Incomprehensible mass shooting happens again

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nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
58,054
12,240
136

that's surely going to help calm the situation down right? Love the targets on the schools, such a nice affect
Last post in "News" from 5/13/22: https://libertyallianceusa.com/lan/thank-a-hero-its-national-police-week/
This week is National Police Week– a time dedicated to honoring those who risk their lives to protect our communities.


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Police officers deserve our gratitude and unwavering support each and every day.

Be sure to share your appreciation with those individuals who make our country safe.

Send a thank you note, buy a cop a cup of coffee, just tell them thank you! Every little bit helps.
So very heroic.
 
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Nov 29, 2006
15,599
4,049
136
The problem with more regulation on firearms is its a very slippery slope. I don't want bad people to be able to legally purchase anymore than anyone else, but it's something that should be tread VERY carefully or the U.S. will end up like Australia.

can you tell us what is so bad about australia in your mind?
 
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Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,647
5,220
136
You call that hostile to law abiding citizens? Wtf is wrong with you?

Can you explain any of the why's?
Can you explain how it actually stops a criminal?

There are so many laws and regulations on the books a lawful owner needs to be highly aware of to not run afoul of, then only to watch murders and criminals just ignore them all and commit the crimes they wanted to anyway.

But the *next* law is always the one to finally end crime....
 

conehead433

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2002
5,565
889
126
Canada is acting to freeze handgun sales and buy back assault style weapons. Australia and New Zealand have already acted. The US will remain the Wild Wild West for as long as your Republican Senators and Representatives can keep it that way. And since the shootings in Uvalde has sparked outrage that has lasted longer than three days we now have at least a few Republican Senators who are acting like they actually want to do something about it. If only our duly elected politicians' contributions could be limited to a few hundred dollars per person and completely disallow corporate donations. Think NRA and Citizens United. Who needs Congress when the Supreme Court can decide what laws we need. Requiring background checks would at least be a start. So we all already know how this will play out. A few Republicans will make a big show about how they are for gun control and always have been. Then a bill will fail by one or two votes. Yippee Ki-Yay mofos!

 

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
24,202
5,608
136
can you tell us what is so bad about australia in your mind?

tbh i have looked into moving to australia

have a friend who moved there almost 10 years ago and she really loves it

i visited for weeks and loved melbourne most of all

but i'll probably just take my chances in the US cuz the money's better here
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,200
14,874
136
Can you explain any of the why's?
Can you explain how it actually stops a criminal?

There are so many laws and regulations on the books a lawful owner needs to be highly aware of to not run afoul of, then only to watch murders and criminals just ignore them all and commit the crimes they wanted to anyway.

But the *next* law is always the one to finally end crime....

Your argument boils down to; criminals break laws therefore laws don’t work.

That’s pretty fucking retarded logic there.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
8,936
4,261
136
Your argument boils down to; criminals break laws therefore laws don’t work.

That’s pretty fucking retarded logic there.

As I keep saying, these gun nutters too selfish to even help save children. MUH RIGHTS! MUH FREEDUMS!!!
 
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Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,647
5,220
136
Your argument boils down to; criminals break laws therefore laws don’t work.

That’s pretty fucking retarded logic there.

A dodge, but yes, useless laws don't work. Learn about the issues and nuances to figure it out because the status quo isn't working, and dumb laws breed distrust.

My post from the other thread, bc we have two for some reason:
----

A deal on reform legislation is possible tho I believe if we can get past the name calling and absolutism. Gun owners don't want these shootings either, but won't give up rights for self defense unless they think the trade off will be effective and worth it.

Not all gun owners and NRA members are lunatic Q nuts, insurrectionists, Trumpers, and far right Republicans. Moderates and liberals are also gun owners.

I think you can get enough gun owners to agree to raising the age limit for powerful semi-automatic rifles to 21 (just like we have for pistols already) but it will take a lot of carrots because there is so little trust in both directions.

Kids are not emotionally mature enough for beer and cigs, many will agree for ARs as well.

You would need some sort of carve out for hunting rifles or you will face high opposition. Say bolt actions with a hunting license.

Then Ds have to give up something to Rs?
Can they agree to mental health resources and armed teachers, the thing Rs propose?

What's it worth to them? At least call the bluff.

Many of these shootings are really violent revenge homicides before suicide, so we should do more to stop violence before it starts, not just slightly nerf the weapons.

Leave the red flag laws a local matter, a national program will be a nonstarter.

Maybe add funding for gun safety and training classes? Many gun owners pay lots of money for training, subsidies for this would be well met and help prevent accidents.

Also, serious resources into investigating gun traffickers and straw purchases. Many weapons used in crimes (50%?) are illegally obtained. Law abiding gun owners jump thru lots of hoops just to watch criminals walk around them.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,200
14,874
136
A dodge, but yes, useless laws don't work. Learn about the issues and nuances to figure it out because the status quo isn't working, and dumb laws breed distrust.

My post from the other thread, bc we have two for some reason:
----

A deal on reform legislation is possible tho I believe if we can get past the name calling and absolutism. Gun owners don't want these shootings either, but won't give up rights for self defense unless they think the trade off will be effective and worth it.

Not all gun owners and NRA members are lunatic Q nuts, insurrectionists, Trumpers, and far right Republicans. Moderates and liberals are also gun owners.

I think you can get enough gun owners to agree to raising the age limit for powerful semi-automatic rifles to 21 (just like we have for pistols already) but it will take a lot of carrots because there is so little trust in both directions.

