorldLit/Hundred%20Questions.pdf

One a side note, are you watching the match between India and England? IIRC, it start's in about 3-4 hours.. I hope they kick Eng's ass.

Yes I am aware of this example as well as a few others such as VajrasUchikA UpaniSad and Katha UpaniSad which talk about the qualities of the person rather than lineage..

I don't want to derail this thread, actually, I'm done with this thread as it is too provocative, into a discussion about the philosophy behind caste.

The simple answer is that there is no simple answer. Each interpretation maintains its validity based on the SastrAs and that is how it is. In fact, they say that VarnASramA should not be applied in Kali Yuga so it is best to leave it at that.

I do agree caste has been abused over the past few centuries however that does NOT invalidate caste.. casteism does not equal caste..

 

[Baasha]

One a side note, are you watching the match between India and England? IIRC, it start's in about 3-4 hours.. I hope they kick Eng's ass.

Dude, I wish.. I still haven't found a good channel/stream for watching it here.. I really wish I had DirecTV right now.. ARRGH>.

I hope they beat England's ass too.. hehe.. should be a really good one.. with Viru scoring 175.. can't wait to see the highlights at least..

 

[busydude]

Yes I am aware of this example as well as a few others such as VajrasUchikA UpaniSad and Katha UpaniSad which talk about the qualities of the person rather than lineage..

I don't want to derail this thread, actually, I'm done with this thread as it is too provocative, into a discussion about the philosophy behind caste.

The simple answer is that there is no simple answer. Each interpretation maintains its validity based on the SastrAs and that is how it is. In fact, they say that VarnASramA should not be applied in Kali Yuga so it is best to leave it at that.

I do agree caste has been abused over the past few centuries however that does NOT invalidate caste.. casteism does not equal caste..

Yup, I agree to what you have said. The modern interpretation of caste is not the way it is meant to be understood, but that does not give any one the right to discriminate based on that person's caste, race, religion, gender and color.

 

[RabidMongoose]

..

 

[RabidMongoose]

I have to agree with CoW here. I don't think that a caste system is an obstacle to modernization because of the case systems of many European (and Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc.) countries preserving and at times worshiping their monarchy caste system.

Anyways, interesting to see the ultimate white supremacist (InfoHawk, aka Dictionary for when he tried to redefine the term genocide to mean that no white Europeans could ever commit it) vs. this Baasha person who is the ultimate Indian nationalist.

 

[Red Dawn]

Indians were inventing the numeral and decimal systems along with a plethora of other things. So STFU.

The most important of all, Karma Sutra

 

[bigdog1218]

never said India created "everything" in the world.. just some of the most important things in math, science, philosophy, and literature.. end of story..

Wow, they did something 1000 years ago, congrats. You realize India has less Noble prize winners than Canada right? A country of only ~30 million people. Why is that? It's either Indians are just not smart, or their backwards society doesn't give people the chance to succeed.

I've noticed the people I've worked with from India that fit into the category of
a) not liking India's situation,
b) liking the US,
c) don't go on and on about how great India was 1000 years ago
d) aren't racist by looking down on every other non-Indian.

tend to be absurdly smarter and harder working than their counter parts who just sit around bitching and moaning about how horrible the US is and how great India is.

 

[shangshang]

Indian programmers and telephone support systems seem to be stealing American jobs. I'd say India is modernizing better relative to the US. Hey if you steal American jobs, you gotta be doing something better/cheaper than Americans right? Come think of it, except for the corrupted aerospace/military industry (where defense spending using taxpayers money), everything seems to flow to China, India, and Mexico.

How about we worry about the American Political Caste system here first? I'd say any system that puts a dumbass W in charge of a powerful nation needs to be revised and nuked.

 

[Baasha]

I have to agree with CoW here. I don't think that a caste system is an obstacle to modernization because of the case systems of many European (and Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc.) countries preserving and at times worshiping their monarchy caste system.

Anyways, interesting to see the ultimate white supremacist (InfoHawk, aka Dictionary for when he tried to redefine the term genocide to mean that no white Europeans could ever commit it) vs. this Baasha person who is the ultimate Indian nationalist.

Well, thank you but I don't deserve the honor of being called an Indian nationalist. I feel like one at heart but my actions don't prove to be so. That honor is for greats like Sardar Patel, Veer Savarkar, Rajaji, and many many others.

And, if you were to compare the civilization of Europeans and Indians, look at the following:

1.) Europe(ans) invaded almost the entire world and engaged in genocide after genocide - 90 million native Americans being one of the most tragic
2.) Indians were invaded and 80 million Hindus were killed over a 1000 year period by muslim and christian invaders
3.) European settlers enslaved millions of blacks over several centuries.
4.) Indians (Hindus) never enslaved anyone; in fact, many of them were enslaved by the muslim and christian invaders.

The analogy is rendered moot because Infohawk's assumptions are based on fluff and purple-farts. Indian history speaks for itself.

Europe began to "shine" only after the 1500s when India and other Asian nations were reeling from several setbacks caused by foreign invaders, exploiters, and genocidal maniacs.

 

[Baasha]

The most important of all, Karma Sutra

LOL.. it's Kama Sutra btw.. but lol again..

 

[Baasha]

Wow, they did something 1000 years ago, congrats. You realize India has less Noble prize winners than Canada right? A country of only ~30 million people. Why is that? It's either Indians are just not smart, or their backwards society doesn't give people the chance to succeed.

Do you realize how idiotic your statements are? I wager not.

