Indian farmers committing suicide over failed GMO crops

[Texashiker]

In short:

Indian farmers buy GMO seeds
Crops fail, sometimes 2 years in a row
Bankrupt farmers commit suicide
The number of suicides equals around 1 every 30 minutes
In 2009, 17,638 Indian farmers committed suicide

http://naturalsociety.com/monsantos-gmo-seeds-farmer-suicides-every-30-minutes/

I can not help but feel sorry for small farmers that lose everything to failed crops. But is GM seeds to blame, or other factors like climate change?

Maybe mankind is pushing our reliance on science too fast? Mankind has survived for thousands of years on non-GM seeds, why change now?

GM seeds are supposed to offer improvements over traditional seeds. But this is our food we are talking about. This is something we have to have to live.

 

[SandEagle]

suicide? or starved to death?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Where the crop failures due to the lack of rain or too much rain? Overused farmland? Improperly prepared farmland (fertilizer used correct for soil conditions)?

Edited to add:

Looks like it maybe more due to drought than GM crops.

India drought causes poverty, debt and suicides

http://www.eutimes.net/2011/10/india-drought-causes-poverty-debt-and-suicides/

 

[Texashiker]

suicide? or starved to death?

Some of the farmers drank pesticide to kill themselves

Where the crop failures due to the lack of rain or too much rain? Overused farmland? Improperly prepared farmland (fertilizer used correct for soil conditions)?

That was the same question I had.

Mono-cropping is a problem is todays farming communities. Even though we know that crops are not supposed to be raised in the same fields year after year, some people still do it.

 

[silverpig]

I read about this years ago and have somewhat kept up on it.

The issue is the farmers used to grow natural crops. They were lower yield, but they could harvest the seeds to replant next year. Sometimes they had good years, sometimes they had bad years.

The GMO seeds are much higher yield but the plants do not produce viable seed for replanting (meaning the farmers have to keep re-buying them), and they require something like 2x the water that the natural seeds do. Often, this is either not communicated to the farmers, or it is not understood by them.

So the farmers go into debt to buy 1 year's worth of seeds which often don't produce the return they want, and when it comes time to replant for next year, they don't have viable seeds to replant, nor do they have money to buy more seeds. Farmers kill themselves by drinking pesticide.

The widow is then left with the farm, the debt, and the kids. She often has a go at it for one year before committing suicide too.

 

[FoBoT]

Fallacy of false cause or non sequitur: incorrectly assumes one thing is the cause of another. Non Sequitur is Latin for "It does not follow."
Special cases
post hoc ergo propter hoc: believing that temporal succession implies a causal relation.
Example
Argument: It rained just before the car broke down. The rain caused the car to break down.
Problem: There may be no connection between the two events. Two events co-occuring is not an indication of causation.

 

[xBiffx]

Has nothing, whatsoever to do with GM crops. But hey, might as well start another lie.

 

[xBiffx]

I read about this years ago and have somewhat kept up on it.

The issue is the farmers used to grow natural crops. They were lower yield, but they could harvest the seeds to replant next year. Sometimes they had good years, sometimes they had bad years.

The GMO seeds are much higher yield but the plants do not produce viable seed for replanting (meaning the farmers have to keep re-buying them), and they require something like 2x the water that the natural seeds do. Often, this is either not communicated to the farmers, or it is not understood by them.

So the farmers go into debt to buy 1 year's worth of seeds which often don't produce the return they want, and when it comes time to replant for next year, they don't have viable seeds to replant, nor do they have money to buy more seeds. Farmers kill themselves by drinking pesticide.

The widow is then left with the farm, the debt, and the kids. She often has a go at it for one year before committing suicide too.

Care to make up anything else? High yield crops do not require 2x times the water nor do seed companies sell seed without first educating their customer. The fact that they can't replant seeds is not, at all, the cause of them going into debt. They get much, much higher yields with those seeds meaning they have more profit than from a non high yield seed. This increase in profit far outweighs the extra cost to buy seed.

Honestly, what the fuck do people think? Do you really think that it makes sense to sell a seed that ends up costing the farmer more in resources to cultivate and costs more for them every year to buy. The point is to make their farm more productive, thereby bringing them back every year to buy seed.

