India

Lost_in_the_HTTP

Diamond Member
Nov 17, 2019
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Can we talk about India?

I'm not a fan for a number of reasons. How they're strongarming Kashmir for one. Word is they're buying Russian oil recently and enabling some other financial transactions.

And they have the Big Kabooma Mushroomas too.

Personally, I think they're a bigger threat than others who have been demonized.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
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It sucks but what’s the alternative? What can the US do to help these countries?

Its hard to complain when there isn’t a viable solution.

What’s funny about this though is that Hillary Clinton and others saw this which was why they supported fracking and other cheap energy alternatives as opposed to buying oil from Russia. But people are so short sighted and aren’t versed enough in most subjects to understand the reality. Hell, to this day, people still talk Shit about gore and his alternative energy push. Just imagine where we and the world would be had we gone all in. Now imagine the future we’d be in if we listened to Carter and started down the alternative energy path back then.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
30,998
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Can we talk about India?
...
Personally, I think they're a bigger threat than others who have been demonized.
I guess condemning them for having nuclear weapons was a bad idea.
Unless they were already in the Soviet sphere before that moment.
Did we push India away, or no?

I cannot say there is anything to do. Their offense is that they will finance Russia? China is in the same ballpark.
What we need to do is build an economic great wall. Have the West united against Russia, have our allies cut ties with our enemies. Then decide how far they are willing to go. Do we cut ties with the allies of our enemies? An ultimatum, either you do business with us or with Russia, you CANNOT do both? It should be a global appeal, pressure applied by a united West.

The issue is that we are financing the ambitions of killers who have their sights set on us.
How far do we want to go to stop that?

We need to decide where the lines are drawn, and what happens when those lines are crossed. Even with Ukraine, there may not be enough unity among "us" to see a plan come to successful fruition. Such actions need to be carefully organized and decisively enacted. A mishmashed hodgepodge of various sanctions will only serve to aggro nations that might otherwise join us if a meaningful offer was made.

We cannot just push nations away, we must also draw them in.
 
Mar 11, 2004
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Eh, fuck it, just realized I was in a thread started by the OP.

It sucks but what’s the alternative? What can the US do to help these countries?

Its hard to complain when there isn’t a viable solution.

What’s funny about this though is that Hillary Clinton and others saw this which was why they supported fracking and other cheap energy alternatives as opposed to buying oil from Russia. But people are so short sighted and aren’t versed enough in most subjects to understand the reality. Hell, to this day, people still talk Shit about gore and his alternative energy push. Just imagine where we and the world would be had we gone all in. Now imagine the future we’d be in if we listened to Carter and started down the alternative energy path back then.
Alternative to what?

Er, what? Can you be more generic in your "well like bad stuff, so, *shrug* amirite?" What are you even talking about specifically? You guys need to learn to break this mentality as there's actually a lot we can do, but if you keep just acting like bad stuff is bad and welp, what can we do, then nothing will be done.

Our entire federal government knew this. Even Republicans knew this. Granted they didn't actually give a shit about that, but rather were just seeking to enrich fossil fuel industry more than anything. I don't think people are that ignorant, or not knowing that is the issue there. The problem is its stupid for us to fuck over our personal health just for cheaper fossil fuel prices (that don't even fucking matter when we let corporations jack prices up with no consequences), as that just shunts the true cost to another industry. Cheap energy, regardless of where its coming from is a big problem until we ditch fossil fuels.

Yes, and ironically, if we had it likely would have done a lot to keep the level of rural flight we've seen much reduced as it would have created a ton of jobs in those regions. Hell, all the people that want to live simpler lives, borderline off grid, close to nature, would be able to much more easily. It would have likely helped a lot with homelessness as cities have been inundated with people moving there.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
68,668
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Eh, fuck it, just realized I was in a thread started by the OP.



Alternative to what?

