"In my 22 years of doing visits with children in detention, I've never heard of this level of inhumanity"

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DarthKyrie

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2016
1,533
1,281
146

What a fucking wise and beautiful woman. I'm sure this skank has children too.

Removing aid from the South American countries from which these people came has made it worse.

Cutting them off the American teat should make those brown people want to stay in their home countries. <======= GOP Logic
Maybe those countries can make the people stay home at the point of a gun. <===== GOP wet dream
They need to stay in their own countries, American companies need their cheap labor and their countries natural resources.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
27,274
36,388
136
good god you are filling 4 children's brains with your horrible thought?

I need a drink.


It really speaks to that selective consideration/have it both ways act the religious conservatives can pull off with a straight face, at least to me. They see nothing wrong with say, using scientific methods and data to find NG or oil, but will spurn and dismiss them when it all undermines young earth creationism. Or maybe it's the family values, "think of the innocent children" types seeing this kind of shameful thing on the border and basically saying 'Tough shit' while continuing to support it.

Morally upright hypocrites, this is why no one takes you seriously. Being horrible people isn't going to change it either.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,219
14,905
136
Show me the credentials that make you an authority. I'll wait.

Are you fucking dumb? Did you have trouble reading what I wrote? No where in it did I state that I was an authority on whether or not these "camps" are similar to the Japanese internment camps. I did state that someone who was actually in a Japanese internment camp said they are the same.

So I'll ask you again; what makes you an authority on this? Or, in case you are having trouble understanding the question, what is the basis for your claim?
 
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mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
17,702
9,557
136

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,017
2,854
136
What would you propose?

Chiefly, the resources that are necessary are the courts. That will indirectly aid the detention centers by clearing backlog. Spending more money there is actually more cost effective to improve the condition of these detainees at this time than increasing funding to detention centers. This is something that Trump has openly spoken out against doing and part of the reason for the lack of resolution to our extended government shutdown.

Secondly, asylum seekers are not criminals. They are people awaiting trial for a claim of asylum that, if found appropriate are allowed to remain in the States legally. The law does not compel us to detain them. It does compel us to hear their claim with some expedience, which in fact the Trump administration is failing to enforce much worse than ever. The law grants us the capacity to detain them awaiting trial. So the question is, when should we?

1. There is a question of deterrence. Separation does not deter asylum seeking. This ought to be evident by the increasing rate of border crossings despite current policies. It is also sound in principle, as good evidence shows that harsher punishments for offenses is ineffective at deterrence at all unless the punishment is extremely severe (e.g. death, losing a hand). I'd think what is happening might be classified that way. It would be for me. But of course I'm not fleeing a life-endangering situation in my home country. I guess it's not extremely severe for the people choosing to risk it.

2. So we are left with trying to ascertain what is the risk of people we allow to stay in the country awaiting a hearing and not detained. Principally, show rates for asylum trials are extremely high if not detained. For families, recent data shows about 82% show up for the initial hearing, 76% for all of them. Before Trump ended the FCMP, it was a resounding success, causing 100% adherence to court dates and 99% check-ins with ICE and case managers. So I think funding the FCMP to the point of universality ought to be the principle intervention to improve adherence to court. Obviously the more expedient the hearing, the likelier people will show, so again beefing up the courts is the principle thing to do.

Otherwise, I am OK if you want to detain adults crossing without children but think that it is also unimportant to do so. I am OK with separating families if there is a reason to suspect illegitimacy of the family relation and the children are not young (would need to work together to define the boundaries). I am OK if you want to add some form to enhance tracking people awaiting asylum claims. I am OK if you want to enhance security at the border through ICE agents and methods we have demonstrated as effective in enhancing border security, although that's a much bigger topic. I don't want those things, but I would be more than willing to work together with a goal of decreasing border crossings with interventions that have some reason to think they work.

More realistically, the best things we can do are in the humanitarian and international political sphere. A lot of US decisions have empowered Mexican cartels and oppressive regimes driving people to want to seek asylum and enabling drug trade. But that's a whole lot more complicated to get into and scraping the depths of my knowledge.

Furthermore I know that family separation at the border is as contentious as keeping families together. The site below details most of the complexity with either option, and it is no friend of the Trump administration.

https://immigrationforum.org/article/factsheet-family-separation-at-the-u-s-mexico-border/

I can't find anything on that site that demonstrates anything positive about routinely separating families at the border.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,816
9,026
136
Ahem... that's "Acting" head. This admin doesn't know how to properly staff positions.
Literally as you were typing this, the White House announced Stephanie Grisham will be taking over as White House Comms Director, White House Press Secretary, AND keep her current job as the First Lady's spokeswoman.
 
Jan 25, 2011
16,589
8,671
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Literally as you were typing this, the White House announced Stephanie Grisham will be taking over as White House Comms Director, White House Press Secretary, AND keep her current job as the First Lady's spokeswoman.
When no one from the outside wants anything to do with you you have to start spreading people thin. She's not the only one to be assuming multiple roles and won't be the last.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
Literally as you were typing this, the White House announced Stephanie Grisham will be taking over as White House Comms Director, White House Press Secretary, AND keep her current job as the First Lady's spokeswoman.

I mean 3 paychecks for jobs they want you to not actually do is pretty cool. Id ride that for 2 years.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
I mean 3 paychecks for jobs they want you to not actually do is pretty cool. Id ride that for 2 years.

LMAO...now you got me wondering if that's the case or if it is like the rest of our jobs where they just say ' here take this extra work'.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
LMAO...now you got me wondering if that's the case or if it is like the rest of our jobs where they just say ' here take this extra work'.

Anyone woring for him should be getting paid a lot. They are ruined from working in politics ever again.