Incredibly Interesting Thread! Look here!

[GL]

Elita1,

I don't believe God can predispose someone towards evil. I believe he can only predispose people towards good and he does that at varying degrees. It is the degrees to which people are predisposed to certain things that make them more vulnerable to evil.

BTW, I'm not offended by anything you've said - constructive dialogue isn't offensive, it's the flames that are but I haven't seen any as of yet. I certainly understand the Catholic Church's view on things. I don't share their view on all things. They change their view as well. As recently as a few years ago, the Catholic Church would not deny the creation story as it is laid out in the Bible. Then they released a statement by the pope accepting evolution theory and the role God had in it. I'm certain that within my lifetime, that homosexuality will be not only be tolerated but accepted by mainstream Christian Churches. My strong viewpoint from this probably comes from the fact I'm from Toronto - home to the second largest population of openly gay people in North America, if not the world. It's slowly but surely being accepted - not just tolerated and the gay pride parade is attended by a mayor with an 80% approval rating. So the issues are out in the open and it definitely changed by original viewpoint which was that of the Catholic Church - that the people weren't bad but their actions were. Once I realized that homosexuality was more than an act, I couldn't condemn it.

edit
For those that don't understand my beliefs about the degrees of disposition, I'll give you an analogy. It is common to label somebody as "smart" or "stupid" based on their intelligence. To be "smart" would be a good predisposition and to be "stupid" would be a bad predisposition. I don't think you can be predisposed towards being "stupid". What I believe, is that you just aren't as predisposed towards "smart" as other people - you have a lack of that predisposed quality. We humans, in our limited capacity have labelled absolute words on something which is really a scale of varying degrees. You can be intelligent. It is impossible to be not intelligent - although this makes sense gramatically. You can only be less intelligent. I believe that God predisposes us more towards some things and less towards other - but that these things are all good because God cannot create bad or evil. What challenges us in life are areas that we aren't as predisposed towards as others. For those that aren't natural born athletes, it becomes much more difficult to reach world-class athlete status - not impossible, but very difficult. Similarly, if you are predisposed with less patience, it might be very difficult to not fight somebody who is getting on your nerves and wasting your time - again, not impossible but difficult. As somebody pointed out, God gives us crosses that only we can handle. These crosses aren't bad things, they are simply a lack of good things. Anyway, I hope this makes sense. I didn't provide the best analogies but hopefully I painted a sufficient picture to at least give you a general idea of what I believe.

-GL

 

[ManSnake]

BORING!!!

I thought this thread is about interesting stuff:|

IT'S BORING, BORING, VERY BORING!!

 

[LadyJessica]

People are not wrong for having predispositions, but acting on them can be considered wrong.

Tell that to someone with Tourette's syndrome. Tell him that it's wrong when he starts swearing in public.

 

[Optimus]

!!!
Tourette's is a medical condition, not a predisposition!

?!

 

[UG]

The bible is the cornerstone of western literature. It is useful for a variety of social ailments.

As the years passed, I graduated to the Encyclopedia Britannica and I shall never go back.

____________________

 

[wolf550e]

well, i am juwish (atheist though), and here in israel the old testiment is something we learn in school, but as history, not as religius law. even the religius ortodox people say the bible shuld not be interpreted as it is, since reality and life have changed since 1300 BC, and all laws should be taken as an idea and judges must rule on panishment, if any. scholars beleive capital punishment was almoust never used even in the old times of the 2nd temple (570BC - 70AD), so this funny stuff is just misinterpritation. the bible is nice as a theory, philosofy, but as a practical guide to life it is outdated.
and i will not go into my personal beleifs about what pegan jesus's folowers did to judaism in the 3d-4th century making it what it is today...

<preparing for flamaing>

 

[Thorn]

azazyel, look at my sig... *cough* ahem *cough*

 

[I'm Typing]

Guys and gals, I just thought that &quot;The West Wing&quot; was a cool tv show.

Really.




The fact that they use it as a vehicle to point out religious hypocrisy is just a plus.

 

[Optimus]

I'm Typing - I like the West Wing too...

but that scene wasn't about religion - it was about those hypocrites who would use religion as a weapon and pick and choose what is absolute and what is not in the Bible.

 

[skywhr]

I have never seen this show

 

[Athanasius]

Hello Thorn,

Sorry, I am not a member of the Orthodox Church. However, I am very sympathetic to many aspects of Orthodox teaching. If I had been exposed to Orthodoxy earlier in my Christian walk, I might have been moved even more in that direction. Who knows? Western Christianity tends to view things in very western, legal terms. It also tends to view everything from the Roman Catholic/Protestant perspectives, with all the attending conflicts between the two.

Most western Christians are truly uninformed about the Orthodox Church. That is tragic. For example, I find Orthodoxy's emphasis on the Image of God (and Redemption's restoration of that Image) to be a first principle of core Christianity. The entire concept of man being created in God's Image is logically antecedent to sin, Abrahamic justification by faith, the Mosaic Law given to ethnic, Old Testament Israel, the Mosaic Law's main purpose, and Christ's coming as the Incarnate Word.

In other words, all of these things are better understood if we first understand the story of Genesis, of man created in the imago deo, and of the shattering (though not removal) of that image presented to us in the Eden account.

Most people look at these things as &quot;spiritual legalese.&quot; I agree that there are &quot;legal&quot; aspects of Redemption, but I also feel like western Christianity, when not balanced by some aspects of orthodox thought, tends to reduce humans to human do-ings instead of human beings.

So, though I am not Orthodox Catholic, I am strongly catholic/universal in my attempts to understand God's grace. Of course, my namesake reveals some of my tendencies. I consider &quot;The Incarnation of the Word,&quot; written by the real Athanasius when he was about twenty, to be a pillar of post-biblical Christianity. I tend to doubt that many leaders of western Christendom have even read it.

 

[Athanasius]

BTW, all Christians who honor the New Testament should read 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 very carefully. In summary, Paul says, &quot;What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?

It is destructive and contrary to God's Word to judge the predispositions and behavior of those who don't even claim to be members of the Body of Christ. It almost never reaches people with God's Word and His Spirit. Rather, it polarizes and hinders the very goal we claim we are dedicated to: being ambassadors of Christ, His Love, His Justice, and how these are reconciled through His Grace.