India+China+Russia have more potential IT workers than we have people. -Cnet

ReiAyanami

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2002
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http://news.com.com/2100-7341_3-5094682.html?tag=nefd_top

India, China and Russia alone now have somewhere between 250 million and 500 million highly educated workers between them, Barrett estimated, surpassing not just the population of California, but that of the entire United States.

where you can hire 6 or 12 foreigners for the price of 1 IT worker here. as they have more IT workers than we have people, this is not something you can even come close to simply legislating out of existence.

in other news, our college costs have risen 900% times the rate of inflation nationwide (9.8% rise compared to about 1% inflation rate). the fastest it has ever. hey is that a new faculty parking lot full of mecedes?
 

TommyVercetti

Diamond Member
Jan 4, 2003
7,623
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Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
hey is that a new faculty parking lot full of mecedes?

That is Hardly ever the case. I have never better cars in the student parking lots than the faculty lots. More money for the school doesn't equal more money for the teachers.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,489
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I can tell you...when it comes to cheap foreign workers, you get what you pay for...

Of course, often with the 22 year vested pensioned set in his ways veteran...you aren't getting near what you pay for...

Do they offset? ;)

 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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This should be a wakeup call to those majoring in CS right now here... if the dotcom bust was'nt enough already...Learn Hindi.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
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Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
http://news.com.com/2100-7341_3-5094682.html?tag=nefd_top

India, China and Russia alone now have somewhere between 250 million and 500 million highly educated workers between them, Barrett estimated, surpassing not just the population of California, but that of the entire United States.

where you can hire 6 or 12 foreigners for the price of 1 IT worker here. as they have more IT workers than we have people, this is not something you can even come close to simply legislating out of existence.

in other news, our college costs have risen 900% times the rate of inflation nationwide (9.8% rise compared to about 1% inflation rate). the fastest it has ever. hey is that a new faculty parking lot full of mecedes?

You think they are only going to work on export goods? or do you think they will need IT goods for their own country?
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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America might be in trouble....or not ...This is the short and sweet..But they forget as usual our military nudge we can give to global security....



The Consumer, First Source of Dynamism, Piles on Debt to Sustain World Growth
By Eric Leser
Le Monde

Monday 20 October 2003

For three years, while companies and Wall Street recovered from the Internet bubble?s explosion and the many excesses of the nineteen nineties, the American consumer has kept his country?s economy going by main might. The consumer has allowed that economy to withstand the most violent shocks in half a century. The September 11 attacks, repeated financial scandals, the stock market collapse, and the war in Iraq provide no justification for American households? faith in the future. And it is their intact appetite today that in large part explains the recovery.

American consumption is so significant; all the world?s economies can congratulate themselves on it. It represents a little less than 70 % of United States? Gross National Product and 20% of world economic activity.

Above all, it has been the main source of economic dynamism for several years. Europe in general and France in particular count on American recovery alone to resume their growth. The great Asian exporters, Japan, South Korea, and especially China, have not stopped devaluing their currencies against the dollar for years in order to continue their massive exports to the United States. China?s trade surplus of over 100 billion dollars finances its development into ?the factory of the planet? and Japan sees US exports as the only way out of depression.

NECESSARY DROP IN THE DOLLAR

Today no one can allow the American consumer to falter. The Federal Reserve gives him the means to continue to pile on debt cheaply by bringing the cost of money back to its lowest level in forty-two years and the White House has increased his purchasing power (especially for the wealthier) with massive tax reductions. As for international investors, they allow the machine to continue to function by bringing their capital to the United States to balance the ever growing trade deficit and the great weakness in domestic savings. The successive interest rate reductions of the last three years have not provided an opportunity for Americans to reduce their debt, but to spend more. They?ve been incited to do so by, among others, car manufacturers which offer loans at zero interest. Financial establishments multiply tricks and montages to reduce debt burdens or shamelessly propose credit cards secured by a principal residence, to, as one ad emphasizes, ?secure daily expenses painlessly.?

There are now more cars registered in the United States than there are drivers? licensees.

