India chooses European Jets over USA's F-16, F-18 and Russia's MIG - 35.

[cubby1223]

I was waiting for an idiotic 'blame Obama' post.

While I'm waiting for the usual suspects to accuse India of hidden bigoted racism. Code words have been used!

 

[sandorski]

While I'm waiting for the usual suspects to accuse India of hidden bigoted racism. Code words have been used!

I'm waiting for rants about Europeans, their Racism, Genocide, Monarchs, and other such niceties.

 

[hal2kilo]

I guess the bag wasn't filled with enough Benjamins when the deal went down.

 

[bfdd]

damn we spent all that money trying to secure a deal too. oh well ;| sucks for us. we should make better and cheaper weapons the rest of the world wants.

 

[Craig234]

Actually the jets also fly around doing random stuff. If flying around is nothing, then humans never do anything ever.

So, in your opinion America's products suck and the fact that Obama can't get a deal done doesn't reflect on him? (I'll bet if they purchased from us you'd be giving all credit to Obama and not our planes etc)

No, I might give him credit for doing a good sales job, but the credit would go mainly to the products. You not only get the main issue wrong, but you get the imaginary one wrong.

What's more actually the case so often in these things is what I'd call illegitimate incentives - pressures for things like other carrots and sticks, which can potentially get pretty extreme, such as 'we'll look the other way when you use excessive violence to crack down on some people you don't like if you buy our products'.

Who knows, maybe it's to Obama's credit that he refused to do something wrong to get the deal, and losing it reflects positively on him.

That WOULD be something to give him credit for, not his 'sales'.

 

[yllus]

India does not yet trust the U.S. - there's no real history yet for that to occur. This was not a surprise.

 

[busydude]

damn we spent all that money trying to secure a deal too. oh well ;| sucks for us. we should make better and cheaper weapons the rest of the world wants.

Actually, F - 18's and F - 16's were among the cheapest jets that were picked.. OTOH, the European Jets are the most expensive. One of the main reason for selecting these jets maybe due to this "offset" clause:

As India crawls closer to purchasing 126 combat jets worth $11 billion to modernize its aging fleet, several Indian companies are waiting in the wings to reap windfall gains, with state-owned Hindustan Aeronautical Ltd (HAL)(not neckbeard) expected to get the lion’s share — worth at least $5 billion.


Indian defense procurement regulations, commonly referred to as ‘offset clause’, stipulates that products/ components/ services worth at least 50% of the value of the contract should be procured from Indian companies.


Nidhi Goyal, director, Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu India, said that HAL stands to get a least half of the revenues expected to be accrued to Indian players.
“108 of these jets would be assembled at the HAL facility,” Goyal said. “So the company should get at least 50% of the total offset benefits.”
HAL could not be reached for a comment.


To comply with offset clause requirements, the European firms have already either set up joint ventures with Indian companies or entered into memorandum of understanding with firms they hope to work with once the contract is awarded, which is expected to be towards the end of the current fiscal.

http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report_india-inc-awaits-6bn-offset-from-jet-deal_1537235

 

[bfdd]

busydude, they obviously weren't cheap enough then.

 

[Jhhnn]

India does not yet trust the U.S. - there's no real history yet for that to occur. This was not a surprise.

Yep. India probably views Europe as a more reliable & less conditional provider of things like spare parts, which are highly proprietary.

 

[Infohawk]

I'm waiting for rants about Europeans, their Racism, Genocide, Monarchs, and other such niceties.

Yeah not sure what cubby is talking about. I haven't really seen anyone bash East Indians on this forum. I have seen people like Baasha praise the caste system and accuse posters from other backgrounds of being like monkeys though...

 

[Abwx]

The only thing that can challenge a F-22 is a prototype new Sukhoi that isnt even in production.
.

A F 22 has not a single chance against the oldy MIG 25 interceptor
wich has a radar so powerfull that the F 22 stealth techs are not
stealthy enough to make it indetectable at a 100km range;;
Moreover, the MIG 25 ceiling is so high that it will easily
detect any plane since the F 22 radar eq surface is not optimised
when a radar wave is projected from a upper point, i.e, from
the only military plane that did break the 100K foots ceiling...

Indeed, russian technology has always been better
than US one in this matter..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-25

 

[cwjerome]

This is a bummer for American companies...

