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In Muslim countries, Christians are the new target

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4007309,00.html

Car bomb hits church in Egypt, 21 dead
Enraged Christians emerge from Alexandria church following car bomb attack, storm nearby mosque prompting clashes with Muslims. Alexandria governor blames al-Qaeda for blast
News agencies
Published: 01.01.11, 08:13 / Israel News

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A car exploded in front of a Coptic Christian church as worshippers emerged from a New Year's Mass in the Egyptian city of Alexandria early Saturday, killing at least 21 people, officials said.

After the blast, enraged Christians emerging from the church clashed with police and stormed a nearby mosque, prompting fights and volleys of stone throwing with Muslims, police and witnesses said _ a sign of the sectarian anger that has been arising with greater frequency in Egypt.

Nearly 1,000 Christians were attending the Mass at the Saints Church in the Mediterranean port city of Alexandria, said a priest at the church, Father Mena Adel. The service had just ended, and worshippers were leaving the building when the blast went off, about a half-hour after midnight.

"I was inside the church and heard a huge explosion," Adel said. "People's bodies were in flames."

The blast came from a car parked outside the church, but police said they were still investigating whether the car had been rigged with explosives or if a bomb had been placed under it. Witnesses reported seeing the charred chassis of the destroyed car, with the remains of several bodies nearby and dozens wounded.

A statement from the Interior Ministry said the blast occurred just after midnight in front of the church after a service to mark the New Year. It said the blast damaged a mosque near the church and eight Muslims were among the 24 wounded.

Security sources said nine people were killed. Senior Health Ministry official Osama Abdel Moneim later raised the toll to 21 after more bodies were transferred to hospitals.

The ministry said an investigation had begun.

"The preliminary investigation indicates that a car was the reason behind the explosion. It was parked in front of the church and had been assumed to belong to one of the people who often come to the church," said the ministry statement, which was read to Reuters by a ministry official

There was no immediate claim of responsibility for the blast. Alexandria's governor, Adel Labib immediately blamed al-Qaeda, pointing to recent threats by the terror group's branch in Iraq to attack Christians. It was not clear, however, if Labib had firm evidence, and he may have intended more to deny any homegrown Muslim-Christian tensions in Egypt.

"The al-Qaeda organization threatened to attack churches inside Egypt. This has nothing to do with sectarianism," he told state TV.

After the explosion, some Christians from the church clashed with police in anger over the blast. The Christians hurled stones at police and a nearby mosque, chanting, "With our blood and soul, we redeem the cross," the witnesses said.

An AP photographer at the scene said the protesters stormed into the mosque, throwing books inside out onto the street. The protest sparked clashes with Muslims, as both sides began throwing stones and bottles at each other in the streets.

Rising sectarian tension
The attack comes at a time of rising sectarian tension in Egypt and the broader region. In November, hundreds of Christians rioted in the capital, Cairo, smashing cars and windows after police violently stopped the construction of a church. The rare outbreak of Christian unrest in the capital left one person dead.

Christians are believed to make up about 10% of Egypt's mainly Muslim population of nearly 80 million people, and they have grown increasingly vocal in complaints about discrimination. There have been occasional attacks targeting Christians - most notably, in January 2009, seven Christians were killed in a drive-by shooting on a church in southern Egypt during celebrations for the Orthodox Coptic Christmas.

The Saints Church in Alexandria targeting early Saturday also came under attack in April 2006, when a man with a knife stabbed worshippers.

At the same time, al-Qaeda-linked militants have carried out a campaign of attacks against Christians in Iraq, killing 68 in a church siege in October and two more Christians in attacks in Baghdad on Thursday.

The attacks in Iraq have an unusual connection to Egypt. Al-Qaeda in Iraq says it is carrying out the campaign of anti-Christian attacks in the name of two Egyptian Christian women who reportedly converted to Islam in order to get divorces from their husbands. The Coptic Church forbids almost all divorce, meaning leaving the religion is sometimes the only option to escape an abusive or unhappy marriage.


The two women have since been secluded with Coptic Church authorities. Islamic hard-liners in Egypt have held frequent protests in past months, accusing the Church of imprisoning the women and forcing them to renounce Islam and return to Christianity.

Al-Qaeda in Iraq says it is carrying out attacks on Christians in that country until Egyptian Church officials release the two women. The Church denies holding the women against their will.

That comes after the repeated bombings against Christians in Iraq. This comes in addition to Muslim persecution against Hindus, Buddhists and Jews.
Anyone still thinks Islam doesn't wage a holy war against everyone else?
 
