'Incredible Progress' Made Restoring Iraq's Infrastructure, Officials Say

[charrison]

It is from the Dod, I assume all the naysayers will automatically discredit the article. But sounds like much progress is being made.

Linkage

 

[Moonbeam]

This is wonderful news.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

The very first sentence is bogus.

 

[LunarRay]

We be the best a building stuff... so it is good news for the Iraqi... lets hope we don't need to blow any more stuff up..

 

[MovingTarget]

This is truly signifigant progress in the rebuilding of Iraq's infrastructure. It was already in a bad enough state before the war began. I tend to agree with the DoD when they say its extremely difficult and time-consuming to rebuild a country of this size. One should not expect miracles overnight, as some apparently do in this situation. However, I personally feel that we could be doing better. More Equipment and Engineering personell should be sent in or something in order to further expediate the return of essential services. If we dont quicken the pace somewhat with these repairs, then the populace will start to give us more trouble than some parts of it currently are.

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
The very first sentence is bogus.

Which sentence do you consider to be "bogus" and why?

 

[Moonbeam]

I make it to be the first sentense, but I don't know why.

 

[Moonbeam]

Iraq's electrical system and other key infrastructure was all but ruined after years of neglect under Saddam Hussein's rule, but reconstruction efforts are improving life for the country's citizens with each passing day, U.S. officials in Baghdad said July 7.
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That's the first sentence and I don't know if it's a lie that it was said on July 7, or the July 7 statement to that effect was a lie. I would imagine alot depends on your perspective and what you're trying to sell.

 

[MovingTarget]

Does anyone know of a decent report or article as to the true state of the pre-war Iraqi infrastructure? I have heard it wasnt very reliable and prone to intermittent failure due to neglect by the Hussein regime.

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I make it to be the first sentense, but I don't know why.

The first sentence of the article or the first sentence of charrison's post? By trying so damn hard to be clever moonie you are being stupid.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Originally posted by: etech

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
The very first sentence is bogus.

Which sentence do you consider to be "bogus" and why?

Iraq's electrical system and other key infrastructure was all but ruined after years of neglect under Saddam Hussein's rule

I certainly have no doubt it wasn't up to US standards, but looting and vandalism took most of that infrastructure off line. It didn't just decide to simultaneously break down due to neglect all at once when we got there. But if 'all but ruined' was meant to mean 'working' I guess that statement isn't bogus, just misleading.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian

Originally posted by: etech

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
The very first sentence is bogus.

Which sentence do you consider to be "bogus" and why?

Iraq's electrical system and other key infrastructure was all but ruined after years of neglect under Saddam Hussein's rule

I certainly have no doubt it wasn't up to US standards, but looting and vandalism took most of that infrastructure off line. It didn't just decide to simultaneously break down due to neglect all at once when we got there. But if 'all but ruined' was meant to mean 'working' I guess that statement isn't bogus, just misleading.

Try reading more than first sentence. That is discussed.

 

[rchiu]

Iraq's electrical system and other key infrastructure was all but ruined after years of neglect under Saddam Hussein's rule, but reconstruction efforts are improving life for the country's citizens with each passing day, U.S. officials in Baghdad said July 7.

Yeah, sure....so all the bombing has nothing to do with the lost of electricity and key infrastrucure?

And is it just me or the article is trying to explain why there is so little progress, rather then showing "incredible progress"?

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Yeah, sure....so all the bombing has nothing to do with the lost of electricity and key infrastrucure?

In all fairness to the DoD, every report I've seen has attributed the outtages to mostly looting, vandalism, and sometimes sabatoge. Some power lines were taken down during the fighting, but I don't think any plants were hit.

 

[etech]

Gonad the Barbarian

I certainly have no doubt it wasn't up to US standards, but looting and vandalism took most of that infrastructure off line. It didn't just decide to simultaneously break down due to neglect all at once when we got there. But if 'all but ruined' was meant to mean 'working' I guess that statement isn't bogus, just misleading.

It is obvious that you haven't worked on old equipment. Very often it works, but as soon as you shut it down every possible problem will then become very apparent.

Bringing Baghdad Back to Life

 

[Moonbeam]

The first sentence of the article or the first sentence of charrison's post? By trying so damn hard to be clever moonie you are being stupid.
--------------------
Really, if I were in an uncharitable mood I would say that thinking he meant charrison's first sentence would have been stupid.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Iraq's electrical system and other key infrastructure was all but ruined after years of neglect under Saddam Hussein's rule, but reconstruction efforts are improving life for the country's citizens with each passing day, U.S. officials in Baghdad said July 7.

Yeah, sure....so all the bombing has nothing to do with the lost of electricity and key infrastrucure?

And is it just me or the article is trying to explain why there is so little progress, rather then showing "incredible progress"?

US officials are with out bias..
I sorta remember watching tv when a big explosion blew up an electric generation facility... but , it was old any how.. the hamsters also we knocked out so with them went the backup..
After all those years of no income other than food for oil ... what should we expect to find.. given he spent the $ on palace and furnishings and WMD...
I think we need a nuke facility in Baghdad to bring them up to speed with Iran and France... and the other industrialized nations..