 

[cwjerome]

A F 22 has not a single chance against the oldy MIG 25 interceptor
wich has a radar so powerfull that the F 22 stealth techs are not
stealthy enough to make it indetectable at a 100km range;;
Moreover, the MIG 25 ceiling is so high that it will easily
detect any plane since the F 22 radar eq surface is not optimised
when a radar wave is projected from a upper point, i.e, from
the only military plane that did break the 100K foots ceiling...

Indeed, russian technology has always been better
than US one in this matter..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-25

lol at this post

 

[yllus]

A F 22 has not a single chance against the oldy MIG 25 interceptor
wich has a radar so powerfull that the F 22 stealth techs are not
stealthy enough to make it indetectable at a 100km range;;
Moreover, the MIG 25 ceiling is so high that it will easily
detect any plane since the F 22 radar eq surface is not optimised
when a radar wave is projected from a upper point, i.e, from
the only military plane that did break the 100K foots ceiling...

Indeed, russian technology has always been better
than US one in this matter..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-25

No.

 

[wuliheron]

Actually, F - 18's and F - 16's were among the cheapest jets that were picked.. OTOH, the European Jets are the most expensive. One of the main reason for selecting these jets maybe due to this "offset" clause:

That makes sense. India is pretty socialist and very protective of their of their own industries and jobs.

 

[CPA]

I think an interesting question is, how can we have peace with a minimal amount of military?

We can all hold hands and sing kumbia.

 

[Craig234]

We can all hold hands and sing kumbia.

Mindless right-wing idiocy. With idiots like this, we'll have needless wars.

 

[Red Dawn]

We can all hold hands and sing kumbia.

Or go to Swinger Parties.

 

[Andres3605]

This selection had more to do with end user agreement, technology exchange for local manufacturing of parts and munitions, integrating other local produced bombs, sharing technical info and other very important details (like the fact Pakistan also uses US made planes) than the planes themselves.

 

[PieIsAwesome]

A F 22 has not a single chance against the oldy MIG 25 interceptor
wich has a radar so powerfull that the F 22 stealth techs are not
stealthy enough to make it indetectable at a 100km range;;
Moreover, the MIG 25 ceiling is so high that it will easily
detect any plane since the F 22 radar eq surface is not optimised
when a radar wave is projected from a upper point, i.e, from
the only military plane that did break the 100K foots ceiling...

Indeed, russian technology has always been better
than US one in this matter..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-25

The 70's want their "OMG big bad scary Foxbat!!1" back.

Not too surprising that the U.S. aircraft were dropped considering they are older generation aircraft.

 

[tvarad]

The US fighters never stood a chance. Though we can have a debate over capabilities, they were fielding '70s technology versus the next generation when it comes to the Rafale and Typhoon. The F-35, were it available and had proven itself, would have stood a better chance.

Other than the prestige factor, I doubt much was lost. The U.S. should let this go and concentrate on the non-glamorous side of military sales. They've already scored a win with the C-130. And an India buy of the C-17, which is on the cards, is much more important because it will keep the line open for a few more years and, who knows, trigger more sales because it has no direct competitor.

 

[JEDIYoda]

A F 22 has not a single chance against the oldy MIG 25 interceptor
wich has a radar so powerfull that the F 22 stealth techs are not
stealthy enough to make it indetectable at a 100km range;;
Moreover, the MIG 25 ceiling is so high that it will easily
detect any plane since the F 22 radar eq surface is not optimised
when a radar wave is projected from a upper point, i.e, from
the only military plane that did break the 100K foots ceiling...

Indeed, russian technology has always been better
than US one in this matter..


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-25

You must always remember that wikipedia can be edited People of all ages, cultures and backgrounds can add or edit article prose, references, images and other media

 

[Karl Agathon]

I know production of the F22 stopped (from what ive read) because it was too expensive to produce and keep up, but I dont think production should have stopped. I know there are currently over 100 in existence (not sure of the exact number) Still though, many might be needed when the Red Dragon decides to attack the United States.

 

[Nebor]

Mindless right-wing idiocy. With idiots like this, we'll have needless wars.

We will? Sweet, I was worried I might be in for a few boring years...

 

[lothar]

A F 22 has not a single chance against the oldy MIG 25 interceptor
wich has a radar so powerfull that the F 22 stealth techs are not
stealthy enough to make it indetectable at a 100km range;;
Moreover, the MIG 25 ceiling is so high that it will easily
detect any plane since the F 22 radar eq surface is not optimised
when a radar wave is projected from a upper point, i.e, from
the only military plane that did break the 100K foots ceiling...

Indeed, russian technology has always been better
than US one in this matter..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-25

Your entire assumptions are moronic.