Islam as practiced by many (most?) of it's followers is simply incompatible with a modern and/or tolerant society. Sooner or later, in every society where islam gains a significant following there will be religious conflict and violence. I'm certainly no islamic scholar, but the core issue appears to be that it's not enough for followers of islam to do or not do something they think is commanded by allah -- they seem to think everyone else must be forced into the same behavior by violence if needed.

The same can be said for other religions to some degree, but for the most part the followers of other religions have evolved past using violence to impose their religion on others.
 
Terrorists trying to drive wedges into already fragmented sectarian societies, who would have thunk it!


"Anyone still thinks Islam doesn't wage a holy war against everyone else?"


Holy War? Sure, just like that Catholic holy war the IRA waged in Eire. Funny how distinctions between christianity and christian terrorists are so easy to make, yet so hard to extrapolate to another faith with it's own group of crazy fuckers.
 
I find it saddening that when i as a non muslim and agnost on this forum try to show what positive things the Islam has done for humanity during the Islamic golden era. That a large part of our science comes from that era. Granted, millions of people and only a handful enlightened people , but enough to make a difference. I tried to show some history. And what do these idiots do. Prove exactly that that the Islamic golden era is long gone. That all that remains are a bunch of delusional idiots that do not think, just act. That when muslims want to advance in knowledge, they have to study in Asia or in the west. Because knowledge and peace will not be found in the middle east. There in the ME only war and oppression is preached. When looking generally, this is not going to stop. These people will never learn.

Their own way of thinking will be their own destruction.
For the bombers and all of them who commit these crimes.
 
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Funny how distinctions between christianity and christian terrorists are so easy to make, yet so hard to extrapolate to another faith with it's own group of crazy fuckers.

This drivel again?

As soon as you can show me a modern example of Christians all over the world rioting and erupting in violence over a cartoon someone created in some obscure country, there will be a valid comparison. This week they arrested people who wanted to bomb the newspaper who published the cartoons, that's a pretty stark reminder of the differences.
 
This drivel again?

As soon as you can show me a modern example of Christians all over the world rioting and erupting in violence over a cartoon someone created in some obscure country, there will be a valid comparison. This week they arrested people who wanted to bomb the newspaper who published the cartoons, that's a pretty stark reminder of the differences.

I don't have to show you shit, it's you and the rest of your ethnocentric hypocrite buddies who carry the burden of proof - to show that Islam as a whole is waging some kind of holy war against the rest of the world. Extra points if you can explain why there is a need to view American muslims, Australian muslims, secular Turkisk muslims, all the muslims in the UAE, Indonesia, etc, through your "Pakistani madrasa" lens.

Blaming all muslims for the acts of their violent minority makes about as much sense as blaming all christians for the acts of their violent minority. This becomes clear if you've had a chance to travel and actually socialize with other nationalities.

When religion meets fiery politics, shit can and usually does happen. I view the Mohammad cartoon fiascos with the same contempt and incredulity as I do an abortion clinic bombing or assassination, or a Westboro baptist funeral protest.

It's not about comparisons, it's about painting entire populations with a broad brush. I'm sure you'd have a problem with foreigners maligning you over the actions of say, the KKK. You'd probably disagree with a foreigner if they referred to Detroit or New Orleans as perfect examples of life in the USA.

Is it really that hard to understand?
 
Islam as practiced by many (most?) of it's followers is simply incompatible with a modern and/or tolerant society.

And yet, I have known many Muslims in Canada who seem to be doing it just fine. Thus it is not 'simply' incompatible. And yes, when you are going to make sweeping statements then anecdotal evidence IS appropriate.

The same can be said for other religions to some degree, but for the most part the followers of other religions have evolved past using violence to impose their religion on others.

Now you're getting closer. It's not about the religion, it's about which portion of the world became industrialized faster. Which is why Christians in the same parts of the world are also shameful examples of human beings.

Personally, I think the argument should be that religion in general is not compatible with a tolerant society. While they're not blowing people up, I don't find Christians or Muslims in NA to be particularly tolerant. This is why I continually point out that it's NOT about Islam. Christianity in Africa is just as bad as Islam in the ME, and Christians and Muslims in NA don't seem too different to me.
 
This drivel again?

As soon as you can show me a modern example of Christians all over the world rioting and erupting in violence over a cartoon someone created in some obscure country, there will be a valid comparison. This week they arrested people who wanted to bomb the newspaper who published the cartoons, that's a pretty stark reminder of the differences.

