India welcomes patients outsourcing themselves

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
India outsourcing a cure-all

Saritha Rai | The New York Times

Until recently, real estate agent Robert Beeney lived in pain. But when he finally decided to do something about the discomfort, he spurned the usual choices.

His doctors advised that he get his hip joint replaced, which his insurer would pay for, but after doing some research on the internet, he decided to get a different procedure - joint resurfacing - not covered by his insurance. And instead of going to a San Francisco hospital, he chose to go to India and paid $US6,600 ($8600), a fraction of the $US25,000 he would have paid at home.

Beeney flew to Hyderabad and had the surgery at Apollo Hospital by a London-trained specialist, Vijay Bose. Two weeks later, Beeney says that he was walking around the Taj Mahal "like any other tourist".

His story is increasingly common, as Europeans and Americans, looking for world-class treatment at prices a fourth or fifth of what they would be at home, are travelling to India. Modern hospitals, skilled doctors and advanced treatments are helping foreigners overcome some of their qualms about getting treatment in India.

Even as politicians and workers' groups oppose the corporate practice of outsourcing, Beeney and patients like him are literally outsourcing themselves - not only in India but also in countries like Thailand and Singapore - for all kinds of medical services from cosmetic to critical surgeries.

About 150,000 foreigners visited India for medical treatments in the year to March 2004, the Confederation of Indian Industry said. That number was projected to rise by 15per cent each year for the next several years. Consultancy McKinsey & Co says foreign visitors will help Indian hospitals earn about $US2.3 billion by 2012.

"Health is an emotional issue; it's not like buying a toy or a shirt made abroad," said a health-care analyst for McKinsey, Gautam Kumra. "Nevertheless, you cannot deny the power of economics."

For some foreigners, like George Marshall from England, India's hospitals also offer speedier treatments. Last year, Marshall says that he started having trouble finishing a round of golf. An angiogram showed two blocked arteries in his heart. With the British National Health Service, Marshall would have had to wait three weeks to see a specialist, and six more months for coronary bypass surgery. "At 73, I don't have the time to wait," Marshall says. "Six months could be the rest of my life." Nor could he afford the $US38,000 for surgery at a private hospital.

After an internet search and a chance meeting with a businessman who had gone to India for surgery, Marshall travelled to the Wockhardt Hospital in Bangalore in southern India. His surgeon, Vivek Jawali, had trained at Great Ormond Street Hospital in London. The men chatted about British politics and Jawali gave Marshall his cellphone number and said that he was available 24hours. A surprised Marshall says that in the British health system, "you are just a number, but here you are a person." Including travel expenses, the surgery cost him $US8400.

While the number of patients from the West is still small in India, the trend is expected to grow as populations age and health costs balloon. In India, cardiac surgeries cost about one-fifth of what they would in the US; orthopedic treatments cost about one-fourth as much and cataract surgeries are as low as one-tenth of their cost at American hospitals. Kumra, the McKinsey health consultant who also advises the car industry, noted that corporations like General Motors spend $US5 billion on health care annually. "When you buy a GM car, you are helping GM fund $US2000 or $US3000 towards health-care costs of retired workers," he says.

To curb spending, corporations are being forced to look for creative, low-cost solutions. For instance, radiologists working for Wipro, a software and information technology company based in Bangalore, analyse X-rays and scans from US hospitals for a fraction of the cost. SRL Ranbaxy, a New Delhi-based diagnostics firm, tests blood serum and tissue samples from British hospitals. Health specialists say that sending patients to India for treatment is not as unthinkable as it was 20 years ago.

"India is well-positioned to expand into this area of outsourcing," says John Lovelock, a global industries analyst for Gartner. "India is equipped to provide long-term, labour-intensive, in-patient rehabilitation services, which are under-serviced in North America," he says.

Apollo Hospital's founder, Prathap Reddy, a surgeon trained at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston, says that health care in India has changed drastically from the time he returned to open his first hospital in 1983.

"Then, all rich Indians rushed overseas for medical help." Now, Reddy has 200 doctors on his staff who are qualified to work in the US, and has many wealthy Indian expatriates as clients.

