Indiana Dems walk out -Again

[CADsortaGUY]

Well in that case I would take the unilateral right away from the union, but not bar it from occurring entirely which is what this law is aiming to do. Nothing should stop an employer from deciding to only hire from the union, or requiring all employees from paying union dues as part of the contract with the union.

If I was a union worker I would be mighty pissed about legislation barring me from working at a closed shop. That is taking choice away from me.

All this law is doing is adding crap on top of crap. It doesn't make things right, it just makes them different wrong.

What? You still don't understand the legislation or unions if you think this removes a choice. There is ZERO benifit for anyone except the union for a closed shop to exist because it forces people to fall in line under their command and pay dues. Allowing employees the choice of not having to pay dues to something they don't want to be in is much more important than your fake "choice" of a closed shop. sheesh. what a joke.

Again, the EMPLOYER is not the one making the requirement to be in a union, pay dues, or not. Try to keep up...

 

[actuarial]

What? You still don't understand the legislation or unions if you think this removes a choice. There is ZERO benifit for anyone except the union for a closed shop to exist because it forces people to fall in line under their command and pay dues. Allowing employees the choice of not having to pay dues to something they don't want to be in is much more important than your fake "choice" of a closed shop. sheesh. what a joke.

Again, the EMPLOYER is not the one making the requirement to be in a union, pay dues, or not. Try to keep up...

I got what you are saying with the bolded, and I just suggested THAT should change. I believe an employer should be able to negotiate whatever they want with the union, including firing them all if they can't come to an agreement (not because they are union members, but because they don't show up to work etc.).

That would give true reform, and allow unions who have real negotiating power to have power, instead of random infighting where power is granted and taken away from all unions regardless if they have a legitimate bargaining position.

A group of people should be able to come together and make an agreement with an employer that the employer will only hire from their group (this does happen with temp agencies all the time). Also, an employer should not be forced into an agreement like that. Right now the latter isn't the case. You don't fix that by not allowing the former.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

I got what you are saying with the bolded, and I just suggested THAT should change. I believe an employer should be able to negotiate whatever they want with the union, including firing them all if they can't come to an agreement (not because they are union members, but because they don't show up to work etc.).

That would give true reform, and allow unions who have real negotiating power to have power, instead of random infighting where power is granted and taken away from all unions regardless if they have a legitimate bargaining position.

A group of people should be able to come together and make an agreement with an employer that the employer will only hire from their group (this does happen with temp agencies all the time). Also, an employer should not be forced into an agreement like that. Right now the latter isn't the case. You don't fix that by not allowing the former.

So what if people already employed don't want to join that group that wants to make an agreement with an employer? They should be forced to join the group or leave? They have an employment agreement with the employer already - their choice doesn't matter?

 

[Hacp]

Just get rid of collective bargaining. We'll add 50 million jobs just by getting rid of that one thing.

 

[fskimospy]

Just get rid of collective bargaining. We'll add 50 million jobs just by getting rid of that one thing.

lol. no we won't.

 

[Ausm]

First Wisconsin, then Ohio and now Indiana looks like the GOP is on a tear implementing the ALEC Agenda.

I think the GOP is going to find out that it isn't a good thing to piss off labor. Many of the Public workers and teachers (not to mention in my own family) in my State the GOP fucked over are now ex-Republicans.

 

[EagleKeeper]

First Wisconsin, then Ohio and now Indiana looks like the GOP is on a tear implementing the ALEC Agenda.

I think the GOP is going to find out that it isn't a good thing to piss off labor. Many of the Public workers and teachers (not to mention in my own family) in my State the GOP fucked over are now ex-Republicans.

When the public realizes that the union is trying to ripped the employer (public/private) off by protecting incompetent workers causing higher costs for everything; they will respond.
They see it in the automotive industry; they are now seeing it in the public sector padding and protection. When taxes were not being a problem; no one cared; now the spigot is drying up; everything needs to be examined and adjusted if possible.

It may be a shame the public jobs are lost; but they can convert those skills to the private sector is deserving. Public deserves the best quality for their money; they have not been getting it at this point.

 

[Ausm]

When the public realizes that the union is trying to ripped the employer (public/private) off by protecting incompetent workers causing higher costs for everything; they will respond.
They see it in the automotive industry; they are now seeing it in the public sector padding and protection. When taxes were not being a problem; no one cared; now the spigot is drying up; everything needs to be examined and adjusted if possible.

It may be a shame the public jobs are lost; but they can convert those skills to the private sector is deserving. Public deserves the best quality for their money; they have not been getting it at this point.

Please post proof of your assertions...I like how you broad brush every Union as being bad...LMAO.

Oh it looks like the people of Ohio think you are full of shit and rejected this assault on labor. The same thing is going to happen in my state as well.

Here checkout this link so you can educate yourself on ALEC's Agenda.

http://alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed

 

[EagleKeeper]

Example in private sector

Why are workers sitting around drawing full pay in Detroit at the union job banks?

Paying for people to not work. This is not coming out of union funds; but company funds.

Great use of resources.

Example in public sector:
Union fighting for toll workers jobs

Autopay tolls are much more effective than having people in tolls booths;

So public is getting shafted twice
Paying for unneeded workers
Paying in terms of time for longer transit times through the tolls.

 

[michal1980]

so are democrats now going to be labeled the party of 'no'?

or does that only happen when repulicans dont vote on bills?

