Incoming House majority leader pledges allegiance to....

GarfieldtheCat

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2005
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Israel. o_O

Link

From his comment:

"Eric stressed that the new Republican majority will serve as a check on the Administration and what has been, up until this point, one party rule in Washington," the readout continued. "He made clear that the Republican majority understands the special relationship between Israel and the United States, and that the security of each nation is reliant upon the other."

Wow, so Eric Cantor is basically placing Israel before the US? Really?

Of course, similar things have happened before, as the article notes.

Pelosi went to Syria, and didn't even say anything, just visited, and was called a traitor and Eric Cantor himself said this:

"Several leading legal authorities have made the case that [Pelosi's] recent diplomatic overtures ran afoul of the Logan Act, which makes it a felony for any American 'without authority of the United States' to communicate with a foreign government to influence that government's behavior on any disputes with the United States."

So according to Cantor, he himself committed a felony. Good to see his double standard is alive and well. I await all the neocons to maintain intellectual honesty and condemn this, since they condemned Pelosi.

The linked article also points out a couple of other instances where Democrats were labeled as traitors for just visiting and talking to other governments, without pledging loyalty to them. But now that a Republican did it, we will see if this makes the news (probably not, I wonder why?)
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
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Israel. o_O
From his comment:
Wow, so Eric Cantor is basically placing Israel before the US? Really?
Of course, similar things have happened before, as the article notes.
Pelosi went to Syria, and didn't even say anything, just visited, and was called a traitor and Eric Cantor himself said this:
So according to Cantor, he himself committed a felony. Good to see his double standard is alive and well. I await all the neocons to maintain intellectual honesty and condemn this, since they condemned Pelosi.
The linked article also points out a couple of other instances where Democrats were labeled as traitors for just visiting and talking to other governments, without pledging loyalty to them. But now that a Republican did it, we will see if this makes the news (probably not, I wonder why?)
Understanding "the special relationship between Israel and the United States, and that the security of each nation is reliant upon the other." does not equal "putting Israel before the US". It also does not equal "pledging loyalty to Israel".

Unless you have some other information you didn't bother to link, I have to say "facts not in evidence".

edit: you should have quoted:
Soon-to-be GOP House Majority Leader Eric Cantor met on Wednesday with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu -- the same day when the actual U.S. Secretary of State met with Netanyahu -- and vowed that he and his GOP colleagues would protect and defend Israeli interests against his own Government.
That provides all the meat missing from your OP. I reverse my above comment.
 
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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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The issue of Israel is not black and white. It's complicated, with good and bad and gray.

But the approach of Republicans to the issue is corrupt. It's about power, not morality.
 

DominionSeraph

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Jul 22, 2009
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I don't see his words as supporting that interpretation. He just massively undermined the government's bargaining position by saying that he will ensure that the policy that ends up being in place will have no stipulations on them.
And with no stipulations on Israel the US will have nothing to barter with the Palestinians nor the Arab neighbors... so there goes any chance of Middle East peace.
All to set the Republicans up for 2012.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Color me surprised when this is old old hat, as the incoming house republicans renew the the old 1994 Newt Gingrich pledge to America.

It was a crock of steaming bullshit in 1994, why should we expect the 2010 version of steaming bullshit to be any more tasty now?

But still I should stay classy, let time judge if the GOP majority in the house can deliver any bacon?
 
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Freshgeardude

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Jul 31, 2006
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if someone heard Cantor say,

"that the new Republican majority will serve as a check on the Administration and what has been, up until this point, one party rule in Washington"


no one would say anything.


A lot (like 90%) of the senate and house didnt like what obama was doing with israel.

In my eyes, it seems he is re alliterating what was already commonly known ground.
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
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Hawkish move by cantor you can bet he is going to go wildly against any military cuts..
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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when Israel assassinates and tortures people, the world just laughs and says "oh Israel, you wacky bastard."

Funny thing about Israel and the other countries in the area. With countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran they get off on torturing and killing their own people. Oh those crazy folks who stone women who have been raped. What will they think of next?
 

GarfieldtheCat

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Jan 7, 2005
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Understanding "the special relationship between Israel and the United States, and that the security of each nation is reliant upon the other." does not equal "putting Israel before the US". It also does not equal "pledging loyalty to Israel".

