Indian High Court rules that the right to abort a pregnancy rests with wife

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Texashiker

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
I do not understand how yall can say "women deserve special rights",,,, blah, blah, blah.

If men should not have the right to force an unwanted medical procedure on a woman, the woman should not have that right either.

Why is not ok for a man to force a woman, but its ok for a woman to force the fetus.
 
Gunslinger08

Gunslinger08

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
13,234
2
81
The internal logic is consistent with their stance on abortion, if you think about it. The pro-choice debate basically says that a fetus isn't a "life" until a certain point in time (16 weeks, 3rd trimester, birth, whatever). Up until that point, the fetus is just a collection of cells that belongs to the woman, like fingernails or hair. Another person doesn't have a say over what you do with your fingernails or hair, so they shouldn't have a say over what you do with your "non-life" fetus.

Not saying I agree with that. I think the father should get some sort of say, but I don't know how to balance that with the rights of the woman. It's not exactly uncommon for a woman to use abortion as a means of retaliation. How would you feel if you got into an argument with your wife and she aborted your 3 month fetus to get back at you? It's happened to someone I know.

I don't know that I really agree with the "non-life" argument. Yes, a fetus can't survive on its own before the CNS develops. Some people compare this to euthanasia for people in a permanent vegetative state. Not really the same thing though. I doubt anybody would support taking someone off of life support if you knew for a fact that they would come out of it in 6 months and be a normal functioning person. I don't really see a difference between that and aborting a fetus.
 
Atomic Playboy

Atomic Playboy

Lifer
Feb 6, 2007
16,432
1
81
Texashiker said:
I do not understand how yall can say "women deserve special rights",,,, blah, blah, blah.

If men should not have the right to force an unwanted medical procedure on a woman, the woman should not have that right either.

Why is not ok for a man to force a woman, but its ok for a woman to force the fetus.
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You're turning this into a debate about the validity of abortion and the fetus' rights, which is a completely different topic from having to explain why people shouldn't be able to force other people to go through medical procedures. Focusing solely on why men shouldn't be able to force women to have abortions: Fine, let's let men have a say in whether the fetus is aborted. As long as women get to decide if their sexual partners are required to get vasectomies.
 
Texashiker

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
Atomic Playboy said:
You're turning this into a debate about the validity of abortion and the fetus' rights, which is a completely different topic from having to explain why people shouldn't be able to force other people to go through medical procedures.
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No, it is no a different topic.

It would not be right to force an unwanted medical procedure on women.

The fetus should not be forced to go through an unwanted medical procedure.

In most cases the woman had she chance to opt out, but she chose to have sex.
 
R

Riparian

Senior member
Jul 21, 2011
294
0
76
eskimospy said:
I actually totally agree that there is a disparity in responsibility for a pregnant woman vs the man who got her pregnant. It sucks for the man in many ways, but I can't think of any better solution than what we have now. If you allow the man to effectively ditch their babies at will you will have an epidemic of this in no time. If you allow the man to forcibly abort the fetus, you have a horrifying situation as already described.

There just isn't a good answer for this, but I feel that our system is about as decent as you're going to get.
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Why do you believe there would be an epidemic? Within the law, there are always ways to narrowly tailor the law so that it minimizes the amount of overreach. Why not have a system where a man who wishes to avoid having a child and is still within a viable abortion period can seek a legal remedy from the courts adjudging beforehand that he wishes to give up all of his parental rights? In this situation, although the woman will not be forced to abort, she will also have to consider the repercussions of going through with the birth against the will of the father.
 
F

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,503
50,662
136
Riparian said:
Why do you believe there would be an epidemic? Within the law, there are always ways to narrowly tailor the law so that it minimizes the amount of overreach. Why not have a system where a man who wishes to avoid having a child and is still within a viable abortion period can seek a legal remedy from the courts adjudging beforehand that he wishes to give up all of his parental rights? In this situation, although the woman will not be forced to abort, she will also have to consider the repercussions of going through with the birth against the will of the father.
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Large percentages of women in this country are morally or religiously opposed to abortion. Your idea would allow men that slept with them to basically screw them over for these moral or religious convictions. It's a non-starter.
 
Cerpin Taxt

Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
11,940
542
126
Texashiker said:
No they do not.

If a woman can terminate an unwanted pregnancy, so should the man.
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A woman can terminate her own pregnancy, and no one else's.

A man can terminate his own pregnancy, and no one else's.

Those are equal rights; and your arguments are, frankly, pathetic.
 
R

Riparian

Senior member
Jul 21, 2011
294
0
76
eskimospy said:
Large percentages of women in this country are morally or religiously opposed to abortion. Your idea would allow men that slept with them to basically screw them over for these moral or religious convictions. It's a non-starter.
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Alot of those same religious women probably have religious tenets against pre-marital sex. Your stance allows those women to pick and choose the most advantageous situation for themselves. Anyways, it's just a thought experiment as I doubt anything like that system would start up as you said. I just have doubts that it would be as rampantly abused as you believe.
 
F

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,503
50,662
136
Riparian said:
Alot of those same religious women probably have religious tenets against pre-marital sex. Your stance allows those women to pick and choose the most advantageous situation for themselves. Anyways, it's just a thought experiment as I doubt anything like that system would start up as you said. I just have doubts that it would be as rampantly abused as you believe.
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Yeap. Like I said earlier I fully acknowledge that this puts women in an advantageous position over men. To me however it is the best choice of a bad lot.
 
Texashiker

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
Atomic Playboy said:
What will? Are you honestly claiming that an embryo is capable of rational thought?
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Are you honestly claiming a fetus does not have rational thought?

A few years ago I saw an abortion video where the fetus was trying to move away from the tools inserted by the doctor.

If the fetus has enough sense to move away from something that is trying to harm it, what else does it feel? Do we know for a fact that the fetus feels nothing?
 
R

Raghu

Senior member
Aug 28, 2004
397
1
81
Case 1 : If the man wants the child but woman doesnt - she can still have the abortion.
Case 2 : If the woman wants the child but man doesnt - he still has to pay for its upbringing.
This doesnt seem fair since she gets to be in control in both events.

The man forcing the woman to abort doesnt seem like a solution for case 2. But the courts should allow the man to not pay for the child in such cases. Woman gets sole custody and responsibility of the kid.

As for case 1, man pays for child birth and gets custody of the child.
 
C

CLite

Golden Member
Dec 6, 2005
1,726
7
76
You guys are being obtuse trying to compare woman's abortion rights to the financial responsibility of parents.

A woman should have control over her own body when it comes to determining medical procedures. The Supreme Court kind of addressed this in a back way by using privacy as a basis iirc. We are not saying the woman can abort because of financial reasons, we are simply saying the US government has no position from which to dictate what medical procedures a woman will undergo.

Now moving on to the financial perspective. If a woman willingly goes through the medical procedure of birth either natural or C-section then both parents bear the financial responsibility of raising a kid.

These are two completely unrelated issues, financial responsibility of parents versus a citizen's rights to privacy and control over what medical procedures may be applied to their own body.
 
W

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
Texashiker said:
Equal rights for both sexes, the man should be able to make the woman abort.

To say that one or the other should receive special treatment is not being equal.
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RIIIIGGGHHHTTT!! Male and female are exactly equal in their reproductive process. Been pregnant lately?
 
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