Er, what? Can you be more generic in your "well like bad stuff, so, *shrug* amirite?" What are you even talking about specifically? You guys need to learn to break this mentality as there's actually a lot we can do, but if you keep just acting like bad stuff is bad and welp, what can we do, then nothing will be done.

Our entire federal government knew this. Even Republicans knew this. Granted they didn't actually give a shit about that, but rather were just seeking to enrich fossil fuel industry more than anything. I don't think people are that ignorant, or not knowing that is the issue there. The problem is its stupid for us to fuck over our personal health just for cheaper fossil fuel prices (that don't even fucking matter when we let corporations jack prices up with no consequences), as that just shunts the true cost to another industry. Cheap energy, regardless of where its coming from is a big problem until we ditch fossil fuels.

Yes, and ironically, if we had it likely would have done a lot to keep the level of rural flight we've seen much reduced as it would have created a ton of jobs in those regions. Hell, all the people that want to live simpler lives, borderline off grid, close to nature, would be able to much more easily. It would have likely helped a lot with homelessness as cities have been inundated with people moving there.
Aside from the fact I have a sympathy for those who see the situation as hopeless based on the centripetal force against change the conservative brain represents, I agree with this analysis. With cheap renewable energy a civilization should pretty much be able to accomplish just about anything. Essentially it should mean that nobody has to works for a living opening the door to being able to explore and develop in any direction one has a mind to.

India, like so many other countries has to deal with all the issues that nationalism and religious affiliation bring to the modern scene whit more and more seeking to have a voice. Right wing nationalism is not universally loved in India any more than it is in the US. I also think that green energy and India will march hand in hand.
 

Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
3,961
91
106
Can we talk about India?

I'm not a fan for a number of reasons. How they're strongarming Kashmir for one. Word is they're buying Russian oil recently and enabling some other financial transactions.

And they have the Big Kabooma Mushroomas too.

Personally, I think they're a bigger threat than others who have been demonized.
Dreaming of regime change in India, aren't you?

Forget it, it is never gonna happen. Ha Ha Ha
 

tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
13,017
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With their caste system firmly engrained in their culture, I don't see any major changes happening in their mores and folkways of their own version of what a democracy is and how they as a nation fits within the world community writ large.

With these agreements between India and the USA, it seems as if there is a mutual interest between the two nations as far as the security of each is concerned:

U.S.-India defense trade cooperation continues to expand with the Logistics Exchange Memorandum of Agreement (LEMOA), Communications, Compatibility and Security Agreement (COMCASA), and the Industrial Security Agreement (ISA) now in place.

In 2016, India and the United States signed the Logistics Exchange Memorandum of Agreement and India was declared a Major Defense Partner of the United States.

This from a cursory search of any relationships India has with the USA.
 

R0H1T

Platinum Member
Jan 12, 2013
2,570
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Can we talk about India?

I'm not a fan for a number of reasons. How they're strongarming Kashmir for one. Word is they're buying Russian oil recently and enabling some other financial transactions.

And they have the Big Kabooma Mushroomas too.

Personally, I think they're a bigger threat than others who have been demonized.
What? I find it funny how almost every discussion about India starts with either Kashmir or fascism/Modi when in fact J&K acceded to India & your friendly terror capital of the world i.e. Islamic nation of Pak attacked India & took chunks of it, not to mention gave a fair portion of it to China 🙄

Funny because the US, & UK, have always supported Pak through direct & indirect means knowing full well they waged 3 wars across with India, sponsored terror ~ yes state sponsored terror, & yet we are the bad guys? I suppose when you want to follow an ideology &/or oppose some other you will go to any lengths trying to distort facts!
With their caste system firmly engrained in their culture, I don't see any major changes happening in their mores and folkways of their own version of what a democracy is and how they as a nation fits within the world community writ large.
Another revisionist BS, can you find me any historical references to castes in Indian literature? Or in any of our historical texts, including Mahabharat or Ramayan?