Unless you have some other information you didn't bother to link, I have to say "facts not in evidence".

edit: you should have quoted: That provides all the meat missing from your OP. I reverse my above comment.

You are right, sorry about that.

If a democrat had come out and said that a few years ago, they would have been accused of treason by every R talking-head on TV (and here on P&N). But since it's a R doing this, all you hear is crickets chirping.

The dude accused Pelosi of committing a crime for the exact thing he just did himself. WTF?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Israel figures in on Christian end times theology. Very important stuff to the mentally ill.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
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A lot of our politicians have pledged allegiance to various European countries, including almost all of our Presidents. I wonder why no one criticizes that...

The only exception has been Obama. His treatment of the UK (and Germany and Span and France and...) and lack of personal relationships with European leaders shows his indifference to transatlantic ties.
 
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manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
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Wait arent the corporations going to get mad they are going to play second fiddle?
 

Craig234

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May 1, 2006
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Wait arent the corporations going to get mad they are going to play second fiddle?

They won't. It's the American people who will play something below second fiddle to both.

And don't even talk about the Palestinians and other Middle Easterners.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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Makes sense to me. We should support a relatively free country with a vibrant economy in a basket case of fundamentalism and radicalism. Sorry just way I roll. If I were born in Syria I may feel different. But they are closer to us in mores tenets and law. I'd get chopped up in a lot of those other places way I speak my mind, not who I'm rolling with.

I think my wife would cut my nuts off for taking her to fundi states first. I'm not supporting that either.
 
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GroundedSailor

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Feb 18, 2001
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Understanding "the special relationship between Israel and the United States, and that the security of each nation is reliant upon the other." does not equal "putting Israel before the US". It also does not equal "pledging loyalty to Israel".

Unless you have some other information you didn't bother to link, I have to say "facts not in evidence".

edit: you should have quoted: That provides all the meat missing from your OP. I reverse my above comment.
You are right, sorry about that.

If a democrat had come out and said that a few years ago, they would have been accused of treason by every R talking-head on TV (and here on P&N). But since it's a R doing this, all you hear is crickets chirping.

The dude accused Pelosi of committing a crime for the exact thing he just did himself. WTF?

If Cantor is siding with a foreign leader to undermine the efforts of a current administration in a matter of US foreign policy, he should be charged with sedition.

In law, sedition is overt conduct, such as speech and organization, that is deemed by the legal authority to tend toward insurrection against the established order. Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent (or resistance) to lawful authority. Sedition may include any commotion, though not aimed at direct and open violence against the laws. Seditious words in writing are seditious libel.

..
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
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Funny thing about Israel and the other countries in the area. With countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran they get off on torturing and killing their own people. Oh those crazy folks who stone women who have been raped. What will they think of next?

So are you mentioning this in defense of Israel's tactics, or to show that as everyone else knows, they are no less monstrous than the fuckhole countries that surround them?

:hmm:
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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If Cantor is siding with a foreign leader to undermine the efforts of a current administration in a matter of US foreign policy, he should be charged with sedition.

In law, sedition is overt conduct, such as speech and organization, that is deemed by the legal authority to tend toward insurrection against the established order. Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent (or resistance) to lawful authority. Sedition may include any commotion, though not aimed at direct and open violence against the laws. Seditious words in writing are seditious libel.

..

We should be careful with this sort of thing. This does fall far short of 'sedition' IMO.

I suspect Cantor is an immoral whore, happy to corruptly give Israel any blank check to hurt anyone they want with Americans giving them financial and political cover.

And whether it's for one set of misguided, corrupt reasons or another isn't really the issue.

And it's a very serious matter for our leaders to be so beholden to any group whether it's big pharma or the military-industrial complex or the Israel lobby.

But having said that, our leaders need the right to oppose the administration.

If a political leader said "The North Vietnamese are being wronged by being tortured and killed in their effort to rid their country of cenuries of foreign occupation, and I support ending funding for our war and support a peace process to end the war", is that treasonous to LBJ? If they called for war crime charges against LBJ for aggressive war, for torture, for chemical warfare, is that treason?

If leaders had said the Sandanista goverment had the right to be free of Reagan's terrorist attacks to try to force them out of power, if they had wanted criminal charges for his violating the law against funding Contras and things like Iran-Contra, is that treason? How about opposing the US invasion of Grenada based on corrupt reasons and lies?