Still, some hospitals in India are discovering that affordable costs and foreign-trained doctors may not be enough to make India a global health-care destination. The country's dilapidated airports, garbage-strewn streets and overcrowded slums can put off even the hardiest foreigners.

"Some foreign patients arrived at the airport and took the next flight back," says Reddy, who has been trying to persuade the local government in Chennai to clear the slum next to his hospital. "I can change the insides of my hospitals," he says, "but I cannot change the airports and roads."

Text
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Is this the next wave of outsourcing? Are our hospitals and medical costs that expensive that patients will travel overseas to get treatment? I think this is big news and reminds us how big and real globalization really is. People around the world are using our educational system against us. Who knows, maybe in the long run this will be good news for the US.

Globalization has really boosted India to the top of the world stage. I am grateful for that. This country is the world's biggest democracy, and instead of strengthening our alliance with it, we are sending it mixed messages by treating it as a equal to that of its enemy next door. As the US moves into the future, we will need India more and more. The future of the world is not with America or Europe anymore, its with China, India and Asia in general.

I don't think most Americans are fully aware that the world is stepping up its game and catching up rapidly. Think its time for America to change its game as well and position ourselves according to this fast changing world? I think so. We need another goal, another great goal that will inspire greatness. Like the moonshot target of Kennedy which created thousands of scientists, engineers and thousands of new inventions. That ultimately led America to become the powerhouse in the world in terms of science and innovation. We are losing our lead. It is interesting however that a lot of specialized doctors in the top hospitals in India are actually educated in the United States. To some people though, the choice is pretty easy, they would rather travel to India and pay $8,000 rather than pay 4 or 5 times that amount in their home country.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
61
Maybe our healthcare industry needs some good competition. Doctors here make too much money.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: raildogg

Is this the next wave of outsourcing?

Are our hospitals and medical costs that expensive that patients will travel overseas to get treatment?

I think this is big news and reminds us how big and real globalization really is.

People around the world are using our educational system against us.

Who knows, maybe in the long run this will be good news for the US.

Globalization has really boosted India to the top of the world stage. I am grateful for that.

This country is the world's biggest democracy, and instead of strengthening our alliance with it, we are sending it mixed messages by treating it as a equal to that of its enemy next door. As the US moves into the future, we will need India more and more. The future of the world is not with America or Europe anymore, its with China, India and Asia in general.

I don't think most Americans are fully aware that the world is stepping up its game and catching up rapidly.

To some people though, the choice is pretty easy, they would rather travel to India and pay $8,000 rather than pay 4 or 5 times that amount in their home country.

I was going to post this in my U.S. No Healthcare thread.

Tenet Hospital systems is being sued Nationwide for it's excessive charges.

They have been charging $100 for an aspirin for example.

The way they have been justifying it is similar to how the State calculated 59 cents per second for Internet against me. They are taking the costs to run their entire Hospital system Nationwide and factoring in to come up with the $100 per aspirin.

Here is an example where Tenet charged a lady $1,560 for treatment while a Hospital down the street charged $48 for the same exact treatment.

4-23-2005 Tenet Price Gouging

After a car accident last August, Lisa Salvato's left hand was weak and trembling. A neurologist told her to find a therapist for strengthening exercises. Thus began her odyssey into the murky, confusing depths of hospital pricing.

First she went for outpatient therapy at Palmetto General in Hialeah. Charges: An average of $1,560 a session, most of which were 45 minutes.

After the bills started rolling in after 11 sessions, she decided to find something cheaper. A friend recommended a therapist at Memorial Regional in Hollywood. She went. Cost: Less than $50 a session.

''Basically, it was the same kind of treatment,'' says Salvato, 37, an unemployed North
Miami resident. ``I think something's really wrong with the system. If I'd known about those price differences before I started, I certainly would have made different choices.''


Some politicians would like hospitals to let customers know their prices in advance of receiving treatment.

A bipartisan bill introduced in the House of Representatives would require hospitals nationwide to reveal the prices of their 25 most common procedures. A measure passed last year by the Florida Legislature would make pricing of some procedures available.

 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
To be a doctor in the US, you must first become a CPA!