Indians inventions, whether they happened 1000 or 10,000 years ago, are some of the most seminal discoveries of mankind. They are still in use today so they are extremely relevant. These discoveries were made during the Golden Age(s) of India, which happen(s) to be prior to the barbaric invasions of the Arab Muslims in the 8th century CE.

And, Nobel Prizes don't mean a thing because they are highly biased and western-centric. That's like me saying, Americans haven't won even a single Padma Shri (a very high civilian award in India). A measure of one's success is not based on a "Nobel" prize or any prize for that matter. In fact, despite such biases, some Indians have won it which is to be admired. Remember, the Nobel committee gave that conniving bastard Henry Kiss(ass)inger a Nobel peace prize while they didn't honor one of the greatest men to have walked this earth and stood for nothing but peace, Mahatma Gandhi. That says a lot about the "Nobel" prize.

And, Indians have played a very important role in modern inventions as well. The father of fiber optics is Indian: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narinder_Singh_Kapany

The father of the Pentium Chip is Vinod Dham:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinod_Dham

For a list of many great inventions/discoveries by Indians, look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_inventions_and_discoveries

I've noticed the people I've worked with from India that fit into the category of
a) not liking India's situation,
b) liking the US,
c) don't go on and on about how great India was 1000 years ago
d) aren't racist by looking down on every other non-Indian.

tend to be absurdly smarter and harder working than their counter parts who just sit around bitching and moaning about how horrible the US is and how great India is.

Where in my statements did you get that I "like India's (current) situation"? In fact, I tend to admonish Indian administration and those who judge all of India based on it. Coming to conclusions based on some absurd extrapolation like you have is just silly. And, if I state the truth about the barbarity of the invasions and genocide committed by European 'settlers' (a euphemism for invaders), it doesn't mean I dislike the US. I live in the US and like certain aspects of it. However, that does NOT mean in anyway that whatever the US does is right or the bloody history of this nation can be swept under the carpet.

Think of it like a parent; a good parent admires his child for doing good things and admonishes the child for any and all transgressions. If the parent looks the other way when the child commits mistakes, that parent ceases to be "good" by any measure. 'Good' citizens are the same way; mightily proud of what their country does well while being cognizant and appropriately humble at the things the nation does poorly and/or badly. A definition of a patriot is exactly that; not one who blindly supports the nation for doing whatever it wants. For that, there is another word; sycophant.

 

[busydude]

You realize India has less Noble prize winners than Canada right? A country of only ~30 million people. Why is that? It's either Indians are just not smart, or their backwards society doesn't give people the chance to succeed.

HAHA.. so you gauge a nation's intelligence by the number of Nobel prize winners? LOL.. that is just plain absurd.

Just how many immigrants won the Nobel prize for the US?

 

[Infohawk]

Wow, Baasha is definitely a nationalist. Completely emotional. What's sad is I don't think India is a bad place at all. I think they will continue to modernise and will eventually unshackle themselves from the caste system. Every country has its zealot nationalists who are a danger to world peace and mutual understanding. Baasha is one of those.

Why on earth would that rapist murderer christopher columbus look for India then? The idiot lost his way (thankfully) and ended up starting one of the biggest genocides in the history of the world (native Americans).

Because of the natural resources there? It's like saying Saudi Arabia is the richest country now. Sure everyone wants their oil but the people aren't exactly modern.

 

[Steeplerot]

These discoveries were made during the Golden Age(s) of India, which happen(s) to be prior to the barbaric invasions of the Arab Muslims in the 8th century CE.

Sounds to me like bunch of excuses for not having done shit for the world but provide bad tech support service in the past 1000 years.

Did your Department of Enlightenment put itself on hold 1000 years ago? It would be typical.

Your beliefs sound like they have not grown or adapted since Buddah ditched his wife to sit around and stare at his navel.

By the way, we had people like you in America who thought certain types were born lesser and were slaves. We went to war against them, and they lost miserably. As I said, this old barbarian thinking has no place in the USA, don't bring your crappy barbarian beliefs here and think for a minute free people will not call you out.

Since you are a American now or something welcome, but please practice mental hygiene, your buddies are nowhere the jerks you make yourself look like.

I am out of this thread, I like Indian people, and this Baasha is making me angry at them. I will not buy into it as it seems most of you are obviously haters who want westerners to not like them.

Good luck to you.

 

[Infohawk]

I'm done with this thread as it is too provocative, into a discussion about the philosophy behind caste.

LOL! You are the most provocative in here. At least CanOWorms doesn't constantly sing praises of Indian culture like you do. You are just angry that someone dared to criticize the caste system in India or India in general. Never mind that I and many other posters criticize the US in the vast majority of threads. But no, if one thread suggests India is not a utopia you freak out and start attacking western culture (to which I can safely assume you owe a lot based on your location).

 

[OutHouse]

LOL! You are the most provocative in here. At least CanOWorms doesn't constantly sing praises of Indian culture like you do. You are just angry that someone dared to criticize the caste system in India or India in general. Never mind that I and many other posters criticize the US in the vast majority of threads. But no, if one thread suggests India is not a utopia you freak out and start attacking western culture (to which I can safely assume you owe a lot based on your location).

this

 

[CanOWorms]

LOL! You are the most provocative in here. At least CanOWorms doesn't constantly sing praises of Indian culture like you do. You are just angry that someone dared to criticize the caste system in India or India in general. Never mind that I and many other posters criticize the US in the vast majority of threads. But no, if one thread suggests India is not a utopia you freak out and start attacking western culture (to which I can safely assume you owe a lot based on your location).

LOL

He's EXACTLY like you except he's talking all about India instead of you talking all about Europe/West.