Kids are not emotionally mature enough for beer and cigs, many will agree for ARs as well.

You would need some sort of carve out for hunting rifles or you will face high opposition. Say bolt actions with a hunting license.

Then Ds have to give up something to Rs?
Can they agree to mental health resources and armed teachers, the thing Rs propose?

What's it worth to them? At least call the bluff.

Many of these shootings are really violent revenge homicides before suicide, so we should do more to stop violence before it starts, not just slightly nerf the weapons.

Leave the red flag laws a local matter, a national program will be a nonstarter.

Maybe add funding for gun safety and training classes? Many gun owners pay lots of money for training, subsidies for this would be well met and help prevent accidents.

Also, serious resources into investigating gun traffickers and straw purchases. Many weapons used in crimes (50%?) are illegally obtained. Law abiding gun owners jump thru lots of hoops just to watch criminals walk around them.

You can propose whatever the hell you want but remember if gun owners don’t start offering solutions that work then they’ll get solutions from non gun owners that you might not like.

I couldn’t care less about anyone’s right to own a gun so if you lose that right it’ll be because gun owners didn’t care enough about protecting people as they did about protecting their guns.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,647
5,220
136
As I keep saying, these gun nutters too selfish to even help save children. MUH RIGHTS! MUH FREEDUMS!!!

Are you done? Name calling moves the issue nowhere.

Maybe go out to a protest and scream baby killer at strangers. Same fat lot of good it will do, but at least you'll get some sunshine and fresh air
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,647
5,220
136
You can propose whatever the hell you want but remember if gun owners don’t start offering solutions that work then they’ll get solutions from non gun owners that you might not like.

I couldn’t care less about anyone’s right to own a gun so if you lose that right it’ll be because gun owners didn’t care enough about protecting people as they did about protecting their guns.

Just did, and no, republicans hold the aces. Face reality.

2A is a constitutional right, conservatives control the high courts, and the Ds hold on power is tenuous and midterms look bleak.

Rs can do nothing and wait you out. Obama went all in on gun ban after Newtown and got nothing.

Got better ideas? Let's hear em
 

FlawleZ

Member
Oct 13, 2016
88
102
91
I agree with you but that wasn’t what the poster I was responding too was doing.
Just what exactly was I doing in my previous post? And being racist is the wrong answer. Still waiting for the reason you accused me of that in the first place.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,200
14,874
136
Just did, and no, republicans hold the aces. Face reality.

2A is a constitutional right, conservatives control the high courts, and the Ds hold on power is tenuous and midterms look bleak.

Rs can do nothing and wait you out. Obama went all in on gun ban after Newtown and got nothing.

Got better ideas? Let's hear em

I don’t need answers because I’m not the one with something to lose.

Just so you know, the current interpretation of the 2nd can go away just as easily as it came. Keeping fucking with the majority and eventually they’ll bite back.
 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
25,988
23,783
136
Just what exactly was I doing in my previous post? And being racist is the wrong answer. Still waiting for the reason you accused me of that in the first place.
Fuck off. The answers to your questions were given in my posts already.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,647
5,220
136
I don’t need answers because I’m not the one with something to lose.

Just so you know, the current interpretation of the 2nd can go away just as easily as it came. Keeping fucking with the majority and eventually they’ll bite back.

Yeah, I don't share that optimistic look of how it will play out. The people with "something to lose" have been fighting and winning legally and electorally for decades.

Columbine occurred under Clinton's AWB, which sunsetted in 2004, and has not come even close to being renewed in almost 20 years.

Even if it was, the myriad of studies on the ban found mostly inconclusive results, and little impact on the overall rate of homicide ( but mass shootings were less deadly.)

You may be patient to wait around for decades for a window to pass another short lived law that changes little, but I'd like to see something beneficial now.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,491
9,817
136
Yeah, I don't share that optimistic look of how it will play out. The people with "something to lose" have been fighting and winning legally and electorally for decades.

Columbine occurred under Clinton's AWB, which sunsetted in 2004, and has not come even close to being renewed in almost 20 years.

Even if it was, the myriad of studies on the ban found mostly inconclusive results, and little impact on the overall rate of homicide ( but mass shootings were less deadly.)

You may be patient to wait around for decades for a window to pass another short lived law that changes little, but I'd like to see something beneficial now.
Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

We've done the same thing for 20+ years (nothing), and things haven't gotten any better.

Time to actually do something, cause thoughts and prayers aren't going to stop the next mass shooting.

And I used the be very pro-gun but I'm tired of this shit.
 

NWRMidnight

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,922
2,554
136
Can you explain any of the why's?
Can you explain how it actually stops a criminal?

There are so many laws and regulations on the books a lawful owner needs to be highly aware of to not run afoul of, then only to watch murders and criminals just ignore them all and commit the crimes they wanted to anyway.

But the *next* law is always the one to finally end crime....
For fuck's sake.. lets just abolish speed limits and all other laws.. you know, because there will always be those that will speed and break the laws.. To you It's not about the Millions of people that those laws do help keep safe, it's about those that will still break them. Maybe step back and think about how much worse crime would be if it wasn't for those laws instead of running around with your head up your ass, claiming the laws do nothing for crime because to you, it's not slowing down crime., all while ignoring many other factors that are influencing the crime such as poverty, population growth, population density, etc.. For once, pull your head out of your ass and actually think... Please!
 
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