My last and only surgeries were done by a doctor from China and another from India! That was in the George Washington University system! No discount either.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
I don't care if there's competition between doctors, but I'm sick of US tax dollars training foreigners.
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
1
81
this is nothing new really. Poeple here go there for cheap dental service, as dental isn't covered by OHIP. My dad did it once as well: he had about 2000 worth of dental work that needed to be done, instead of paying that, he got a $800 ticket to bg and it only cost him ~300 there.
 

totalcommand

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2004
2,487
0
0
Originally posted by: bamacre
Maybe our healthcare industry needs some good competition. Doctors here make too much money.

I don't understand why patients think their doctors are the ones who are trying to extort them. Could someone answer this for me?

The medical profession is definitely no longer a place to make money. Doctors are paid per procedure, not by the patient, but by HMO's. And the HMO's have decided that the money doctors get does not depend on how much time they spend with the patient, or the difficulty of the procedure, it's simply what the procedure's name is. So, rather than relying on a salary-type income, doctors have to rely on how many procedures they set up, creating a partial conflict of interest.

Dentists, who fix your teeth and don't significantly improve the quality of your life like a doctor, now get paid more than doctors. That is unbelievable to me.

Doctors have about 0 control over the costs of procedures.

You should turn your anger towards the HMO's and our politicians who protect them. It's too bad doctors are the ones who are suffering because of some corporate profit nonsense.
 

totalcommand

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2004
2,487
0
0
Originally posted by: Infohawk
I don't care if there's competition between doctors, but I'm sick of US tax dollars training foreigners.

Foreigners are probably a thousand times more valuable than you know. The ability of the U.S. to attract brilliant foreigners to immigrate is what helps keep innovation growing in this country. The way to attract them is by training them. And by the way, US tax dollars do not go to training foreigners in any way near to the amount that tax dollars go to train americans. They are trained by private money, or their own money.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Originally posted by: totalcommand
Originally posted by: bamacre
Maybe our healthcare industry needs some good competition. Doctors here make too much money.

I don't understand why patients think their doctors are the ones who are trying to extort them. Could someone answer this for me?

The medical profession is definitely no longer a place to make money. Doctors are paid per procedure, not by the patient, but by HMO's. And the HMO's have decided that the money doctors get does not depend on how much time they spend with the patient, or the difficulty of the procedure, it's simply what the procedure's name is.

Dentists, who fix your teeth and don't significantly improve the quality of your life like a doctor, now get paid more than doctors. That is unbelievable to me.

Doctors have about 0 control over the costs of procedures.

You should turn your anger towards the HMO's and our politicians who protect them. It's too bad doctors are the ones who are suffering because of some corporate profit nonsense.

I believe doctors as a whole are extorting the country by making it so hard to become a doctor. Too few doctors mean we need to pay the reamining ones a lot to get their services. It's an artificial monopoly, like with lawyers. Don't get me wrong, I don't think they're evil or anything, just that they are getting away with too much protectionism.
 

totalcommand

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2004
2,487
0
0
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: totalcommand
Originally posted by: bamacre
Maybe our healthcare industry needs some good competition. Doctors here make too much money.

I don't understand why patients think their doctors are the ones who are trying to extort them. Could someone answer this for me?

The medical profession is definitely no longer a place to make money. Doctors are paid per procedure, not by the patient, but by HMO's. And the HMO's have decided that the money doctors get does not depend on how much time they spend with the patient, or the difficulty of the procedure, it's simply what the procedure's name is.

Dentists, who fix your teeth and don't significantly improve the quality of your life like a doctor, now get paid more than doctors. That is unbelievable to me.

Doctors have about 0 control over the costs of procedures.

You should turn your anger towards the HMO's and our politicians who protect them. It's too bad doctors are the ones who are suffering because of some corporate profit nonsense.

I believe doctors as a whole are extorting the country by making it so hard to become a doctor. Too few doctors mean we need to pay the reamining ones a lot to get their services. It's an artificial monopoly, like with lawyers. Don't get me wrong, I don't think they're evil or anything, just that they are getting away with too much protectionism.