 

[Texashiker]

<snip> The point is to make their farm more productive, thereby bringing them back every year to buy seed.

When you get a chance, read this article, you can thank me later.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7651977.stm

 

[PokerGuy]

They get much, much higher yields with those seeds meaning they have more profit than from a non high yield seed. This increase in profit far outweighs the extra cost to buy seed.

That's assuming there's a decent yield to begin with. Lets say you buy GM seeds to get the higher yield, but then it's too dry that year and you don't get much of a yield at all. Then, the next year, you don't have money and you don't have seeds to plant for the next year.

It's not a problem if you have a financial buffer that allows you to have one or two bad seasons, but if you don't have a buffer, it's very possible (in fact, even likely) that the farmers get into a far worse situation than had they used non GM seeds.

 

[xBiffx]

That's assuming there's a decent yield to begin with. Lets say you buy GM seeds to get the higher yield, but then it's too dry that year and you don't get much of a yield at all. Then, the next year, you don't have money and you don't have seeds to plant for the next year.

It's not a problem if you have a financial buffer that allows you to have one or two bad seasons, but if you don't have a buffer, it's very possible (in fact, even likely) that the farmers get into a far worse situation than had they used non GM seeds.

Your situation has nothing, yet again, to do with GM seed. No matter what seed you use, if you can't weather a bad growing season due to drought or some other natural phenomenon then you are in trouble. GM seed isn't to blame here, the weather is.

 

[PokerGuy]

Your situation has nothing, yet again, to do with GM seed. No matter what seed you use, if you can't weather a bad growing season due to drought or some other natural phenomenon then you are in trouble. GM seed isn't to blame here, the weather is.

That's not true. Using regular seed, even with a bad crop or low yield, you could still have seed to plant for the next season. With GM seeds, you get a potential double whammy - low yield (ie, no money), AND no seeds. That's a one-two punch many poor farmers can't recover from.

By the way, I don't claim to be an expert on this stuff, just saying what I think is logical.

 

[xBiffx]

That's not true. Using regular seed, even with a bad crop or low yield, you could still have seed to plant for the next season. With GM seeds, you get a potential double whammy - low yield (ie, no money), AND no seeds. That's a one-two punch many poor farmers can't recover from.

By the way, I don't claim to be an expert on this stuff, just saying what I think is logical.

How are they going to have anything to grow next season? They are already in financial ruin for missing/not benefiting from an entire growing season. These farmers can't miss a year of revenue so your argument really doesn't come into play. But you have one thing right, they might have seed the next year, to plant nowhere when they can't afford to live this year.

 

[radhak]

Your situation has nothing, yet again, to do with GM seed. No matter what seed you use, if you can't weather a bad growing season due to drought or some other natural phenomenon then you are in trouble. GM seed isn't to blame here, the weather is.

Sorry - you are not hearing (reading) what the others said; better still, you should read reports from impartial sources instead of the seed manufacturers.

WSJ has a telling report : The Pros and Cons of Genetically Modified Seeds

Neatly, all the 'pros' seem to come from those who stand to financially profit : the seed manufacturers, sellers, or officials who need to keep the international community (ie, investors, businesses, etc) happy.

Since it's a long report, I'll quote some parts that are pertinent :
a. "On paper, genetic engineering is made to look very good, but on the ground it's a tragedy," says Vandana Shiva, a physicist turned environmental activist ... "Otherwise, we wouldn't have farmer suicides concentrated in the Bt cotton belt." More than 200,000 Indian farmers have committed suicide over the past decade, according to government statistics... (that's govt statistics, which are always shaved downwards)

b. "The indebtedness is created by nonrenewable [transgenic] seeds that have to be bought every year," rather than the farm-saved ones, which can be re-used, she says. After Bt seeds arrived in the country in 2002, the price of cotton seeds jumped from Rs. 7 a bag (which covers one acre) to Rs. 1,700 a bag, she says. (The price today is around Rs. 750.)

That's from 14 cents a bag to $34 a bag!!! A jump of 250 times - that's right, 25,000% - in cost of 'raw material'?!!? Even the 'reduced' price today ($15) is a 100 times the original cost. That would drive me to suicide, if I were a small-business owner with nowhere else to turn to.