I don't have to show you shit, it's you and the rest of your ethnocentric hypocrite buddies who carry the burden of proof - to show that Islam as a whole is waging some kind of holy war against the rest of the world. Extra points if you can explain why there is a need to view American muslims, Australian muslims, secular Turkisk muslims, all the muslims in the UAE, Indonesia, etc, through your "Pakistani madrasa" lens.

Blaming all muslims for the acts of their violent minority makes about as much sense as blaming all christians for the acts of their violent minority. The bible says to love one another, yet there are plenty of self-proclaimed christians who are anything but loving to others. The Koran says let jews and christians do their own thing, just charge them jazia, is it really surprising that fundie elements would ignore that?
When religion meets fiery politics, shit can and usually does happen. I view the Mohammad cartoon fiascos with the same contempt and incredulity as I do an abortion clinic bombing or Dr's assassination, or a Westboro baptist funeral protest.

It's not about comparisons, it's about painting entire populations with a broad brush. I'm sure you'd have a problem with foreigners maligning you over the actions of say, the KKK. You'd probably disagree with a foreigner if they referred to Detroit or New Orleans as perfect examples of life in the USA.

Is it really that hard to understand?
 
And who exactly are those Muslims protecting the churches from? The Jews?


Why are you acting like someone is maintaining that muslim terrorists don't exist?

I guess it's inconvenient to this holy war narrative, but any input on the notion of muslims actually protecting christian places of worship?
 
Holy War? Sure, just like that Catholic holy war the IRA waged in Eire. Funny how distinctions between christianity and christian terrorists are so easy to make, yet so hard to extrapolate to another faith with it's own group of crazy fuckers.

What you fail to understand is that it`s not just a few crazies....it is all of Islam.
Sure in every crazy culture there are few people who see things differently and they try to make a difference, but they usually end up dead.....

In Islam 99% of the people fall ionto the crazy catagory! That includes the people who are not involved in the violence.
Why?
If you do not take a stand against something that is obviously wrong, then I contend that you are part of the problem!

Those bleeding heart Islamic ATOT members who claim it is just a minority are delusional.

There are enough people in Islam that if they honestly and really believed that what Islamic terrorists are doing was wrong they could put a stop to these type things!

As it is, they turn their heads in agreement with the atrocities that are being perpetrated against others in the name of Islam!!
 
What you fail to understand is that it`s not just a few crazies....it is all of Islam.
Sure in every crazy culture there are few people who see things differently and they try to make a difference, but they usually end up dead.....

In Islam 99% of the people fall ionto the crazy catagory! That includes the people who are not involved in the violence.
Why?
If you do not take a stand against something that is obviously wrong, then I contend that you are part of the problem!

Those bleeding heart Islamic ATOT members who claim it is just a minority are delusional.

There are enough people in Islam that if they honestly and really believed that what Islamic terrorists are doing was wrong they could put a stop to these type things!

As it is, they turn their heads in agreement with the atrocities that are being perpetrated against others in the name of Islam!!

I guess you didn't read my post, Indonesia's (world largest Muslim population with 3+ million) Muslims protected the churches so Christians could celebrate Christmas.
 
<Islamic_apologist_voice>

Islam is the religion of peace it's just a few crazy people making the entire religion look bad for their own purposes it's an Israeli/US plot to discredit Islam this is not justified in the Quran...

</Islamic_apologist_voice>

I maintain that Islam does nothing to improve the human condition; the world would be a far better place without it.
 
I guess you didn't read my post, Indonesia's (world largest Muslim population with 3+ million) Muslims protected the churches so Christians could celebrate Christmas.

Actually you mis-read your own link!
Sure Muslims are involved but they are volunteers, recruited by the Government of Indonesia which last time i checked had a very good relationship with the US Government and it is in there best interest to try to accomodate the Christians who live in Indonesia!!

I say -- Good for them!!

But that still doe not negate the fact that in the Middle East you have the vast majority of islamic people turning there heads in total agreement with the others who are attacking people of other faiths...etc....

yet out of those 3+ million people who you say are so peaceful why do they volunteers
to protect the tradition of christmas for Christians??

I will say after re-reading the article it looks like you have found one of the truly cool exceptions to what I stated!!

All of Indonesia needs to be commended!!
 
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X Religion says, "Look at Religion Y's atrocities!"

Y Religion says, "Look at Religion X's atrocities!"

The wise man says, "Look at Religion's atrocities!"


Don't be stupid.
 
The Jews, when they managed to remove all of them from the Arab states they turned against each other. Now they are going after Christians, a heart warming display of unity.



But i'm always being told that Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance.
 
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