Indiana Homeowners Association insists flag pole with Old Glory come down

[dmcowen674]

10-28-2014

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/10/2...vow-not-to-take-down-flag-in-homeowners-flap/

Flag flap: Indiana veteran, wife battle homeowners association over Old Glory

Bob and Judy Willits insist they intend to fight multiple letters from the Fieldstone Homeowners Association regarding the American and POW/MIA flags outside their Greenfield home. The couple was first told in early September that the freestanding patriotic display wasn’t welcome since it wasn’t mounted to the home.

Kaye Eckert, president of the homeowners board, confirmed that the flagpole is the crux of the problem.

“We do not tell anyone they cannot fly a flag,” she told FOX 59 last week. “What we are having a problem with is the flagpole. Flagpoles are not allowed in this association.

Update 10-29-2014 The HOA has dropped the lawsuit.

Shame on those in here that supported the HOA ant-American thugs.

 

[dmcowen674]

Why do Homeowners Association people in position always seem to be anti-American?

 

[Smoblikat]

Why do Homeowners Association people in position always seem to be anti-American?

Please tell me how it is anti-American? The flag is perfectly acceptable, its the location of the pole that isnt.

Why do people become part of a HOA if they dont want to deal with the BS rules they make up?

 

[Brovane]

If you live in HOA you also agree to abide by the rules of the HOA. They should have checked the HOA by-laws to verify if a flagpole was ok before putting it up.

 

[werepossum]

If you live in HOA you also agree to abide by the rules of the HOA. They should have checked the HOA by-laws to verify if a flagpole was ok before putting it up.

Or perhaps the HOA should have checked the law before they assumed power.

Kudos to Hancock County Prosecuting Attorney Michael Griffin.

 

[The Merg]

Please tell me how it is anti-American? The flag is perfectly acceptable, its the location of the pole that isnt.

Why do people become part of a HOA if they dont want to deal with the BS rules they make up?

Yup. When you move in you agree to the HOA rules. If you don't like them, don't move there.

Or work within the HOA to change the rules...

- Merg

 

[OutHouse]

I agree with the HOA. They aren't bitching about flying the flag like other HOA's have done in the past, but the 20 foot pole the homeowners put up.

Why can't the obey the rules they agreed to when they signed their mortgage and fly old glory from a house mounted pole?

 

[lopri]

I wonder if the policy is put in place in order to reduce confusions? Some people might think their house is a public office.

 

[ElFenix]

I wonder if the policy is put in place in order to reduce confusions? Some people might think their house is a public office.

it's because most people put up a flagpole, don't maintain it, and it looks like crap after a short while.

 

[Bitek]

What I don't get are people who are adamant about personal freedom and small govt that choose to live in an hoa.
They can be the most absurd and dictatorial micro-managers. Lived in one once, never again

HOAs often write rules that are not actually legal. Roof mounted antennas are one typical case. However I doubt flagpoles fall in this category.

GL with the lawsuit.....

 

[Exterous]

What I don't get are people who are adamant about personal freedom and small govt that choose to live in an hoa.

It could entirely be because not all HOAs are nazi like fascist organizations. In fact given the large prevalence of HOAs in some areas and the comparatively small number of news stories I might even go out on a limb and say most are not like that

 

[Londo_Jowo]

All HOA's have strict rules that are spelled out and provided prior to entering the purchasing contract, then signed as part of the closing paperwork. Most owners chose to follow the rules set forth by the HOA/in their restricted deed.

I do not see these homeowners winning any lawsuits against the HOA as they are legally bound by their HOA contract they signed at closing.

 

[PokerGuy]

Stupid homeowner. You signed on to the restrictions. The HOA is not telling him he can't fly the flag, it's telling him you can't have a flagpole in your front yard, something he agreed to when he signed the contract to buy the house. Don't like that restriction? Don't agree to abide by it and buy that house. Buy another one.

The fact that he's flying an American flag makes no difference -- the rules are not singling out the flag -- it's how/where it's flying. If the guy wants to paint his house red, white and blue, should he be allowed to ignore HOA regulations on that as well just because he's being patriotic??

Stupid homeowner, hopefully they get their butt handed to them in court.

 

[Newell Steamer]

You seem to have more freedom by renting, than if you own (or spent a shit load of money) whatever you get from these types of communities. Worst thing that can happen in renting, is that you lose your security deposit.