You are not paying the remaining ones. The HMO's are, and the amount they pay doctors over the years has decreased, not increased. HMO's are getting richer, while patients and doctors get poorer.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Originally posted by: totalcommand
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: totalcommand
Originally posted by: bamacre
Maybe our healthcare industry needs some good competition. Doctors here make too much money.

I don't understand why patients think their doctors are the ones who are trying to extort them. Could someone answer this for me?

The medical profession is definitely no longer a place to make money. Doctors are paid per procedure, not by the patient, but by HMO's. And the HMO's have decided that the money doctors get does not depend on how much time they spend with the patient, or the difficulty of the procedure, it's simply what the procedure's name is.

Dentists, who fix your teeth and don't significantly improve the quality of your life like a doctor, now get paid more than doctors. That is unbelievable to me.

Doctors have about 0 control over the costs of procedures.

You should turn your anger towards the HMO's and our politicians who protect them. It's too bad doctors are the ones who are suffering because of some corporate profit nonsense.

I believe doctors as a whole are extorting the country by making it so hard to become a doctor. Too few doctors mean we need to pay the reamining ones a lot to get their services. It's an artificial monopoly, like with lawyers. Don't get me wrong, I don't think they're evil or anything, just that they are getting away with too much protectionism.

You are not paying the remaining ones. The HMO's are, and the amount they pay doctors over the years has decreased, not increased. HMO's are getting richer, while patients and doctors get poorer.

And who pays the HMOs? It's basic economics. If supply is low and demand is high, prices go high. There is no reason we shouldn't have more doctors in this country. One symptom is the unecessary importation of foreign doctors.
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: Infohawk
I believe doctors as a whole are extorting the country by making it so hard to become a doctor. Too few doctors mean we need to pay the reamining ones a lot to get their services. It's an artificial monopoly, like with lawyers. Don't get me wrong, I don't think they're evil or anything, just that they are getting away with too much protectionism.

The US doesn't have socialized medicine like the rest of the civilized world, I'd hazard a guess that is why health care involves such high out of pocket costs in the US.
 

totalcommand

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2004
2,487
0
0
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: totalcommand
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: totalcommand
Originally posted by: bamacre
Maybe our healthcare industry needs some good competition. Doctors here make too much money.

I don't understand why patients think their doctors are the ones who are trying to extort them. Could someone answer this for me?

The medical profession is definitely no longer a place to make money. Doctors are paid per procedure, not by the patient, but by HMO's. And the HMO's have decided that the money doctors get does not depend on how much time they spend with the patient, or the difficulty of the procedure, it's simply what the procedure's name is.

Dentists, who fix your teeth and don't significantly improve the quality of your life like a doctor, now get paid more than doctors. That is unbelievable to me.

Doctors have about 0 control over the costs of procedures.

You should turn your anger towards the HMO's and our politicians who protect them. It's too bad doctors are the ones who are suffering because of some corporate profit nonsense.

I believe doctors as a whole are extorting the country by making it so hard to become a doctor. Too few doctors mean we need to pay the reamining ones a lot to get their services. It's an artificial monopoly, like with lawyers. Don't get me wrong, I don't think they're evil or anything, just that they are getting away with too much protectionism.

You are not paying the remaining ones. The HMO's are, and the amount they pay doctors over the years has decreased, not increased. HMO's are getting richer, while patients and doctors get poorer.

And who pays the HMOs? It's basic economics. If supply is low and demand is high, prices go high. There is no reason we shouldn't have more doctors in this country. One symptom is the unecessary importation of foreign doctors.

Read bamacre's post.

"Doctors here make too much money."

It's a myth. HMO's are making too much money off the high demand for doctors. Doctor income has decreased over the years, even while demand for doctors have increased.

Why do people hate doctors, when it is the HMOs who are extorting the patients and the doctors?

Do you think people are going to want to become doctors when people are starting to hate them for problems they haven't caused??? Respect for the medical profession has dropped hugely over the past 20 years. That is the real reason there are not enough doctors.

edit - spelling
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: Infohawk
I believe doctors as a whole are extorting the country by making it so hard to become a doctor. Too few doctors mean we need to pay the reamining ones a lot to get their services. It's an artificial monopoly, like with lawyers. Don't get me wrong, I don't think they're evil or anything, just that they are getting away with too much protectionism.