 

[da loser]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
More Equipment and Engineering personell should be sent in or something in order to further expediate the return of essential services. If we dont quicken the pace somewhat with these repairs, then the populace will start to give us more trouble than some parts of it currently are.

actually pretty much everyone has said the personnel in iraq are just as good as their western counterparts plus they work for pennies on the dollar compared to western engineers. I know some of the operators at the local refinery that left are getting $200k, while the iraqis are probably getting 20k.

The main problem is management and parts. I'm not sure what they've decided, but it looks like they're trying to patch up the system temporarily then fix the system later. With such an old system, you might be trouble ordering parts and so on. Plus who knows how well documented these systems are, the iraqis have been brilliantly patching their system since 1991, so even if you have detailed plans, it might not represent what's currently there.

 

[MovingTarget]

I'm not exactly expecting miracles here. Those people over there have a big task ahead of them. I just hope this doesnt take any longer than it has to. I dont want things to get any messier over there because of lack of electricity and such. But you are right there about the lack of parts, management, and whatnot. It is just as important to give your people the recources they need in order to do their jobs in the most efficient manner as to just have them over there and expect them to make do. The people working on these systems are doing the best they can with what they have, but like I said, we can do better over there by giving them more of what they need whether it be supplies or whatever.

 

[tcsenter]

Its really not open to dispute the atrocious extent to which Hussein allowed Iraq's critical public infrastructures to rot into obsolesence and dilapidation in order to shift resources toward rebuilding his military and constructing what...like 40 palaces? Even the UN and UNICEF agreed that hardships suffered by the Iraqi people during the post-Gulf sanctions was due at least as much to a virtual halt on all manners of public works investment and improvement 10 years before the even Gulf War started.

And for the record, the US did not bomb power "generating" facilities. We bombed power "distribution" infrastructure.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: tcsenter
Its really not open to dispute the atrocious extent to which Hussein allowed Iraq's critical public infrastructures to rot into obsolesence and dilapidation in order to shift resources toward rebuilding his military and constructing what...like 40 palaces? Even the UN and UNICEF agreed that hardships suffered by the Iraqi people during the post-Gulf sanctions was due at least as much to a virtual halt on all manners of public works investment and improvement 10 years before the even Gulf War started.

And for the record, the US did not bomb power "generating" facilities. We bombed power "distribution" infrastructure.

Said by a citizen of a country that spends how much on defense?

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: tcsenter
Its really not open to dispute the atrocious extent to which Hussein allowed Iraq's critical public infrastructures to rot into obsolesence and dilapidation in order to shift resources toward rebuilding his military and constructing what...like 40 palaces? Even the UN and UNICEF agreed that hardships suffered by the Iraqi people during the post-Gulf sanctions was due at least as much to a virtual halt on all manners of public works investment and improvement 10 years before the even Gulf War started.

And for the record, the US did not bomb power "generating" facilities. We bombed power "distribution" infrastructure.

Good to keep the record on track... I'll stipulate that we bombed something that dealt with electric power. If you'll stipulate the hamsters also were killed.. or whatever we bragged about eliminating so the tv stations couldn't broadcast.. (beside the stations and the building housing them)

 

[Minchenden]

Whilst all the "progress" in rebuilding the infrastructure we destroyed is laudable, the actions of the "US liberators" in destroying and looting that infrastructure should be noted and, in those cases where guilt is obvious, the individuals concerned should be court martialed and, if found guilty, then sued for reparations in a civilian court



www.time.com/time/magazine/printout/0,8816,463062,00.html

Seems like the wonderful, freedom loving 3rd Infantry Division carried on the traditions of the US armed forces, by looting and pillaging. I wonder how many will be court martialed?

And I wonder who will pay, up to $100 million, for the aircraft replacement. Let me guess. Could it be the taxpayers.

 

[drewshin]

this is a great site that i've been keeping up with:

Iraqi Blog

from an iraqi living in baghdad.

quoting from june 18th:

There are rumors that a couple of high-tension electricity towers in the north have been sabotaged. Electricity has gotten worse, we get 5 hours of electricity a day in my neighborhood; it was so much better one week ago. People start grumbling again about the promises the Americans made and have not fulfilled.

looks like there is a lot of sabotage.

 

[Czar]

dont want to discredid how the military sees this, but here is a different one

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3049300.stm

I arrived in Baghdad at night. The city was plunged into darkness. It has been like this for weeks.
"Power cuts are the Americans' greatest failure," the driver told me at the end of the seven-hour long journey through the desert from the Kuwaiti border.

"Electricity, electricity is so important. If they only fixed that," he said with a look of frustration rapidly going over into a resigned expression.

He then added: "You know what, I think they are punishing us because of the continued attacks on their soldiers."

I came across another version of this rumour when I visited a small but burgeoning power generators market on the streets of the old town.

"The Americans," an Iraqi worker in Al-Rashid district told me, "drove around in a Baghdad suburb announcing in a loudspeaker 'security for us in return for electricity for you'".

A later version was even more conspiratorial.

An Iraqi shop owner in A-Karrada district, on the eastern bank of the Tigris, squatted on the pavement outside his shop after giving up hope that his air conditioner would ever work again.

"The Americans are behind the power cuts and the ensuing chaos," he said with a confident tone, "because this will give them a pretext to stay in Iraq for ever."

Temperatures can climb up to 50C in Baghdad during the summer.

This explains why electricity is next only to security for the residents of this city now.

rest of the article is rather weird and , yeah mostly weird