This situation cannot last. The world economy depends on an American consumer whose debt never stops mounting. This perverse system feeds United States? deficits and outsize needs for foreign capital. American households can?t simultaneously spend more than they earn and save. On average debt represents 115 % of their disposable income, compared to 55 %, for example, in France. Debt service equals 14 % of income, a level that hasn?t taken off, thanks to low interest rates and continual mortgage renegotiation. It?s difficult to imagine that household debt could increase still more and ?yet, the only way for the consumer to continue to dope the economy consists of accumulating new debts,? underlines Merrill Lynch economist Dave Rosenberg. ?If a new bubble exists today, it has a name: debt,? he adds.

Another danger, runaway American external deficits.

The balance of payments deficit (foreign trade and capital) should greatly exceed its record 2002 level of 480 billion dollars. Some experts consider that it could approach 600 billion dollars. That means that every day the United States have to ?import? 1.6 billion dollars of foreign capital. Aware of the problem, industrial countries timidly search for a remedy. They gave tacit agreement in September during the G7 in Dubai to pursuit of dollar devaluation, the only way to begin to rebalance American external trade accounts by favoring local businesses.

"The world economy cannot succeed if everyone concentrates on exports only. There?s a growing understanding today among big economies that they need to concentrate on demand and put reforms in place that allow their domestic markets to drive growth,? specifies John Snow, US Treasury Secretary. The only weapon to compel Europe and Asia to pep up their internal demand is to let the greenback slide. However, a rapid dollar drop could interrupt investment by Japanese and Chinese- the principal buyers of US Treasury obligations. If they were to turn away from these securities, that would mean much higher long term interest rates in the United States and a serious threat to American consumption and world economic growth.

The rebalancing of the world economy must therefore be progressive, but is nonetheless an absolute necessity. Asia, and, even more, Europe must breathe some life into their consumption, i.e., above all, make their social elevators work.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,352
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Hey, why are you guys complaining. I mean, they can do the job and willingly for cheaper... they are the better employee. ;)
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
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Originally posted by: her209
Hey, why are you guys complaining. I mean, they can do the job and willingly for cheaper... they are the better employee. ;)

They also dont have a grasp of our culture, language, work in a different time zone and cant make housecalls in a timely fashion.
 

ReiAyanami

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2002
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More money for the school doesn't equal more money for the teachers.

the teachers do get paid plenty thanks to their union. and thanks to a shortage in teachers (hence resulting in far too many math an engineering classes being tought by those who do not speak english, 66% of my classes this quarter) but i was referring to the Faculty A parking lot for administrators. UCSD: where the tuition is only hiked 30% every other quarter...
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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Originally posted by: her209
Hey, why are you guys complaining. I mean, they can do the job and willingly for cheaper... they are the better employee. ;)

You bring up a very interesting point. Of course this makes sense and seems the most fair and prudent way to conduct a transaction. However, You neglect the fact Asia has a much lower standard of living than the west, an unlimited supply of labor, and no enviromental contraints. In order to compete on the same level we as americans must lower our expectations in addition to our standard of living. I'm selfish how about you? Are you willing to live in a grass hut for pennies making soccer balls/computer chips breathing toxic chemicals all day to compete? We might have to because they are willing to.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
More money for the school doesn't equal more money for the teachers.

the teachers do get paid plenty thanks to their union. and thanks to a shortage in teachers (hence resulting in far too many math an engineering classes being tought by those who do not speak english, 66% of my classes this quarter) but i was referring to the Faculty A parking lot for administrators. UCSD: where the tuition is only hiked 30% every other quarter...

What is tutition now? When i went to CPSLO in the early 90s it was free but for fees(about $200) !!! Now i hear it's over 1000 a quarter!! UCSD is semester right but I bet about the same increase...
 

ReiAyanami

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2002
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we still lead in a number of fields even if we lose the ol' hardrives and chips:

military technology: go JSF!! (only $250 billion)
medical technology: we make nearly all new blockbuster drugs (this is also why we have the highest healtcare costs)

quantum tech: who knows...