The US doesn't have socialized medicine like the rest of the civilized world, I'd hazard a guess that is why health care involves such high out of pocket costs in the US.

There are multiple factors. Too few doctors is also one of them.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
I've spoken to a few doctors, because I at one point considered becoming a doctor, but every single one said its a great profession, but the main problem is the HMO and how they are always rushed to get quotas filled so they can look at a person as a "person", just a "number" (like that article mentioned....) so they never get to listen to patients, instead they are just rushing through each patient. He said the average doctor waits less than ten seconds before interuppting the patients "background story" of what is wrong and getting straight to the point. Then another drag on doctors is when they have to diagnose the same thing EVERY time, that such detailed repetition really fatigues you...
Some professions I understand turning it into assembly line style because the efficiency goes up drastically...but the health care industry is NOT a field that should do that because yeah you "pump more people through", but at the cost of too many things...

I really think that major changes should be made in the medical and pharmaceutical field, but because their lobby groups exert humungeous amount of influence and continously buy our politicians...we are helping accelerate our own demise to line HMO's, etc. 's bottom line with a few more dollars

edit: Infohawk...its not the doctors~ it is those who control the doctors...Being a doctor should be an insanely difficult task regardless of whether you are going to be a Pediatriction or a Radiologist~ that is why you get paid so much. But the money that you pay goes largely to HMOs, not the doctor
 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
Originally posted by: totalcommand
Originally posted by: bamacre
Maybe our healthcare industry needs some good competition. Doctors here make too much money.

I don't understand why patients think their doctors are the ones who are trying to extort them. Could someone answer this for me?

The medical profession is definitely no longer a place to make money. Doctors are paid per procedure, not by the patient, but by HMO's. And the HMO's have decided that the money doctors get does not depend on how much time they spend with the patient, or the difficulty of the procedure, it's simply what the procedure's name is. So, rather than relying on a salary-type income, doctors have to rely on how many procedures they set up, creating a partial conflict of interest.

Dentists, who fix your teeth and don't significantly improve the quality of your life like a doctor, now get paid more than doctors. That is unbelievable to me.

Doctors have about 0 control over the costs of procedures.

You should turn your anger towards the HMO's and our politicians who protect them. It's too bad doctors are the ones who are suffering because of some corporate profit nonsense.


And who comprises the board of directors of insurance companies and hospitals? Who controls the hiring of the admin staffing?

Here is a little missive I just got Friday from a surgery I had a year ago. The surgery was for a broken neck and that occurred due to negligence on the part of the management of the Embassy in Kiev - no question - no argument. All that GWU has to do is to send the bills to the correct place and they get paid. After personally paying all co-pays as they occurred and after the Department and my Insurance company paying more than 120K to the various billing agents (and there are a lot), they are still threatening me for a hundred bucks that I never recieved a bill for. Here is the letter, retyped with all of the same punctuation used in the original:


QUOTE

FOCUSED RECOVERY SOLUTIONS INC

9701 METROPOLITAN CRT STE B
RICHMOND VA 23236-3662

Phone: 1-804-421-4090


April 18, 2005

Balance: $100.00
Client: GEORGE WASH. UNIV. HOSP
MY NAME Patient: MY NAME again
Account #: 00012345678
XXXX DRIVE FRS#: 1141821
CITY STATE ZIP Disc Date: 4/04/2004

Dear MY NAME

This is a DEMAND for your OUTSTANDING ACCOUNT placed with our office for collection by our client referenced above.

We want there to be absolutely no room for doubt as to your intentions inh this matter. So, we are giving you the opportunity to clear your obligation to our client and avoid any further collection action on your account by sending PAYMENT IN FULL.

Make your check or money order payable for the full balance and return it to us in the envelope provided. If you would like to pay by credit card call the phone number listed below for assistance.

To insure proper posting please include your account number with your payment.

NOTICE: THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO COLLECT A DEBT BY A DEBT
COLLECTION AGENCY AND ANY INFORMATION OBTAINED WILL BE USED FOR THAT PURPOSE. NC Permit #4060.