Yes caste system is a big issue but there's no evidence that it was that big of an issue, or really ingrained in the society, pre colonial times!
The resulting categorical system became rigid during the next century and quarter, as the made-up categories came to be associated with real rights. Religion-based electorates in British India and caste-based reservations in independent India made amorphous categories concrete. There came to be real and material consequences of belonging to one category (like Jain or Scheduled Caste) instead of another. Categorisation, as it turned out in India, was destiny.

The vast scholarship of the last few decades allows us to make a strong case that the British colonisers wrote the first and defining draft of Indian history.

So deeply inscribed is this draft in the public imagination that it is now accepted as the truth. It is imperative that we begin to question these imagined truths.
The biggest issue today arguably is that the SC/ST & OBC's have quotas for them in govt jobs & nearly all educational institutions ~ affirmative action, remember that? Unlike the West India has implemented it for more than half a century & the fact that the quotas reserved for them is often more than 50% of all available positions is the biggest issue these days!

Among most if not all Asian nations India is still the most plural, culturally diverse & secular nation there is ~ the BJP rule at the center doesn't change that. However I'll admit that using religion to gain votes is something they've engaged more often than not ~ that is something which probably will break down our millennia+ of relative harmony!
 
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sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
10,488
2,193
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It sucks but what’s the alternative? What can the US do to help these countries?

Its hard to complain when there isn’t a viable solution.

What’s funny about this though is that Hillary Clinton and others saw this which was why they supported fracking and other cheap energy alternatives as opposed to buying oil from Russia. But people are so short sighted and aren’t versed enough in most subjects to understand the reality. Hell, to this day, people still talk Shit about gore and his alternative energy push. Just imagine where we and the world would be had we gone all in. Now imagine the future we’d be in if we listened to Carter and started down the alternative energy path back then.
I often imagine a solar energy America. Think about it.... all of that roof top real estate just going to waste. Every rooftop should have solar panels instead of shingles. And America could have/should have gone full steam on research to invent the best solar panels ten times as efficient as those of today, and as thin as a slice of bread. We could have done this easily and everyone could now enjoy free energy and free heating and free energy independence.
But no.... just like with everything else the lobbyist for fossil fuels corrupt our congress to do exactly what congress should not do. It is still happening today... just ask Joe Manchin. His family wallows in fossil fuel profits while the rest of us suffers. Joe Biden has the foresight to prepare for that energy independent America and I don't mean drill baby drill, I mean real energy independence with clean fuels like solar. But Joe Manchin says NO !!! No, because his family wealth would suffer.
Someday, 1000 years from now, future inhabitants of this earth will look back on this current era as truly the dark ages.
We will never know what we missed out on, all because of greed and profit from dirty energy and corrupt politicians.
 
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Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
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so, you praise the man (for what, exactly? actual numbers. let's see them) while accepting the genocide that he and his rabid supporters are perpetrating? That's...what you have to own.
Can we talk about India?

I'm not a fan for a number of reasons. How they're strongarming Kashmir for one. Word is they're buying Russian oil recently and enabling some other financial transactions.

And they have the Big Kabooma Mushroomas too.

Personally, I think they're a bigger threat than others who have been demonized.
You had no problems when the U.S./U.K were providing money and military aid to Pakistan despite the fact the same was used to sponsor terror attacks on our soil. You had no problems when the Kashmir Pandits were driven out of Kashmir by radical Islamist terrorists/separatists. You have no problems with the EU purchasing oil products from Russia.

But for you, India becomes a threat when all we are trying to do is safeguard our interests. Now don't try to preach against that, the West has been doing the same for centuries and you never had a problem with that either.

So you are not a fan of India? Oh no, how will we ever sleep soundly knowing that American leftists and liberals are not a fan of our actions!

Go cry a river.
 
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Leeea

Golden Member
Apr 3, 2020
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Sanction them.