Actually, you should read the full article - too much there for me to extract or quote : the system is 'self-regulatory', allowing the large companies too much leeway ; the GMO seeds have given rise to new pests, needing much more pesticide usage than before; tightening monopoly on the market by the foreign companies...

FWIW, the Indian govt seems to have taken cognizance of the complaints; but there is absolutely little hope for the farmers at the bottom of the lot. While Indian weather conditions have always been cruel, GMO seeds have made it much, much worse for the poorest of the farmer.

The worst of it is, Indian farmers have very little recourse to law, unlike in the US, as this shows : Organic farmers sue Monsanto over GMO seeds.

In all this, Indian officials have more of the blame - they grabbed at the promise of the seller without judging their own country's unique challenges.

But at the same time, other countries might do well to reconsider GMO seeds - they are not all rosy.

 

[Moonbeam]

On a positive note, the GM seed sellers will go bankrupt when all the farmers are dead.

 

[xBiffx]

Sorry - you are not hearing (reading) what the others said; better still, you should read reports from impartial sources instead of the seed manufacturers.

WSJ has a telling report : The Pros and Cons of Genetically Modified Seeds

Neatly, all the 'pros' seem to come from those who stand to financially profit : the seed manufacturers, sellers, or officials who need to keep the international community (ie, investors, businesses, etc) happy.

Since it's a long report, I'll quote some parts that are pertinent :
a. "On paper, genetic engineering is made to look very good, but on the ground it's a tragedy," says Vandana Shiva, a physicist turned environmental activist ... "Otherwise, we wouldn't have farmer suicides concentrated in the Bt cotton belt." More than 200,000 Indian farmers have committed suicide over the past decade, according to government statistics... (that's govt statistics, which are always shaved downwards)

b. "The indebtedness is created by nonrenewable [transgenic] seeds that have to be bought every year," rather than the farm-saved ones, which can be re-used, she says. After Bt seeds arrived in the country in 2002, the price of cotton seeds jumped from Rs. 7 a bag (which covers one acre) to Rs. 1,700 a bag, she says. (The price today is around Rs. 750.)

That's from 14 cents a bag to $34 a bag!!! A jump of 250 times - that's right, 25,000% - in cost of 'raw material'?!!? Even the 'reduced' price today ($15) is a 100 times the original cost. That would drive me to suicide, if I were a small-business owner with nowhere else to turn to.

Actually, you should read the full article - too much there for me to extract or quote : the system is 'self-regulatory', allowing the large companies too much leeway ; the GMO seeds have given rise to new pests, needing much more pesticide usage than before; tightening monopoly on the market by the foreign companies...

FWIW, the Indian govt seems to have taken cognizance of the complaints; but there is absolutely little hope for the farmers at the bottom of the lot. While Indian weather conditions have always been cruel, GMO seeds have made it much, much worse for the poorest of the farmer.

The worst of it is, Indian farmers have very little recourse to law, unlike in the US, as this shows : Organic farmers sue Monsanto over GMO seeds.

In all this, Indian officials have more of the blame - they grabbed at the promise of the seller without judging their own country's unique challenges.

But at the same time, other countries might do well to reconsider GMO seeds - they are not all rosy.

All I have to say to your garbage post is that GMO seeds are priced for the market. They will always be more expensive than non GMO seeds. They are priced according to the yield/benefit increases and profit increases of the farmer. No GMO seed manufacturer is going to make any money pricing themselves out of business. The farmers pay the price that is set for a bag of seed, if they cannot afford it, they don't go GMO. No one is forcing GMO seeds on any farmer, they have a choice, many choose GMO due to the benefits and increased revenue generated from using that seed. The revenue increase far offsets the cost of the seeds. If this were not the case, no one would by them.

Also, nothing at all with regards to this debate definitively shows that the reason farmers are killing themselves is because of GMO seeds. That is nothing but conjecture.

 

[radhak]

All I have to say to your garbage post

Same to you.

You are better off silent, else you show your ignorance. Not everybody has choice, nor the ability to identify the untruth in advertisements, particularly when they are illiterate and poor. MNCs find it easier to make a buck (or a million) off them, and blame them for not deciding correctly for themselves. And if you think the GMO seeds are going to provide 200 times the yield of the regular ones, you should seek help.