 

[Ausm]

Example in private sector

Why are workers sitting around drawing full pay in Detroit at the union job banks?

Paying for people to not work. This is not coming out of union funds; but company funds.

Great use of resources.

Example in public sector:
Union fighting for toll workers jobs

Autopay tolls are much more effective than having people in tolls booths;

So public is getting shafted twice
Paying for unneeded workers
Paying in terms of time for longer transit times through the tolls.

Links? Post proof....

 

[Ausm]

so are democrats now going to be labeled the party of 'no'?

or does that only happen when repulicans dont vote on bills?

LMAO only in your wet dreams...

 

[cybrsage]

So what if people already employed don't want to join that group that wants to make an agreement with an employer? They should be forced to join the group or leave? They have an employment agreement with the employer already - their choice doesn't matter?

That is what happens in Pennsylvania. If your shop goes union and you do not want to join you must be fired.

Personally, I would be pro union if they simply policed their own people. If they got rid of the crappy people, ensuring unions were where you would always find the best people, then I could be for them. As it is, they PROTECT those who should be fired.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Links? Post proof....

Job banks in Detroit.

Toll Worker in NJ.

Unions are not angels - they look after themselves first; then the workers.
the employer exists to get screwed.

 

[michal1980]

LMAO only in your wet dreams...

you'd be the first to call the republicans that if they ran off the job.

 

[Lemon law]

Let me explain something about Indiana. That believes Indiana legislators should be only part timers. And part of that is alternating legislative sessions. In one years there is a long session in which most of the legislative work is done, and then the next year is a far shorter legislative session in which only the most pressing issues legislative agenda can be passed by bi-partisan consensus.

In 2011, in a long session year, the democrats walked out rather than see the GOP impose a right to work union busting bill jammed down their throats, and only came back
when the GOP backed down.

2012 is a Indiana short session year, so the democrats don't have to hold out as long, before the Republirats come to their senses and act in a bi-partisan manner.

But there are a hell of a lot more Indiana workers who are seeing their economic futures decline to bet on the GOP to win the overall blame game.

Sadly Indiana can't do what Wisconsin is doing to their equally nutty Governor, but its very possible Scott Walker will get the boot for engaging in the same class warfare.

So in Indiana, the blame game will be decided in some future election.

Or we could go back to the 1920's, when the GOP kept winning and winning the same blame game, until they finally collapsed with President Hoover. As the structural GOP problems Hoover inherited as President was not his fault, but after taking 10 years of GOP poison pills, all the GOP Poison finally took effect and Hoover was powerless to reverse it.

 

[tweaker2]

Just get rid of collective bargaining. We'll add 50 million jobs just by getting rid of that one thing.

Hey, I think you're on to something here. Without union representation, many companies will fire their now at-will middle class wage earners by the millions and replace them with 50 million illegal aliens who will work for pennies a day and use Hospital ER's for their outpatient medical needs as these now-liberated companies won't be compelled to provide health care, vacation and sick leave benefits any more.

That will evaporate the middle class and force them into the same class as the illegal aliens and the whole nation will benefit from it.

Yay.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Sadly Indiana can't do what Wisconsin is doing to their equally nutty Governor, but its very possible Scott Walker will get the boot for engaging in the same class warfare.

Let me explain something about LL and his take on Indiana politics -- you'd all be wise to seek other opinions.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

so are democrats now going to be labeled the party of 'no'?

or does that only happen when repulicans dont vote on bills?

I'm not aware of Republicans fleeing a state to avoid voting on a bill when they don't have the majority necessary to defeat it. It might have happened somewhere, but not in Indiana that I can recall in the recent past.

The Democrats, on the other hand, have done it twice in the past year. To the usual foaming-at-the-mouth lefties here, that isn't dereliction of duty (which it is); it is "standing up for their beliefs." The blatant hypocrisy is stunning and is yet another symptom of what's wrong with this country -- people only want "their" team to win regardless of the consequences. Too bad the governor didn't have them all arrested and brought back to session the last time this happened, or maybe they would've thought twice. IIRC, they're all getting hit with huge fines now.

Oh well, I'll remember that the next time Republicans block something when they're the minority. I should probably quote a few of the usual suspects in this thread so I can reuse it later when the Republicans inevitably filibuster something to death. As for the behavior of the Democrats in this legislature, they're just signing their own defeat in the next election because people are pissed -- even many Democrats I know.

 

[spidey07]

I'm getting the ads as we service southern indiana. The one for right to work are very well done showing how the state has lost out on jobs and the need to be competitive.

 

[Ausm]

Job banks in Detroit.

Toll Worker in NJ.

Unions are not angels - they look after themselves first; then the workers.
the employer exists to get screwed.

And Corporations and businesses don't?

LMAO ...all talk no proof except for Right Wing talking points.

 

[michal1980]

And Corporations and businesses don't?

LMAO ...all talk no proof except for Right Wing talking points.

what prood do you have of unions being angels?

Your mr union talking points 100% of the time.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Unions are supposed to represent their workers - they do not.

They at times have/would rather see all workers kicked out rather than change rules so a few are gone and the rest have a job

 

[spidey07]

Unions are supposed to represent their workers - they do not.

They at times have/would rather see all workers kicked out rather than change rules so a few are gone and the rest have a job

Just look at how many plants the unions shut down. That's all the proof needed.

 

[Hacp]

Just look at how many plants the unions shut down. That's all the proof needed.

Closing down every union, we would create or save 80 million jobs.