Before the Bush's SOTU address, Iran's hardliners' grip on power were loosening. Now with his "Axis of evil" comment, Bush has done what those hardliners counldn't do themselves: solidify their grip on power. Bush has effectively reversed the reformist pendulum in Iran. I wonder which one of our "bright" speechwriters got that great idea. Now, the entire Iran is chanting Death to America. So much for bring democracy to IRAN. If this is the "superior" REPUBLICAN foreign policy, the conservative warmongers will get their WWIII soon. I support a strong military, but that doesn't mean we go around pissing countries off and putting our troops in danger.
In one sentence in his State of the Union address, Bush has turned back a decade of reform in Iran.
- Thread starter Pennstate
- Start date
Iran was reverting back to the "hardliners" and Khamenei before that speech..............Not saying it was the greatest move, but it sounds like others already knew things were degrading quickly in Iran............
- Iran heading for civil rebellion, says ex-Shah's son
January 28, 2002 Posted: 5:20 PM EST (2220 GMT)
January 28, 2002 Posted: 5:20 PM EST (2220 GMT)
PARIS, France (Reuters) -- The son of Iran's late Shah said Monday there was widespread dissatisfaction among the Iranian people with President Mohammad Khatami's "puppet government" and pressure for reform was building toward civil rebellion.
In an interview with the French Catholic daily newspaper La Croix, Reza Pahlavi urged the international community to back a change of regime.
"There is a demand for political, economic and social reform in Iran which is heading toward becoming a movement of civil rebelliousness," Pahlavi said in an advanced copy of the interview, due to appear in Tuesday's edition of La Croix.
"This concerns all layers of the population."
Pahlavi's father, the pro-western Shah Mohammed Reza Pahlavi, was ousted in 1979 by the country's Islamic revolution. He died in 1980.
Iran is now on the U.S. list of state sponsors of terrorism, and it is trying to develop weapons of mass destruction.
The country has struggled to create jobs for its big youth population, instrumental in Khatami's defeat of candidates backed by the conservative establishment in 1997 and his reelection in June 2001.
Besides unemployment, a major source of discontent among young people, are the strict Islamic laws which include bans on dating and Western-style parties.
"Five years after President Mohammad Khatami came to power, proclaiming to be liberal and moderate, none of his promises have been realized," Pahlavi said.
"The real government will not allow reforms. Repression and censure continue; members of parliament whom disagree with Khamenei are put in prison," he said.
Khatami, a mid-ranking cleric who has championed liberal reforms, has vowed to remain faithful to his program. However, he is hampered by powerful Islamic hard-liners within the clerical establishment and judiciary whom actually make policy.
The president's powers are dwarfed by those of supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, close to the conservatives.
Hard-line courts have closed dozens of independent newspapers and jailed many reformers. Parliament has seen many of its reforms blocked by Khamenei and the hard liners.
Pahlavi urged Iran to shift away from it's current policy to a more democratic system of government and a separation of the clergy from the state.
nitemare, I agree with you about going in and wiping out the government. But if we have no intention of doing so, why aggrevate the problem?
yeah, it was an incredibly foolish thing to say.
this war is no longer about terrorism anymore, it's just a pick and choose your enemies.
aha! this terrorist was one-eigth ________, therefore ________ supports terrorism, let's go bomb the hell out of them
if they've disagreed with us before...hmmm i wonder what we can get out of them before we do so though?
this war is no longer about terrorism anymore, it's just a pick and choose your enemies.
aha! this terrorist was one-eigth ________, therefore ________ supports terrorism, let's go bomb the hell out of them
if they've disagreed with us before...hmmm i wonder what we can get out of them before we do so though?
<<why aggrevate the problem? >>
Perhaps to put them on notice. If the hardliners want weapons of mass destruction, they will develop such at the risk of irritating a country that has demonstrated a very good grasp of bombing campaigns.
Iran's president has pushed, and pretty hard, for reform, but has little to show for it. Though I respect his intentions and admire his efforts, he doesn't control the country. The theologian megalomaniacs need to be alerted, instead.
Perhaps to put them on notice. If the hardliners want weapons of mass destruction, they will develop such at the risk of irritating a country that has demonstrated a very good grasp of bombing campaigns.
Iran's president has pushed, and pretty hard, for reform, but has little to show for it. Though I respect his intentions and admire his efforts, he doesn't control the country. The theologian megalomaniacs need to be alerted, instead.
what's foolish about it? are you kidding yourselves about who holds the real power in the iranian government? maybe this is pissing off the new youth movement who want reform but just remember it was not so long ago that this youth movement wanted death to all americans. youth movements come and go; the theocrats hold the power and i don't see them giving it up short of rebellion. maybe this "foolish comment" by Bush will spark a greater dissatisfaction with the government amongst these youth groups who do not see reforms being realized.
<< I wonder which one of our "bright" speechwriters got that great idea. >>
FWIW, the wife of the speechwriter who wrote the "axis of evil" speech blabbed to her friends about her husband and how he wrote it...in turn those friends told friends...in turn...well, you get the idea. I forget his name, but he was pretty embarrassed and mad at his wife for spilling the beans on such a high profile speech.