TINA CULLIGAN Client: GEORGE WASH. UNIV. HOSP
COLLECTION SPECIALIST
8:30 AM - 8:00 PM; MON-THURS
FRI 8:30AM - 5PM (804)327-7423


Unless you notify this office within thirty (30) days after receiving this notice
that you dispute the validity of the debt or any portion thereof, this office
will assume that claim is valid. If you notify this office within thirty (30) days of receipt
of this notice, this office will obtain verification or debt or obtain a copy of the judgement
and will mail you a copy of such judgement or verification. If you request this in
writing within thirty (30) days of this notice, this office will provide you with the name
and address of the original creditor if different from the current creditor.
090*000861*031"

END QUOTE


With hospitals resorting to stuff like this, what is there to like?

 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
Originally posted by: Infohawk
I don't care if there's competition between doctors, but I'm sick of US tax dollars training foreigners.

You really hate foreigners and minorities, huh?
 

totalcommand

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2004
2,487
0
0
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: totalcommand
Originally posted by: bamacre
Maybe our healthcare industry needs some good competition. Doctors here make too much money.

I don't understand why patients think their doctors are the ones who are trying to extort them. Could someone answer this for me?

The medical profession is definitely no longer a place to make money. Doctors are paid per procedure, not by the patient, but by HMO's. And the HMO's have decided that the money doctors get does not depend on how much time they spend with the patient, or the difficulty of the procedure, it's simply what the procedure's name is. So, rather than relying on a salary-type income, doctors have to rely on how many procedures they set up, creating a partial conflict of interest.

Dentists, who fix your teeth and don't significantly improve the quality of your life like a doctor, now get paid more than doctors. That is unbelievable to me.

Doctors have about 0 control over the costs of procedures.

You should turn your anger towards the HMO's and our politicians who protect them. It's too bad doctors are the ones who are suffering because of some corporate profit nonsense.


And who comprises the board of directors of insurance companies and hospitals? Who controls the hiring of the admin staffing?

Here is a little missive I just got Friday from a surgery I had a year ago. The surgery was for a broken neck and that occurred due to negligence on the part of the management of the Embassy in Kiev - no question - no argument. All that GWU has to do is to send the bills to the correct place and they get paid. After personally paying all co-pays as they occurred and after the Department and my Insurance company paying more than 120K to the various billing agents (and there are a lot), they are still threatening me for a hundred bucks that I never recieved a bill for. Here is the letter, retyped with all of the same punctuation used in the original:


QUOTE

FOCUSED RECOVERY SOLUTIONS INC

9701 METROPOLITAN CRT STE B
RICHMOND VA 23236-3662

Phone: 1-804-421-4090


April 18, 2005

Balance: $100.00
Client: GEORGE WASH. UNIV. HOSP
MY NAME Patient: MY NAME again
Account #: 00012345678
XXXX DRIVE FRS#: 1141821
CITY STATE ZIP Disc Date: 4/04/2004

Dear MY NAME

This is a DEMAND for your OUTSTANDING ACCOUNT placed with our office for collection by our client referenced above.

We want there to be absolutely no room for doubt as to your intentions inh this matter. So, we are giving you the opportunity to clear your obligation to our client and avoid any further collection action on your account by sending PAYMENT IN FULL.

Make your check or money order payable for the full balance and return it to us in the envelope provided. If you would like to pay by credit card call the phone number listed below for assistance.

To insure proper posting please include your account number with your payment.

NOTICE: THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO COLLECT A DEBT BY A DEBT
COLLECTION AGENCY AND ANY INFORMATION OBTAINED WILL BE USED FOR THAT PURPOSE. NC Permit #4060.


TINA CULLIGAN Client: GEORGE WASH. UNIV. HOSP
COLLECTION SPECIALIST
8:30 AM - 8:00 PM; MON-THURS
FRI 8:30AM - 5PM (804)327-7423


Unless you notify this office within thirty (30) days after receiving this notice
that you dispute the validity of the debt or any portion thereof, this office
will assume that claim is valid. If you notify this office within thirty (30) days of receipt
of this notice, this office will obtain verification or debt or obtain a copy of the judgement
and will mail you a copy of such judgement or verification. If you request this in
writing within thirty (30) days of this notice, this office will provide you with the name
and address of the original creditor if different from the current creditor.
090*000861*031"

END QUOTE


With hospitals resorting to stuff like this, what is there to like?