Law is already in place. Just do nothing at let it take effect.

reference:
CAATSA

 
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Leeea

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Apr 3, 2020
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India has always flirted with Russia and the following Time magazine piece recounts their relationship.

China and India nearly fought a war along their common border in 2020 in the Himalayas and tensions have only slightly eased.

India's dalliance with Russia
That is exactly why we can push on them into do the right thing for democracy.

It is true India is dependent on Russia for its military capabilities, but it is also true India's defense budget is only 23% of China's. India is incapable of investing enough resources into defense to be able to stop China in the next round of violence. It does not matter how good of a deal India makes with Russia. China will be in a position to implement China's will by superior firepower.

Russia is also a very poor alignment for India. Russia will happily toss them to the Chinese for a few RMB, and India knows it. Russia needs China, Russia wants India.


If India is going to avoid having China taking its offshore resources and taking bites out of the disputed areas, it needs to align itself with a power capable of deterring China. There is only one game in town for that, the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue with Australia, India, Japan, and the United States.



India needs to choose between BRICS or QUAD. The time to decide is now.
 

Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
3,961
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Sanction them.

Law is already in place. Just do nothing at let it take effect.

reference:
CAATSA

The U.S. has sanctioned India in the past. It's not the end of the world.

You will have to try harder to find a way to destroy us.
 

Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
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That is exactly why we can push on them into do the right thing for democracy.

It is true India is dependent on Russia for its military capabilities, but it is also true India's defense budget is only 23% of China's. India is incapable of investing enough resources into defense to be able to stop China in the next round of violence. It does not matter how good of a deal India makes with Russia. China will be in a position to implement China's will by superior firepower.

Russia is also a very poor alignment for India. Russia will happily toss them to the Chinese for a few RMB, and India knows it. Russia needs China, Russia wants India.


If India is going to avoid having China taking its offshore resources and taking bites out of the disputed areas, it needs to align itself with a power capable of deterring China. There is only one game in town for that, the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue with Australia, India, Japan, and the United States.



India needs to choose between BRICS or QUAD. The time to decide is now.
India is a nuclear power and China knows it. Also China has already tried to encroach upon our border territories recently and was given a good slap around by India fighting alone.

India is already a part of QUAD and will continue to remain so. The war in Ukraine is unlikely to change the status on that.

Sorry, you still have to try harder to find a way to ruin us.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
23,032
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Sorry, you still have to try harder to find a way to ruin us.
Problems like these have a way of taking care of themselves.... be a shame if US companies stopped doing business in India wouldn't it?

I was unaware of BRICS although considering the trash CLASS-ACT's you folks have for leaders these days I'm not a bit surprised to learn about it.
 
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UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
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India has long been in the Soviet/Russo sphere of influence, even back when they were founding members of the so-called "Non Aligned Movement". The "non-aligned" part only meant that they'd be free to do business with either--except India's first 3 decades as an independent country saw strong socialist restrictions imposed on outside American businesses (not surprising given their anti-colonial bent) as well as a majority of arms purchases coming from the USSR.

America saw India being armed by Soviets and made one of the worst foreign policy mistakes by aligning with Pakistan and arming them. Can't blame their thinking at the time, because every Communist influence needed to be countered.
 

Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
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Problems like these have a way of taking care of themselves.... be a shame if US companies stopped doing business in India wouldn't it?

I was unaware of BRICS although considering the trash you folks have for leaders these days I'm not a bit surprised to learn about it.

Hate to be the one to break it to you but the thoughts that are first to cross my mind when I think of India are racism and rotting sewage-smells from the disgustingly polluted "holy" (rotfl) Ganges river.

Why don't you go take a dip? ;)
Sorry to say, the only dip here was taken by you into the cesspool of crassness.

If thats the way you want to remember India, it's your right to do so. But then you don't have a right to preach Indians of their stand in any issue, much less than this one.

