In NYC more African America babies are aborted than born.

Jan 12, 2005
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#1
I didn't see data for today, but for some recent years at least this is true. Not sure the trend would be dramatically different just a few short years later. Though in the roaring Trump economy maybe more African American mothers don't feel so helpless about supporting a child? Anyway...



https://www.politifact.com/texas/st...a-meyer-says-more-black-babies-are-aborted-n/

https://www.lifenews.com/2018/07/12...city-are-killed-in-abortions-than-born-alive/


Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger was a proud proponent of eugenics and hung out with KKK members. I see her work lives today through leftist-championed org Planned Parenthood, and especially in this blue leaning city. I'm not a hardliner anti-abortion type, at least not when we're talking about early term abortion (not late term, that should be outlawed). But, this stat is surprising and a sad commentary on the state of our country.
 
Nov 4, 2004
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#2
If you actually read the politifact article, the stat isn't shocking at all.

Edit: Lol, I especially like the speculation edit about people feeling less helpless in the current economy. Yes slow, you really know those NYCer's
 
Jan 12, 2005
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#3
If you actually read the political article, the stat isn't shocking at all.

That stat should be shocking. It was surprising to me. And as I said, a pretty sad commentary.
 
Nov 4, 2004
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That stat should be shocking. It was surprising to me. And as I said, a pretty sad commentary.
Well, it's not....it may be a surprise to you, but it's not shocking for many who kinda follow this stuff. It's certainly in the news from time to time, mostly when the numbers are wielded for political gains, not from actual genuine concern.

Besides, I thought you'd be happy that a minority group painted by the right as lazy government moochers popping out kids to get more government money turned out to be false.

And for someone who doesn't take a "hard line" stance on abortion, you certainly post about it quite a bit. I'd imagine it's the gotcha game you want to play with liberals that drives this.
 
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allisolm

Elite Member
Administrator
Jan 2, 2001
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#5
And why is this such a sad commentary on the state of our country when, according to your own link, it is not true of the country?

"Nationally, African American women had a higher rate of abortion than whites, Hispanics or Asians, according to 2013 figures. Even so, black women gave birth more than they terminated pregnancies that year."

Or from another source:

"In 2015, there were an estimated 9,168,000 Black American women in their childbearing years between age 15 and 44 which make up around 14% of all women in that age group in the United States of America.

These women experienced:
Births: 621,679
Abortions: 423,000"


https://www.urbancure.org/blog/post...ingle-negative-force-on-black-american-growth (urbancure.org is a conservative website)
 
Nov 4, 2004
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nvm
 
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interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
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#7
That's still a high rate of abortions. If you are a person who is at all conflicted about the morality of abortion, it's pretty shocking. But putting that aside, it is illustrative of a lot of unwanted pregnancies and missed opportunity for contraceptive use. I would guess interventions on health literacy and removal of barriers to contraceptive use would be cost effective and produce better outcomes.
 
Jun 30, 2003
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That's still a high rate of abortions. If you are a person who is at all conflicted about the morality of abortion, it's pretty shocking. But putting that aside, it is illustrative of a lot of unwanted pregnancies and missed opportunity for contraceptive use. I would guess interventions on health literacy and removal of barriers to contraceptive use would be cost effective and produce better outcomes.
Good luck getting something sensible like that done in the US. It's absolutely what's needed though.
 

sportage

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2008
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#9
Women have abortions for good reason, at least for them.
Number one reason I'd expect would be financial situation, especially in New York.
Second would be the lack of commitment by the father. Which could also be explained by the fathers financial situation.
This abortion crap is nonsense.
What conservatives want people to believe is that minorities and liberals do all the aborting.
And they do it for some kind of sport. Sport, like the hunting of endangered species. Something the Trump family enjoys pursuing.
No one enjoys abortion, and no it is not some liberal sport.
Women that find themselves PG have good reason for that decision to abort. And I'd guess the top two reasons would be financial, then lack of commitment... by the father.
So.... what is a single woman expecting to do?
The logical solution from society would be to pay that women her living expenses while PG, and continue that taxpayer funded financial help for the necessary years following.
However necessary to ensure a stable home for both the mother and child.

