Indiana brown shirts

[CADsortaGUY]

http://www.courier-journal.com...80404/NEWS02/804040957

So let me get this straight. It's "evil" of Bush to have people make sure no buffoons get into his speeches(last election cycle) but it's OK to try to intimidate people who are actually going to vote?

 

[dphantom]

It's an open primary. Let people vote how they want. Dems have played that game too. In the long run, it really won't hurt or help any particular candidate.

 

[ayabe]

You mean like "caging"?

If I'm not mistaken, it was the R's who've been accused of these dirty tactics in the last few elections and now they are trying to meddle in the Democrat primary on the encouragement of people like Rush.

But you're right the D's should just let it happen. :shocked:

 

[Fern]

I hate this kind of crap and think Limbaugh should STFU. Let each side take care of their own primary with no meddling. I think Limbaugh is just doing this to bring attention to himself at the expense of honest and above-board elections.

The Repubs in Indiana need the Repub voters to vote Repub. There are too many other elections aside form the Pres nomination process.

I find it odd that Hillary supporters are the ones complaining about this, Limbaugh is telling Repubs to vote for her. You'd think it would be the Obama people complaining the loudest?

Fern

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Fern
I hate this kind of crap and think Limbaugh should STFU. Let each side take care of their own primary with no meddling. I think Limbaugh is just doing this to bring attention to himself at the expense of honest and above-board elections.

The Repubs in Indiana need the Repub voters to vote Repub. There are too many other elections aside form the Pres nomination process.

I find it odd that Hillary supporters are the ones complaining about this, Limbaugh is telling Repubs to vote for her. You'd think it would be the Obama people complaining the loudest?

Fern

I agree that each side take care of their own, however we didn't get McCain by only have our side vote for him. There has been way too much meddling done by the left and I happen to think this is hilarious from a political standpoint.

But as to their brownshirting - it'll be interesting to see who gets caught up in the doublespeak due to their position on what Bush did in '04. I personally don't care if they have people there asking people...but we'll see who get snared in the brownshirt banter.

 

[Starbuck1975]

"If there are Republicans sincere in their intent to support our candidates, then we welcome them into our party. If their motives are only to play mischief, we're not going to sit back and let this happen," Parker said.

And how exactly do they intend to measure the intent of cross-over voters?

The Democrats created this mess...I don't blame the Republicans for attempting to meddle in the Democrat primary...Hillary needs to win Indiana and Pennsylvania to justify her continuing to the convention floor...and Republicans know that if this thing makes it to the Convention floor, it will get quite ugly, not to mention prolonged through the summer...history is not on the side of candidates emerging from a contested convention.

The Republicans are quite simply forcing the Democrat superdelegates hand, which will disenfranchise a good percentage of the Democrat vote who will be quite angry that back room politics knocked their candidate out of the race.

Hillary should see the writing on the wall, but she won't...she will quite enthusiastically take the support of voters who despise her so that she can justify the continuation of this fiasco.

Probably seen as a mitigation strategy against the evangelical attrition that McCain will suffer.

 

[senseamp]

That is why superdelegates need to decide these primaries. Too many shens.

 

[Lemon law]

Believe me, Indiana is a hot bed of political apathy. There are always some crossover monkey business, but right now the republirats are none too popular for raising the State sales tax another 1%. Bush's man Mitch is running a lot of commercials to help shore up his support. The last thing the GOP needs is to be caught in the act of a sabotage the dems campaign.

 

[Starbuck1975]

The last thing the GOP needs is to be caught in the act of a sabotage the dems campaign.

Very difficult to prove.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: senseamp
That is why superdelegates need to decide these primaries. Too many shens.

What about the shens where the candidates are flipping money to the SD's for their vote?

Fern

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

The last thing the GOP needs is to be caught in the act of a sabotage the dems campaign.

Very difficult to prove.

Huh? Rush is on the air openly admitting it. As far as I am concerned, he is a shill for the GOP.
Well, if their goal is to alienate independents like me who would vote for McCain if Obama is the nominee, they are working hard at it.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Huh? Rush is on the air openly admitting it. As far as I am concerned, he is a shill for the GOP.

The far right talking heads may be advocating such behavior, but how will you measure whether or not their message motivated Republicans to vote...again, how do you measure intent?

 

[Lemon law]

Starbucks1975 seems to be struggling with the concept with--- The last thing the GOP needs is to be caught in the act of a sabotage the dems campaign.