If the leaders of Germany had opposed Hitler for his aggressive war policies, do we think they would be 'traitors'?

We do not and should not have a monolithic policy set by the President forced on all elected leaders. If they're wrong to oppose him, we have the ballot box.

But we need to have independant, distributed power to allow the opposition of corrupt or wrong policy. Vietnam was in large part driven to end by the opposition of Congress.

It might have gone on a lot longer if the congressional opponents could be charged.

A real example that I think probably crosses the line but is little known and was not prosecuted was Nixon's apparentl subversion of the nation's peace agenda in Vietnam.

There is evidence that while LBJ was negotiating peace, Nixon sent word to the South Vietnamese that he'd reward them if elected, if they refused to sign the agreement.

To the government's shock, after they had the North Vietnamese government progressing on peace, the South Vietnamese refused to cooperate for no apparent reason.

That's beyond the right to oppose the president on poilicy, and probably a criminal subversion of our nation, as were the Reagan administration illegal activities.

And I'd think there was a good amount criminal in our Vietnam policies, too, including launching the aggressive war. But at least we had the pretense of an 'ally to defend'.

Some people yawn and say 'stop criticizing acts of the US and let it do what it wants to our enemies. Who cares who it kills and how.' I say these people are immoral, bad citizens.

Their 'argument' often tries to say the only choices are 'do any immoral and criminal acts that get us power, or we will be conquered by evil nations'. Wrong apology for evil.

The US needs to be great as well as have whatever power it has. It has to have some moral standards it doesn't just give lip service to.

It can't be a 'thug' nation for any selfish reason able to demonize and kill anyone who simply won't sign over the rights to their country by calling them names.

Edit: now, the issue of if Cantor is supporting a foreign nation's agenda over the US *for money* does raise other questions and can be more criminal if accepting funding from another nation - a reminder why that is illegal, creating leaders here who support the other nation over the American people - and another reminder is how *we've* used pressure including money to 'buy off' foreign leaders to support our agenda over their nation's people. But since the money might well be from *American* supports of Israel, and it's the American Jews who are putting Isreal ahead of the US, that complicates things.

American citizens have that right. If you want to say you love France so much you want the US to commit to her defense and give her billions in military equipment for no reason but that you care more about her welfare than you do about the cost to the US, that is your right as a citizen to have that opinion, to try to persuade others to agree, to give money to campaigns who agree. You might be terribly wrong and damaging to the US, but it's your right as a citizen, rather than having the government say 'sorry, you can't have that opinion and push it.'

We're *supposed* to say "look at those people pushing the bad agenda, get rid of them", and when the voters do not do that, 'we get the government we deserve'.

But it is one more step in reminding us the danger of money in politics - and IMO we have a real issue with the excessive level support for Israel, as shown by, as Glenn Greenwald pointed out, both party's presedential candidates going to the Israel lobby to pledge US commitment to protecting only one OTHER nation than the US, Israel, policies that go far beyond just 'protecting Israel from threat from her neighbors' and extend to a lot of protecting from wrongdoing, including the whoring out of our UN veto against pretty much every other nation in the world, for any bad things they do.

You can suppot Israel, and still draw these lines, still note how bad her neighbors are, and so on. Saying 'we won't support a wrong act by Israel' isn't hating Israel or loving her enemies.

Citizens have the right to demand bad policy, but single-minded organizations should not be able to defeat the broader American people - our system should not allow that, as it bans foreign donations.

Cantor, if he's as bad as suspected, is not the problem, just a symptom, the problem being when citizens have a wrong agenda they have a right to have, and our system allowing monied corruption.

Save234
 
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GroundedSailor

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Feb 18, 2001
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In our system the President is charged with dealing with other countries. It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with his policies, you are not supposed to side with foreign powers (friendly or otherwise) to countermand the sitting President's policies.

As a politician and citizen of this country Cantor has every right to disagree publicly with the President, and I will support his right to disagree in the House, on the campaign trail, anywhere within the country.

Siding with, and tacitly promising, a foreign leader an outcome in US policy towards the foreign country which is against the position of the current President towards that country, adds up to sedition IMHO.

I realize that Cantor is playing politics and playing to his base but he should not involve foreigners in internal politics. That is where he crosses the line.


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