Since you did not read my post, nor seem to understand the articles I linked to, please don't respond to my posts. I will be perfectly happy not to have you as an audience for mine.

 

[xBiffx]

Same to you.

You are better off silent, else you show your ignorance. Not everybody has choice, nor the ability to identify the untruth in advertisements, particularly when they are illiterate and poor. MNCs find it easier to make a buck (or a million) off them, and blame them for not deciding correctly for themselves. And if you think the GMO seeds are going to provide 200 times the yield of the regular ones, you should seek help.

Since you did not read my post, nor seem to understand the articles I linked to, please don't respond to my posts. I will be perfectly happy not to have you as an audience for mine.

I will do whatever I please. I did read your post, your article. I have seen it before you posted it.

You haven't made one logical statement due to your hatred of GMO seed clouding your vision. Your rage has done nothing to advance your position. You like to misrepresent what people say, or simply put words in their mouth.

Like GMO seed or not, your version of reality would not continue to exist because the seed company wouldn't be selling anything to anyone. They would price themselves out of business or have no customers to sell to. What business have you seen use this model successfully? Once you realize all of this, you will realize that no one is holding a gun to these farmers' heads but themselves.

 

[jagec]

Care to make up anything else? High yield crops do not require 2x times the water

High yield crops violate the conservation of matter?

If you make twice as much of something, you need twice as many raw materials, assuming the same efficiency.

GM crops don't address the efficiency of biochemical pathways, they only adjust the "setpoint" for growth and/or add disease resistance genes. So, if you're able to double the yield per acre, you'll also remove twice as many nutrients and water from the soil. This is something that has to be taken into consideration when planting/fertilizing.

There are certainly two sides to any story, but claiming that GM crops are magical just makes you look like an industry shill.

 

[busydude]

All I can say is the farmers in India committed suicides way before GM crops came into existence. I'll give you guys my opinion after lunch.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

This is terrible. Hopefully Monsanto will soon bring us GMO people that only require half the food and self fulfillment of organic people to prevent this tragedy from continuing.

 

[Icepick]

I read about this years ago and have somewhat kept up on it.

The issue is the farmers used to grow natural crops. They were lower yield, but they could harvest the seeds to replant next year. Sometimes they had good years, sometimes they had bad years.

The GMO seeds are much higher yield but the plants do not produce viable seed for replanting (meaning the farmers have to keep re-buying them), and they require something like 2x the water that the natural seeds do. Often, this is either not communicated to the farmers, or it is not understood by them.

So the farmers go into debt to buy 1 year's worth of seeds which often don't produce the return they want, and when it comes time to replant for next year, they don't have viable seeds to replant, nor do they have money to buy more seeds. Farmers kill themselves by drinking pesticide.

The widow is then left with the farm, the debt, and the kids. She often has a go at it for one year before committing suicide too.

Nice summary of the problem. This has been going on for years now. Farmers are tricked into buying these seeds without any education on what they are signing up for. Later, when they find themselves heavily in debt and no way to replenish their seeds they commit suicide. I'm not sure what the solution to this problem is other than to get the word out to the masses to avoid these engineered seeds.

 

[Mxylplyx]

I think I will give GM seeds that contribute to the US being the largest and most efficient food producer in the world the benefit of the doubt over poor, rural, uneducated Indian farmers.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

High yield crops violate the conservation of matter?

If you make twice as much of something, you need twice as many raw materials, assuming the same efficiency.

GM crops don't address the efficiency of biochemical pathways, they only adjust the "setpoint" for growth and/or add disease resistance genes. So, if you're able to double the yield per acre, you'll also remove twice as many nutrients and water from the soil. This is something that has to be taken into consideration when planting/fertilizing.

There are certainly two sides to any story, but claiming that GM crops are magical just makes you look like an industry shill.

lol.

xbiffx - you just can't win with some people. This post I quoted is a prime example. People think they know but haven't a clue. I know more about the seed industry than I care to but here on ATPN the fact about seed/crops don't matter -it's all about "feelings".

 

[JTsyo]

Sounds like there needs to be an insurance program for the farmers. Pay in during the good years, get money to buy seeds after the bad years.