50 TONS of Iranian weapons caught in a smuggleing attempt to Palestine.
Iran known supporter of terrorism.
Iran also suspected of escape point for Taliban and Al Queda terrorists.
Spare us all the "new look and new voice" of Iran speech.
Iran known supporter of terrorism.
Iran also suspected of escape point for Taliban and Al Queda terrorists.
Spare us all the "new look and new voice" of Iran speech.
<< We should just go in there and wipe them out to and give back Iran to the people >>
Yeah, we did that already, and the extremist Muslim element overthrew our guy. They are in a minority, but they are a powerful and obnoxious minority.
<< Before the Bush's SOTU address, Iran's hardliners' grip on power were loosening. Now with his "Axis of evil" comment, Bush has done what those hardliners counldn't do themselves: solidify their grip on power. Bush has effectively reversed the reformist pendulum in Iran. >>
If you think Bush's comments singularly and unilaterally reversed all of the supposed "reforms" in Iran, I think Iran did its job in the PR department. Notice how that shipment of weapons bound for Palestine came from Iran? I don't think that it's any surprise. That's probably in part what triggered the comment in addition to continuing development on weapons of mass destruction.
Reform in Iran is all rhetoric. Regardless of what the leaders and students say, Iran is still an outlaw nation that trains and exports weapons and terrorists.
This comment was made to put Iran's ruling class (Shiite religious nutjobs) on notice. The Iranian president is just reformist window dressing for what remains a radical Shiite movement. The students may be sincere, but have no real clout. The words in the SOTU message were carefully measured. After all, this was the first SOTU that was broadcast in many Middle Eastern nations.
This was a message for the American people... and for those who seek to harm us.
In recent years, Iran has watched us utterly destroy Iraq with ease (something they could not do in years of armed conflict). Iran also watched us defeat the Afghanis - something the Russians tried to do, but failed. We have the power to strike with lethal accuracy, and there is not a damn thing the target can do about it.
We are coming. Pack your $hit and water your camels.
This comment was made to put Iran's ruling class (Shiite religious nutjobs) on notice. The Iranian president is just reformist window dressing for what remains a radical Shiite movement. The students may be sincere, but have no real clout. The words in the SOTU message were carefully measured. After all, this was the first SOTU that was broadcast in many Middle Eastern nations.
This was a message for the American people... and for those who seek to harm us.
In recent years, Iran has watched us utterly destroy Iraq with ease (something they could not do in years of armed conflict). Iran also watched us defeat the Afghanis - something the Russians tried to do, but failed. We have the power to strike with lethal accuracy, and there is not a damn thing the target can do about it.
We are coming. Pack your $hit and water your camels.
SagaLore
Elite Member
- Dec 18, 2001
- 24,036
- 21
- 81
<< Before the Bush's SOTU address, Iran's hardliners' grip on power were loosening. Now with his "Axis of evil" comment, Bush has done what those hardliners counldn't do themselves: solidify their grip on power. Bush has effectively reversed the reformist pendulum in Iran. I wonder which one of our "bright" speechwriters got that great idea. Now, the entire Iran is chanting Death to America. So much for bring democracy to IRAN. If this is the "superior" REPUBLICAN foreign policy, the conservative warmongers will get their WWIII soon. I support a strong military, but that doesn't mean we go around pissing countries off and putting our troops in danger. >>
Conservative Warmongers? So our President should suck everyone's *$&#@ because that's the "peace-loving" way?
Democrat non-reality fluff. They doom the world by bending over backwards and taking it up the rear. There was no reform if all it took was one sentence, wise people aren't that stupid. It's this emotional war-totalitarianism we're trying to stop, not promote. When you watch a football game, are you cheering for the Referees instead of a team? You've got good guys versus bad guys - if we really care about what we're fighting for, we should not keep forfeiting to prevent somebody from getting hurt. You can't win "freedom" if the other team is ALREADY war-mongering. This is basic human rights we're fighting for, not a popularity contest.
SagaLore
Elite Member
- Dec 18, 2001
- 24,036
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Modern American Politics:
The Democrats promise you everything.
The Republicans promise you everything AND a tax cut.
:disgust:
Should be more like:
The Democrats promise minority groups, unions, unemployed, and lower income families everythig and tax the hell out of those with money.
The Replublicans don't make promises. But Tax Cuts are nice too.
Both my wife and I are working our butts off to provide ourselves a home, while our checks are minced so families like my wife's live completely off of SSI, welfare, medicare, food stamps, wick, and still get back huge income tax refunds (how?). All of their kids (except my wife) has been in jail at least once, her sister had a kid when she was 16 and now has 3, not married, their house is completely filled with moldy dishes, dirt, and dirty laundary, 20 cats roaming around, and their daily routine is to smoke pot a few times a day (their intelligence reflects this). They are all capable of working but they won't because they would lose their SSI. They intentionally force their kids to get bad grades in school so they can be legally registered as mentally challenged to increase their SSI benefits.
And I know so many other families exactly the same way.
But hey, that's the Democratic way.