Very difficult to prove.

Its an image thing and the image is all the proof needed. When the GOP screws the people with a 1% sales tax increase and then goes to their voting base and says lets be devious and screw up the dems. Most republicans are not devious and asking them to be devious runs against their grain. And then they make this little mental connection, my republican leadership is devious and they sure screwed me too. And then conclude, I don't want to be devious so I will vote for some honest folks next time. An emotion is as valid as a fact.

I know quite a few people who are tax preparers. And get regaled with countless tales of what happens when the people get to that little checkbox, "do you want to donate a dollar to fund the political campaigns?" Normally well behaved people start getting purple in the face and start using language that would make a sailor blush. Lots of angry people out there and most of them are self proclaimed nominal GOP types. It may not rise up high enough to be your required proof
and may not swing Indiana democratic in the national elections, but look for a lower margin of victory. Indiana has not gone democratic since 1964.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: dphantom
It's an open primary. Let people vote how they want. Dems have played that game too. In the long run, it really won't hurt or help any particular candidate.

That's pretty much it.

The people have nothing to do with an election these days other than foot the ever growing massive bill.

 

[Wogdog]

Actually, I scratch my head and think, why would anyone who makes less the 500k per year vote for a Republican. They don't care about you, only your vote every few years. I know the alternative is not the greatest, BUT WHY? Honestly, can you say right now that you are better off than you were 8 years ago, I know of 4000+ americans and numerous Iraqi civilians who aren't. Is everyone paying less for gas and still have a good paying jobs? The Republicans have always have been for lining the pockets of the wealthy and big businesses at your expense. So why after 8 years of the worst President ever would any sane individual even think about putting another one in office. Just my rant, and flame all you want, but at this point I DONT CARE. My opinion is still protected by the constitution, barely. DAMN RIGHT ITS CLASS WARFARE, and the middle class is losing.

 

[chowderhead]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

"If there are Republicans sincere in their intent to support our candidates, then we welcome them into our party. If their motives are only to play mischief, we're not going to sit back and let this happen," Parker said.

And how exactly do they intend to measure the intent of cross-over voters?

The Democrats created this mess...I don't blame the Republicans for attempting to meddle in the Democrat primary...Hillary needs to win Indiana and Pennsylvania to justify her continuing to the convention floor...and Republicans know that if this thing makes it to the Convention floor, it will get quite ugly, not to mention prolonged through the summer...history is not on the side of candidates emerging from a contested convention.

The Republicans are quite simply forcing the Democrat superdelegates hand, which will disenfranchise a good percentage of the Democrat vote who will be quite angry that back room politics knocked their candidate out of the race.

Hillary should see the writing on the wall, but she won't...she will quite enthusiastically take the support of voters who despise her so that she can justify the continuation of this fiasco.

Probably seen as a mitigation strategy against the evangelical attrition that McCain will suffer.

According the exit polling, Clinton has consistently won the majority of self-identified Democrats. Obama is getting his national vote lead from his large advantage among self-identified independents and Republicans.

Liberal groups like Dailykos were advocating/encouraging Democrats in Michigan to vote for Romney to keep him in the race. I am not sure why Republicans are allowed to help select the Democratic nominee but the state parties can and should change those rules for next time.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Liberal groups like Dailykos were advocating/encouraging Democrats in Michigan to vote for Romney to keep him in the race. I am not sure why Republicans are allowed to help select the Democratic nominee but the state parties can and should change those rules for next time.

You would think after the 2000 Bush/Gore Florida fiasco, each of the parties would take a hard look at their nomination and electoral procedures in ALL states.

Unfortunately, it seems that both parties like having exploitable loopholes in the system...works great when they play in your favor, but cause nothing but skepticism in the integrity of our political system when problems arise.

 

[Socio]

Dan Parker said yesterday that he's concerned that some Republicans might use the crossover interest in the presidential race between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton as an opportunity to target other Democrats on the May 6 ballot.

"If there are Republicans sincere in their intent to support our candidates, then we welcome them into our party. If their motives are only to play mischief, we're not going to sit back and let this happen," Parker said.

That ticks me off!

Since when can anyone tell you how to vote or challenge your vote selection? I thought ballots were secret, just how are they going to find out who your voting for or if you are a Rep ,Dem, or Ind, to even question you?