And oh, remember with this post, you prove you are just as bigoted as the far right.
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
10,207
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As I understood it, BRICS is purely an informal term for a bunch of nations that happen to share roughly similar political/economic trajectories and economic situations. It's in no sense a formal organization or alliance, like the EU or NATO, or even the non-aligned movement. More akin to the way Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain got accorded an (unflattering) acronym at one point, when they all suffered similar economic troubles.

Personally I'm more negatively disposed to Pakistan than India (as pointless as it is for an individual to have such opinions about entire nations). Pakistan being a hugely dysfunctional country, riddled with corruption and extremist ideologies, that has never worked properly due to having been founded on a contradiction, and which apparently sufferes a disastrous cultural cringe with respect to Gulf Arab Islam. And it behaved quite criminally towards Bangladesh back when it broke away. Of course its very existence is in signifcant part our (UK's) fault, so probably am in no position to judge...

I can't say I like Modi very much, to me he does seem rather like India's version of Trump or Erdogan. But there are people in my own family (who come from that part of the world) who are sympathetic to him. I don't think I know India well enough to really make a judgement on it all. Even with Trump there seem to be some nuances - it's not a simple goodies-vs-baddies situation.

But I don't think it's hugely surprising that the 'global south' are not rushing to side with the West over Ukraine. Why should they be expected to share the US's position that bombings of civilians and denial of self-determination to smaller nations suddenly becomes a vital issue of principle when white people are the victims?

The West is quite happy to take an instrumentalist, amoral 'national interest' stance over Yemen, or the status of Guantanamo, or the Palestinians, or any number of other issues. It seems hypocritical to expect everyone else to put morality first when it's white Europeans involved. India is worrying about its own economic and strategic self-interests, just as the US and EU consistently have for most of their history.
 

Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
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And I care about your opinion why exactly?

Going to cut me off from "tech-support"? :p

The reason those impressions are the ones I have of India are because they are the impressions your country makes to the world.

Unfolding the Reality of Racism in India

The Ganges, India’s biggest sewage line



You must be so proud! :rolleyes:


Stay in bed with Puta.... that's right where you and Modi belong.


*(sincere apologies to all the NON-jerk Indian people out there!)
Yea, unknown sources and a apology to all Indians for the crassness in your previous statements too. Keep it up, lefty/liberal. Your post is a shining example of the bigotry we, the Indian people face.
 
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Leeea

Golden Member
Apr 3, 2020
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Hate to be the one to break it to you but the thoughts that are first to cross my mind when I think of India are racism and rotting sewage-smells from the disgustingly polluted "holy" (rotfl) Ganges river.

Why don't you go take a dip? ;)
On the subject of racism perhaps you should take a look in the mirror?


India does have huge issues, but the phrasing of your postings are racist.
 
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Leeea

Golden Member
Apr 3, 2020
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India has long been in the Soviet/Russo sphere of influence, even back when they were founding members of the so-called "Non Aligned Movement". The "non-aligned" part only meant that they'd be free to do business with either--except India's first 3 decades as an independent country saw strong socialist restrictions imposed on outside American businesses (not surprising given their anti-colonial bent) as well as a majority of arms purchases coming from the USSR.
I question if India was ever going to be part of the west.

I have felt that Russia's way of doing business was far more compatible with the kick back oriented nature of India's politicians. The Russian's understand corruption, and it is a world they are better suited to navigate.

Western companies have to deal with laws against that sort of thing, and that makes it considerably more difficult for them to navigate around in a system like India where all of the policymakers are deeply corrupt.


I personally feel India will choose Russia this time around. Not because it is the best choice for India, but rather it is the best choice for policy makers looking to do business with a power familiar with hiding their corruption.

America saw India being armed by Soviets and made one of the worst foreign policy mistakes by aligning with Pakistan and arming them. Can't blame their thinking at the time, because every Communist influence needed to be countered.
Yes.
 

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