There's a reason why Republicans want Tax cuts. If people actually earn the money they work for, more people work, and if the big companies weren't taxed so much they could provide better benefits (in place of free medicare). It's an economic reality. At least to those who know what they're talking about.
The Democrats promise you everything.
The Republicans promise you everything AND a tax cut.
:disgust:
Should be more like:
The Democrats promise minority groups, unions, unemployed, and lower income families everythig and tax the hell out of those with money.
The Replublicans don't make promises. But Tax Cuts are nice too.
Both my wife and I are working our butts off to provide ourselves a home, while our checks are minced so families like my wife's live completely off of SSI, welfare, medicare, food stamps, wick, and still get back huge income tax refunds (how?). All of their kids (except my wife) has been in jail at least once, her sister had a kid when she was 16 and now has 3, not married, their house is completely filled with moldy dishes, dirt, and dirty laundary, 20 cats roaming around, and their daily routine is to smoke pot a few times a day (their intelligence reflects this). They are all capable of working but they won't because they would lose their SSI. They intentionally force their kids to get bad grades in school so they can be legally registered as mentally challenged to increase their SSI benefits.
And I know so many other families exactly the same way.
But hey, that's the Democratic way.
There's a reason why Republicans want Tax cuts. If people actually earn the money they work for, more people work, and if the big companies weren't taxed so much they could provide better benefits (in place of free medicare). It's an economic reality. At least to those who know what they're talking about.
SagaLore
Elite Member
- Dec 18, 2001
- 24,036
- 21
- 81
<< yeah, it was an incredibly foolish thing to say.
this war is no longer about terrorism anymore, it's just a pick and choose your enemies.
aha! this terrorist was one-eigth ________, therefore ________ supports terrorism, let's go bomb the hell out of them
if they've disagreed with us before...hmmm i wonder what we can get out of them before we do so though? >>
I think you're wrong. We're not picking and choosing enemies. It's about Right and Wrong. There is no between. You're either 100% anti-terrorist or 100% pro-terrorist. Perceiving it any other way is a way of watering down reality.
Corn
Diamond Member
- Nov 12, 1999
- 6,389
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<< They intentionally force their kids to get bad grades in school so they can be legally registered as mentally challenged to increase their SSI benefits. >>
My god does that piss me off. Ruining their children's chances of a normal life so they can padd their wallet. I would report them to Social Services, this is child abuse!!!!!!!!
dUMB bUSH,
Why say n e thign at all?
Attack without notice or PR. Red Necks just cannot stop loud mouthing.
Anyways, Americans just made thousands of new enemies after the speech.
All ready to blow up sh it!!!!!!!!
Save the world.
Why say n e thign at all?
Attack without notice or PR. Red Necks just cannot stop loud mouthing.
Anyways, Americans just made thousands of new enemies after the speech.
All ready to blow up sh it!!!!!!!!
Save the world.
I'll get back to you on this...gotta go to class
I will say this though...your little statement there sounds a lot like those Democrats who were crying and crying about how Bush let out a self-fulfilling prophecy by criticizing the economy while he was campaigning for President.
I will say this though...your little statement there sounds a lot like those Democrats who were crying and crying about how Bush let out a self-fulfilling prophecy by criticizing the economy while he was campaigning for President.
<< yeah, it was an incredibly foolish thing to say.
this war is no longer about terrorism anymore, it's just a pick and choose your enemies.
aha! this terrorist was one-eigth ________, therefore ________ supports terrorism, let's go bomb the hell out of them
if they've disagreed with us before...hmmm i wonder what we can get out of them before we do so though? >>
Well, that's a pretty narrow-minded thing to say. I'm not gonna say I know everything about the Middle East or US foreign policy but there's more to it than that.
Face it, a single sentence from a single individual could never turn back an entire decade of REAL reform in any country. All Bush's statement did was drive semi-latent anti-American sentiment to the surface by removing the thin veil of "Iranian reform". Iran has hated the US for ages and will continue to do so in the immediate future.
Americans are always so eager to delude themselves (as the Clinton administration did) into believing that the entire world loves us. If a country is superficially friendly towards the US then nobody really wants to question that and look beneath the surface. But of course, just because someone is not openly cursing you doesn't mean they are not secretly resentful and plotting your downfall in private, as Iran was. As brutally tactless as Bush's comments are, I do applaud him for instantly destroying this pathetic charade that Iran was playing. Their reformation was clearly a fraud (if it was capable of being so easily reversed) and now it has been exposed as such. They are not a democracy and they are not a friend of the West. Period.
Americans are always so eager to delude themselves (as the Clinton administration did) into believing that the entire world loves us. If a country is superficially friendly towards the US then nobody really wants to question that and look beneath the surface. But of course, just because someone is not openly cursing you doesn't mean they are not secretly resentful and plotting your downfall in private, as Iran was. As brutally tactless as Bush's comments are, I do applaud him for instantly destroying this pathetic charade that Iran was playing. Their reformation was clearly a fraud (if it was capable of being so easily reversed) and now it has been exposed as such. They are not a democracy and they are not a friend of the West. Period.
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