DNA/genetic research: sure we've decoded the genome and will probably lead this for a while, but other countries with laxer laws will take over this field

solar/energy tech? nope the euro's lead that one, especially siemens. GB even is putting up $140 million in windmills. to top it off Japan leads hydro fuel cell research, and has the most efficient electric hybrids, next gen at 80MPG
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
we still lead in a number of fields even if we lose the ol' hardrives and chips:

military technology: go JSF!! (only $250 billion)
medical technology: we make nearly all new blockbuster drugs (this is also why we have the highest healtcare costs)

quantum tech: who knows...

DNA/genetic research: sure we've decoded the genome and will probably lead this for a while, but other countries with laxer laws will take over this field

solar/energy tech? nope the euro's lead that one, especially siemens. GB even is putting up $140 million in windmills. to top it off Japan leads hydro fuel cell research, and has the most efficient electric hybrids, next gen at 80MPG

R&D follows manufacturing not the other way around. If we're not selling profitable goodies to people we have no money to improve and invent new goodies. This is why every new invention nowerdays in display technology comes from NEC's and Sonys labs not RCA.
 

djNickb

Senior member
Oct 16, 2003
529
0
0
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: her209
Hey, why are you guys complaining. I mean, they can do the job and willingly for cheaper... they are the better employee. ;)

You bring up a very interesting point. Of course this makes sense and seems the most fair and prudent way to conduct a transaction. However, You neglect the fact Asia has a much lower standard of living than the west, an unlimited supply of labor, and no enviromental contraints. In order to compete on the same level we as americans must lower our expectations in addition to our standard of living. I'm selfish how about you? Are you willing to live in a grass hut for pennies making soccer balls/computer chips breathing toxic chemicals all day to compete? We might have to because they are willing to.

To me this seems all the more reason to enact some form of regulation/restriction on all of these 'American Companies' that are moving everything but the corporate HQs overseas.

 

tec699

Banned
Dec 19, 2002
6,440
0
0
Originally posted by: djNickb
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: her209
Hey, why are you guys complaining. I mean, they can do the job and willingly for cheaper... they are the better employee. ;)

You bring up a very interesting point. Of course this makes sense and seems the most fair and prudent way to conduct a transaction. However, You neglect the fact Asia has a much lower standard of living than the west, an unlimited supply of labor, and no enviromental contraints. In order to compete on the same level we as americans must lower our expectations in addition to our standard of living. I'm selfish how about you? Are you willing to live in a grass hut for pennies making soccer balls/computer chips breathing toxic chemicals all day to compete? We might have to because they are willing to.

To me this seems all the more reason to enact some form of regulation/restriction on all of these 'American Companies' that are moving everything but the corporate HQs overseas.


Yea right. Big buisness owns congress. Congress wouldn't dare to do anything if they wnat to recieve that special payment in the green room.

*wink, wink*
:disgust:
 

djNickb

Senior member
Oct 16, 2003
529
0
0
Originally posted by: tec699
Originally posted by: djNickb
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: her209
Hey, why are you guys complaining. I mean, they can do the job and willingly for cheaper... they are the better employee. ;)

You bring up a very interesting point. Of course this makes sense and seems the most fair and prudent way to conduct a transaction. However, You neglect the fact Asia has a much lower standard of living than the west, an unlimited supply of labor, and no enviromental contraints. In order to compete on the same level we as americans must lower our expectations in addition to our standard of living. I'm selfish how about you? Are you willing to live in a grass hut for pennies making soccer balls/computer chips breathing toxic chemicals all day to compete? We might have to because they are willing to.

To me this seems all the more reason to enact some form of regulation/restriction on all of these 'American Companies' that are moving everything but the corporate HQs overseas.


Yea right. Big buisness owns congress. Congress wouldn't dare to do anything if they wnat to recieve that special payment in the green room.

*wink, wink*
:disgust:


Also a good point -- this is just my perspective as someone who works in the IT industry who is watching the floor disppear, and who like it or not may end up living in a grass hut!
:frown:
 

roboninja

Senior member
Dec 7, 2000
268
0
0
It is coming to an end, boys. Bush and his buddies are busy taking all the money that's left after the past 35+ years of this "globalization", and are ready to leave us to drown in our own debt. It is not looking good (unless you re in the upper class).