 

[PokerGuy]

You seem to have more freedom by renting, than if you own (or spent a shit load of money) whatever you get from these types of communities. Worst thing that can happen in renting, is that you lose your security deposit.

When you buy a home in a place governed by a HOA, you are expressly giving up some "freedoms" in what you can do on the outside of your house/yard etc. That's the entire point of the HOA, people want to make sure their property values aren't negatively affected by someone else doing something stupid with their house, not taking care of it etc etc. If you don't want such restrictions, you can always buy a house where you are not included in a HOA, and you can also buy a house in a place where the HOA restrictions are not that onerous. It's completely up to you as the consumer, but idiots want to buy a house in a place that has restrictions and then whine about said restrictions.

 

[Newell Steamer]

It's completely up to you as the consumer, but idiots want to buy a house in a place that has restrictions and then whine about said restrictions.

No complaints about HOAs frankly - they are what they are.

The jerk is indeed the person who wants to build some monstrosity, when he/she was clearly told they can't.

I am not sure where and how these people feel they are 'right', when there are plenty of options and HOAs are very clear in what they stand for.

 

[WHAMPOM]

What's that song, "houses made of ticky-tack, all looking the same?"

 

[werepossum]

No complaints about HOAs frankly - they are what they are.

The jerk is indeed the person who wants to build some monstrosity, when he/she was clearly told they can't.

I am not sure where and how these people feel they are 'right', when there are plenty of options and HOAs are very clear in what they stand for.

A flag pole with the American flag is "some monstrosity"?

 

[PokerGuy]

A flag pole with the American flag is "some monstrosity"?

To some people, yes. And those people decided to buy houses in a neighborhood where like minded people lived, and they made HOA rules banning such a "monstrosity". Seems silly to me, but that's what they signed up for by moving there.

 

[werepossum]

To some people, yes. And those people decided to buy houses in a neighborhood where like minded people lived, and they made HOA rules banning such a "monstrosity". Seems silly to me, but that's what they signed up for by moving there.

Only in this case, the HOA is in violation of the law.

 

[TheSlamma]

20th person to concur HOA's are for morons. Don't live in em. Go measure the height of your fescue Don't park in your own drive only your garage but since most of them are filled with Walmart junk you can park on the street making your cul-de-sac even more tight and useless.

Live in a city with rules that prevent cars parking on lawns and permits for major home projects but screw HOA's that a bunch of not picking BS

 

[PokerGuy]

Only in this case, the HOA is in violation of the law.

No, that's just one guy's interpretation, until/unless a judge says so, they are not. We'll have to see how it turns out, but if you go with Michael Griffin's interpretation it would mean the HOA basically can not have *any* rules that have to do with the American flag, you could have a 50 foot flag covering your entire house and there could be no rule against it because there's no "special interest" beyond "regular" HOA concerns. It defies common sense, but then again common sense is not common

 

[Fern]

No, that's just one guy's interpretation, until/unless a judge says so, they are not. We'll have to see how it turns out, but if you go with Michael Griffin's interpretation it would mean the HOA basically can not have *any* rules that have to do with the American flag, you could have a 50 foot flag covering your entire house and there could be no rule against it because there's no "special interest" beyond "regular" HOA concerns. It defies common sense, but then again common sense is not common

Given the name of the state law- Freedom to Display the American Flag Act of 2005- that would seem to be the intent. (My apologies for being too lazy to hunt up some obscure state law and research it, but I just thought the title of the law was interesting.)

Fern

 

[Belegost]

Given the name of the state law- Freedom to Display the American Flag Act of 2005- that would seem to be the intent. (My apologies for being too lazy to hunt up some obscure state law and research it, but I just thought the title of the law was interesting.)

Fern

So looking at that.

The only relevant limitation is:

any reasonable restriction pertaining to the time,
place, or manner of displaying the flag of the United States
necessary to protect a substantial interest of the condominium
association, cooperative association, or residential real estate
management association.

So it seems that the HOA needs to prove that huge flagpole represents a threat to a substantial interest of the HOA. I'm not sure that's easily done.

 

[werepossum]

The prosecuting attorney believes the HOA cannot, else the law would specifically empower them. (Which would be amusingly ironic as HOAs are exactly the group at which this law is aimed.)