The part two of the solution no one ever wants to talk about.
Especially those conservative pro-lifers.
They don't mind lecturing to those women that have good cause to abort, but talk about taxes and handouts and food stamps and housing assistance, well.... those conservatives don't want to hear about that. That subject is always DOA.
They think like Trump's Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross thought concerning furrowed workers. Why can't they just hit up mom and dad for the money, or get a bank loan?
Conservatives think the same about women and abortion.
Why don't these single moms to be just hit up mom and dad for the financial help, or for a place to live, and for the food to feed the child?

In other words, pro-lifers and conservatives are totally clueless and unrealistic.
They think that all women have a magical support system that women can tap into.
No one is pro-abortion nor pro-choice. What they are is simply pro-realistic.
I think the entire abortion subject should be banned from discussion, and banned from any legal challenge state or federal unless massive tax hikes are part of the limit/ban abortion solution.
We're talking huge tax hikes for funding to feed those families and to house those kids.
Until right wingers and pro-lifers are willing to support that, the money part, then I don't want to hear from any of them or their anal opinions.
I know a lot of those so called pro-lifers and conservatives.
And all of them do nothing but gripe about handouts to the poor and needy. Still, they insist that those women had damn well better give birth to that baby.
Insisting on the baby, while rejecting the financial support.
Well, it just doesn't work that way.
 
Jan 12, 2005
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Well, it's not....it may be a surprise to you, but it's not shocking for many who kinda follow this stuff. It's certainly in the news from time to time, mostly when the numbers are wielded for political gains, not from actual genuine concern.

Besides, I thought you'd be happy that a minority group painted by the right as lazy government moochers popping out kids to get more government money turned out to be false.

And for someone who doesn't take a "hard line" stance on abortion, you certainly post about it quite a bit. I'd imagine it's the gotcha game you want to play with liberals that drives this.

It was surprising to me, I didn't realize how far the left pushed this eugenics line. Why is this a point of contention with you? I did not realize that there were that number of abortions in the African American community, at least in NYC. It was a surprise to me. Makes me wonder how the numbers stack up in other big blue cities.

I have been clear in my stance on abortion, I understand why it is and should be legal, at least up to a point in the pregnancy. Ideally we'd live in a world where it isn't needed, I know that isn't practical, certainly at least not today, but this is a sad commentary on our society today. I believe I've started all of two threads on abortion, don't be melodramatic about it pretending I post "quite a bit" about it.
 
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Jan 12, 2005
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#11
And why is this such a sad commentary on the state of our country when, according to your own link, it is not true of the country?

"Nationally, African American women had a higher rate of abortion than whites, Hispanics or Asians, according to 2013 figures. Even so, black women gave birth more than they terminated pregnancies that year."

Or from another source:

"In 2015, there were an estimated 9,168,000 Black American women in their childbearing years between age 15 and 44 which make up around 14% of all women in that age group in the United States of America.

These women experienced:
Births: 621,679
Abortions: 423,000"


https://www.urbancure.org/blog/post...ingle-negative-force-on-black-american-growth (urbancure.org is a conservative website)

Wow... that's still a lot of abortions compared to live births. Wonder why the trend is so much higher in a blue city like NYC? <ponders>
 
Jan 12, 2005
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#12
That's still a high rate of abortions. If you are a person who is at all conflicted about the morality of abortion, it's pretty shocking. But putting that aside, it is illustrative of a lot of unwanted pregnancies and missed opportunity for contraceptive use. I would guess interventions on health literacy and removal of barriers to contraceptive use would be cost effective and produce better outcomes.

What barriers to contraceptives do you think are in place? Do you really think this is an education issue? I think people are just lazy and have been taught by the left that there are not consequences for actions, society will handle it on their behalf. You can get name brand condoms from Amazon for ~$17/box of 100. That's $.17 a rubber. I don't think access, education, or affordability is the issue, but that people have been conditioned to shrug off responsibility.
 
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Nov 8, 2012
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#13
How much is an abortion from planned parenthood anyways? If it's just "here take this pill" and a $25 copay or something I can see why people don't use contraception... A box of condoms is like $15 at walgreens heh.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
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#14
It was surprising to me, I didn't realize how far the left pushed this eugenics line.
Perhaps you'd care to explain how that works in a world where women are free to choose. Please link to modern "Leftist" sources advocating Eugenics.
 

allisolm

Elite Member
Administrator
Jan 2, 2001
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#16
I think people are just lazy and have been taught by the left that there are not consequences for actions, society will handle it on their behalf.
I think that your thinking is just plain wrong.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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#18
How much is an abortion from planned parenthood anyways? If it's just "here take this pill" and a $25 copay or something I can see why people don't use contraception... A box of condoms is like $15 at walgreens heh.
Condoms are free at planned parenthood.
 