Condor:

Most of the people on the Board of Directors of a hospital are NOT doctors. They are lawyers, accountants, RICH PEOPLE, etc. (Like Barbara Bush, who is on the board at the famous Mayo Clinic). Usually there is just one or two doctors, who have no say because they are outnumbered.

Your post just demonstrates my opinion that doctors are blamed for all problems related to health care, when the doctors themselves are being held hostage by oppressive HMOs and thrifty hospital boards. This is the reason why the medical profession is losing prestige, and less people are wanting to become doctors.

Already, we have NP's (nurses) and CPAs (assistants) replacing the duties that are normally performed by doctors. Why? Because there are not enough doctors, and NPs and CPAs are cheaper FOR THE HMO.
 
Aug 14, 2001
11,061
0
0
Originally posted by: Infohawk
I don't care if there's competition between doctors, but I'm sick of US tax dollars training foreigners.

I'm fine with that, especially since most of them stay in the US and become Americans. If you can't handle the competition, then you're mediocre.

We have too many lazy kids here who want to play video games all day and do nothing with their lives.

I wish that we could deport parts of our population.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: Infohawk
I don't care if there's competition between doctors, but I'm sick of US tax dollars training foreigners.

You really hate foreigners and minorities, huh?

Not when they get a free ride while natural born citizens cannot afford to get the education.

How do they get a free ride?
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
If you can't handle the competition, then you're mediocre.
Who is "you"? Infohawk? Americans? American med students?

We have too many lazy kids here who want to play video games all day and do nothing with their lives.
First of all, what is "too many" and please provide evidence. Even if it were true, we live in a free society. If some people want to be lazy, big woop. There are plenty of kids who want to become doctors.

I wish that we could deport parts of our population.
:roll:
 
Aug 14, 2001
11,061
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Originally posted by: Infohawk
Who is "you"? Infohawk? Americans? American med students?

Anyone in our society that can't 'cut' it. If you want a mediocre surgeon operating on you then go try to get an operation in an alley. I want the best minds, not some Pokemon playing twerp.

First of all, what is "too many" and please provide evidence. Even if it were true, we live in a free society. If some people want to be lazy, big woop. There are plenty of kids who want to become doctors.

Yes, we live in a free society that accepts the best minds from all over the world. If you can't cut it, then you remain mediocre. I suppose you don't want these people to become Americans because then you will have more competition, but you should step up and refuse mediocrity. Otherwise the rest of us are going to leave you behind.

If I had it my way, you may very well be one of the deported ones. ;)
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
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Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Anyone in our society that can't 'cut' it. If you want a mediocre surgeon operating on you then go try to get an operation in an alley. I want the best minds, not some Pokemon playing twerp.
Yes, because we all know there are a lot of Pokemon-playing twerps that pass the board exams. If you want foreign doctors that are great, YOU can pay for them and their education. No reason to take it out of Americans' pockets. Alternatively, you can fly to wherever in the wolrd the awesome doctors are.

First of all, what is "too many" and please provide evidence. Even if it were true, we live in a free society. If some people want to be lazy, big woop. There are plenty of kids who want to become doctors.

Funny how you didn't provide evidence or quantify "too many." Sounds like fuzzy thinking and ranting on your part.

If I had it my way, you may very well be one of the deported ones. ;)
I understand you are frustrated. Your reasoning is not very sophisticated. Keep working on it. :)

 

athithi

Golden Member
Mar 5, 2002
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Originally posted by: Infohawk
I don't care if there's competition between doctors, but I'm sick of US tax dollars training foreigners.

Do you like the tax dollars that foreigners like me pay towards supporting bums on the street (and a war which I have nothing to do with)? Shut the gates on them damn foreigners because the year 2005 is the epitome of American civilization by which time all immigrants entitled to migrate to the U.S should have already done so, right? Oh wait, I forgot, you are probably 1 trillionth Native American so you are the true son of the soil :roll: