Question Inconsistent Home Internet Performance - Don't know how to diagnose

[Fis]

I am turning to this always-helpful community because I am stumped, and while my family thinks I understand this stuff (I like troubleshooting things on my own and am usually successful) the truth is I really don't know how networking works. At the risk of over-sharing, I'll lay out everything I know. And if I have to buy anything new, Black Friday would be a good opportunity I suppose.

The Problem

• Inconsistent internet performance in our home, whether wired or WiFi.
• Inconsistent WiFi coverage in our home -- sometimes great, sometimes not
• Inconsistent performance of WiFi -- sometimes connected but can't reach the internet
• NEW DEVELOPMENT: Connecting too many devices to the router caused internet connectivity to drop everywhere

The Network

I diagrammed it all. Two floors. Click thumbnails to view. The bold lines are brick walls. We have a Verizon FiOS Gateway G1100 router in the corner of level 1, with the WiFi turned off. Connected to the router are 3 gigabit switches from D-Link and TP-Link, from which we have Cat5E running from that room to many other rooms in the house. There are switches in a few of those rooms as well.​

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For WiFi, at the center of the lower level, I have an Orbi RB20 AC2200 Router, operating in AP Mode.​

Above that, at the center of the top level, I have an Orbi RB20 Satellite, connected to the Orbi router via WiFi (I could not get the satellite to connect to the Orbi router via ethernet, going through all the switches).​

I've fixed the channels at 6 and 40.​

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I downloaded a free trial of VisiWave and created these heatmaps, but it's worth noting that they vary wildly by the hour.​

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At any given time, we have 25 to 30 connected devices. Right now 9 are ethernet wired, 8 are using 2.4GHz, and 7 are using 5GHz.​

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In terms of wireless interference, we are in a single family home, so I don't think it's a problem, but depending on where you stand, you can pick up the a weak signal from more than a half dozen SSIDs from our neighbors.​

What I've observed

I purchased this Orbi system earlier this year (I had been using the FiOS router for WiFi, and had a quality TP-LINK AC1200 Access point on the 2nd level). That system had worked great at first, then the spotty performance started, and so I switched to the Orbi system, which also seemed great at first, but now frankly seems to perform no better than what it replaced.​

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We pay for 85/85 from Verizon FiOS, which is plenty for us. Internet Speed Tests are wildly inconsistent. Most of the time, we get good speeds up/down (not always 85Mbps, but enough for us all to work), but sometimes the UPLOAD speed tanks to almost zero. This can happen whether it's a wired desktop or a wireless laptop or phone.​

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When this happens, it's sometimes device-specific. It won't affect everybody in the house at the same time. In fact, if the internet stops responding on my desktop, I can sometimes switch from ethernet to WiFi and get a solid connection. The next day, everything will be fine and I can go back to ethernet.​

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Verizon has it's own speed test site that shows separate performance for router-to-network and device-to-network. If that site is to be trusted, it shows the upload speed problem to be isolated entirely to device-to-network.​

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What I've tried

I was advised by somebody to go into my Orbi settings, and check Enable Beamforming, Enable MU-MIMO, and Enable Fast Roaming, and to un-check Enable Daisy Chain Topology. I did that and the problems continued.​

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So I tried creating the heat maps above, and that suggested that placement or # of devices is not the problem, but I tried messing with the access points anyway, moving the Orbi router to the other side of the house, and turning on the Verizon WiFi (same SSID, different unique channels). I don't know what I did, but after working well for about a half hour, EVERY device in the house went off line (strong signal but "no internet"), including hard wired devices. We still had internet to the house according to Verizon, but no internet from the Verizon router.​

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Turning off the Verizon WiFi and wwitching everything back to the way it was didn't solve the problem. The only way I got things working again was to unplug all but one of the switches from the Verizon router. Any time I plugged two things back in, we lost internet throughout the house. So now I have one 8-port switch serving critical devices around the house, and everything else is temporarily disconnected.​

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What Next?

I have stretched my limited knowledge of networking and don't know how to diagnose. I don't know if the router is fried, or if it's my inside wiring, or some configuration I don't understand, or if I'd should buy more access points or something else.​

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If you've read all of this, then I already owe you my thanks for your time!

 

[SamirD]

So when facing a problem like this that involves both wired and wireless, I start with the wired and start at the source. If you can't get a consistent 85/85 at the verizon router through wired, then the problem starts there. Once you resolve that, then you can move on to see what may be going on with the switches.

Once all the wired is working, then I would work with your old wireless setup and keep the orbi disconnected. The reason your wireless probably goes up and down all the time is because there is interference from other access points which have their channel selection set to automatic. But with yours being fixed, your equipment can't adjust so it makes it worse vs better. (I once had to deal with 100 access points within the same range as mine and there was never an open channel. I thought I could set mine to a fixed channel that wouldn't cause interference and I found it to be far worse than leaving mine on auto.) I think that once you have wired fixed, the wireless will fix itself, and I'm pretty convinced the orbi was causing problems too as they try to be too 'smart' on a large network like yours and mess things up.

 

[Fis]

So when facing a problem like this that involves both wired and wireless, I start with the wired and start at the source. If you can't get a consistent 85/85 at the verizon router through wired, then the problem starts there. Once you resolve that, then you can move on to see what may be going on with the switches.

Thank you. So you're saying the next time I see this issue pop up on a PC, try connecting that PC directly to the router without going through a switch? What am I looking for?

Once all the wired is working, then I would work with your old wireless setup and keep the orbi disconnected. The reason your wireless probably goes up and down all the time is because there is interference from other access points which have their channel selection set to automatic. But with yours being fixed, your equipment can't adjust so it makes it worse vs better. (I once had to deal with 100 access points within the same range as mine and there was never an open channel. I thought I could set mine to a fixed channel that wouldn't cause interference and I found it to be far worse than leaving mine on auto.) I think that once you have wired fixed, the wireless will fix itself, and I'm pretty convinced the orbi was causing problems too as they try to be too 'smart' on a large network like yours and mess things up.

FWIW, using fixed channels is something I tried only recently. The problem definitely predates that. In fact it predates purchasing the Orbi units.

P.S. I found this thread and was wondering whether, if the router is the problem, I might be able to try something similar and bypass the Verizon FiOS router altogether. But that definitely scares me.

 

[SamirD]

Thank you. So you're saying the next time I see this issue pop up on a PC, try connecting that PC directly to the router without going through a switch? What am I looking for?
FWIW, using fixed channels is something I tried only recently. The problem definitely predates that. In fact it predates purchasing the Orbi units.

P.S. I found this thread and was wondering whether, if the router is the problem, I might be able to try something similar and bypass the Verizon FiOS router altogether. But that definitely scares me.

Exactly. Bypass everything and connect direct wired. If you still have the problem, then the problem IS with the isp because they are responsible for making sure the ports on their device are giving you the speeds you're paying for. Even their own techs will typically check this.

Yep, the problem is that wifi sucks--there's only so many channels and with other access points 'screaming' (transmitting at full power), even if you don't get the ssid if the signal is in the air, it messes with the airwaves and creates noise. Unfortunately the only real solution here is to have better coverage from your own access points and block any stray signals the best you can. Moving more devices to wired also helps.

I had Verizon at a previous residence and if you have any other services through verizon, I would most definitely NOT try bypassing their gateway. It will mess everything else up. Generally I found their gateway worked well, so aside from it being defective, I wouldn't change it. Actiontec makes some good products.

 

[Fis]

I had Verizon at a previous residence and if you have any other services through verizon, I would most definitely NOT try bypassing their gateway. It will mess everything else up. Generally I found their gateway worked well, so aside from it being defective, I wouldn't change it. Actiontec makes some good products.

I can get a refurb of this Gateway Router this weekend for $70 on Amazon with free returns. I'm wondering if the quickest path to troubleshooting is to order it, swap routers, and see if the problems go away!