If someone were to stop me at the poll, demand to know my political affiliation, who I was voting for and why, they would get a hand gesture using my middle finger as a reply I can tell you that.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Socio

Dan Parker said yesterday that he's concerned that some Republicans might use the crossover interest in the presidential race between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton as an opportunity to target other Democrats on the May 6 ballot.

"If there are Republicans sincere in their intent to support our candidates, then we welcome them into our party. If their motives are only to play mischief, we're not going to sit back and let this happen," Parker said.

That ticks me off!

Since when can anyone tell you how to vote or challenge your vote selection? I thought ballots were secret, just how are they going to find out who your voting for or if you are a Rep ,Dem, or Ind, to even question you?

If someone were to stop me at the poll, demand to know my political affiliation, who I was voting for and why, they would get a hand gesture using my middle finger as a reply I can tell you that.

Relax.

It's not an ELECTION. It's a (private) party's nomination process.

As we can see, they can make up any rules they want. Even rules that say no one's vote counts (over-ruled by Super D's).

(The Dems have a long habit of this. From what I can tell, the party's 1968 nominee never even ran in the primary - didn't campaign, he just showed up at the convention and they made him the nominee.)

Fern

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Fern
Relax.

It's not an ELECTION. It's a (private) party's nomination process.

As we can see, they can make up any rules they want. Even rules that say no one's vote counts (over-ruled by Super D's).

(The Dems have a long habit of this. From what I can tell, the party's 1968 nominee never even ran in the primary - didn't campaign, he just showed up at the convention and they made him the nominee.)

Fern

and are the Republicans any different?

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Fern
Relax.

It's not an ELECTION. It's a (private) party's nomination process.

As we can see, they can make up any rules they want. Even rules that say no one's vote counts (over-ruled by Super D's).

(The Dems have a long habit of this. From what I can tell, the party's 1968 nominee never even ran in the primary - didn't campaign, he just showed up at the convention and they made him the nominee.)

Fern

and are the Republicans any different?

I can't recall any time where they ignored the primary vote and just chose someone else, like the Dem's '68 convention (and the Hillary campaign's current suggestion).

Do you know of any instances where the Repub's did that?

Fern

 

[Lemon law]

Fern asks---Do you know of any instances where the Repub's did that?

Sure Fern, try 1940. Try 1912. I sure a little research can come up with more.

Two very strong democratic candidates with similar positions almost neck in neck, only some 140 out of 4049 votes difference in the lead, and a good deal yet to go, sure its hotly contested, but there have been no big power plays yet. Fern, the case that this is not going to follow the peoples will is not even close to being made.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Fern asks---Do you know of any instances where the Repub's did that?

Sure Fern, try 1940. Try 1912. I sure a little research can come up with more.

Too old to be relevant, IMO

Two very strong democratic candidates with similar positions almost neck in neck, only some 140 out of 4049 votes difference in the lead, and a good deal yet to go, sure its hotly contested, but there have been no big power plays yet. Fern, the case that this is not going to follow the peoples will is not even close to being made.

I think it is, at least they're trying. I'm not saying it will be successful. Hillary and her supporters have been making the case for some time now that certain states don't really count. Only her "swing states" are important. See the thread on her comments bout ND too. Then there's the whole "caucuses don't count" thing.

Then there's the "super delegates" aren't supposed to vote like the rest of the population etc.

I agree no (successful) power plays yet. But it isn't for a lack of trying. E.g., Ickes has been calling the SD's and trying to get them to go with Hillary citing Obama's "Wright" problem.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Fern asks---Do you know of any instances where the Repub's did that?

Sure Fern, try 1940. Try 1912. I sure a little research can come up with more.

Too old to be relevant, IMO

Like 1968 is relevent :roll:

 

[CallMeJoe]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Huh? Rush is on the air openly admitting it. As far as I am concerned, he is a shill for the GOP.
Well, if their goal is to alienate independents like me who would vote for McCain if Obama is the nominee, they are working hard at it.

Rush is just fluffing himself again. He sees record turnouts in Democratic primaries, sees numerous Republicans cross registering to vote in a meaningful primary (since the Republican candidate is already decided), and figures he can make himself seem still relevant by hyping his Operation Chaos (IIRC) and taking credit for the Democrats' high turnout. Post hoc, ergo proctor hoc. Rather like the rooster taking credit for the sunrise.