Jan 12, 2005
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#19
Perhaps you'd care to explain how that works in a world where women are free to choose. Please link to modern "Leftist" sources advocating Eugenics.

Why do minorities get so many more abortions per capita? Was Margaret Sanger. leftist champion and celebrated founder of Planned Parenthood for or against eugenics?
 
Jan 12, 2005
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#20
Condoms are free at planned parenthood.

And that's great, a good service for them to provide. They're already cheap and readily available, at PP they are free. This isn't a contraception availability issue.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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#22
Why do minorities get so many more abortions per capita? Was Margaret Sanger. leftist champion and celebrated founder of Planned Parenthood for or against eugenics?
She was indeed in favor of eugenics in terms of preventing the transmission of hereditary diseases. She was not of the belief that black people were inferior however, which is what you are attempting to imply. In fact, she enjoyed the support of plenty of prominent members of the black community.

https://www.politifact.com/new-hamp...rgaret-sanger-believe-african-americans-shou/

Sanger "was far ahead of her times in terms of opposing racial segregation," wrote Baker, a history professor at Goucher College, in an email. She worked closely with black leaders to open birth control clinics in Harlem and elsewhere."

Even authors who treat Sanger critically don’t believe she held negative views about African-Americans. Edwin Black wrote a comprehensive history of the eugenics movement, War Against the Weak, and is no fan of the activist’s beliefs. Ultimately, though, he writes, "Sanger was no racist. Nor was she anti-Semitic."
Just more and more lies coming out of you every day. Why are you such a dishonest person?
 
Jan 12, 2005
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#23
Yea, she wanted to sterilize people that weren't up to her standards and was BFF's with high ranking KKK members. Nothing to see here...

"Sanger’s eugenics creed is clearly stated in her speech “My Way to Peace”(1932). The centerpiece of the program is vigorous state use of compulsory sterilization and segregation. The first class of persons targeted for sterilization is made up of people with mental or physical disability. “The first step would be to control the intake and output on morons, mental defectives, epileptics.” A much larger class of undesirables would be forced to choose either sterilization or placement in state work camps. “The second step would be to take an inventory of the second group, such as illiterates, paupers, unemployables, criminals, prostitutes, dope-fiends; classify them in special departments under government medical protection and segregate them on farms and open spaces.” Those segregated in these camps could return to mainstream society if they underwent sterilization and demonstrated good behavior. Sanger estimates that 15 million to 20 million Americans would be targeted in this regime of forced sterilization and concentration camps. In Sanger, the humanitarian dream of a world without poverty and illness has deteriorated into a coercive world where the poor, the disabled and the addicted simply disappear.

Sanger’s eugenics project carried its own racial preoccupation. In a letter of Dec. 10, 1939, to Clarence Gamble (cited here), she explains the nature of her organization’s outreach to the African-American community: “The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don’t want the word to get out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members.” In her autobiography she proudly recounts her address to the women of the Ku Klux Klan in Silver Lake, N.J., in 1926. "

https://www.americamagazine.org/pol...s-eugenicist-why-are-we-still-celebrating-her
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
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#24
Why do minorities get so many more abortions per capita? Was Margaret Sanger. leftist champion and celebrated founder of Planned Parenthood for or against eugenics?
None of that matters in a world where women are free to choose.
 

Ventanni

Golden Member
Jul 25, 2011
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#25
While I am vehemently opposed to abortion, I also recognize that it's a symptom of a problem and not a direct problem in of itself. Abortion is more common in communities that don't value the individual, so things like marriage, the importance of fatherhood, and education levels (and much more) all have an impact on the statistics. Because banning abortion doesn't address any of those issues, women will resort to significantly more dangerous measures to effectively achieve the same result.

If you REALLY want to see abortion rates drop in this country, you have to go after the importance of individual value, and you can't do that by passing laws.
 

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