In hindsight, how would you have changed the design of the current gen consoles?

insertcarehere

Senior member
Jan 17, 2013
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Now that the current generation is drawing to a close and we have seen how the console manufacturers have fared, I thought it would be nice to do a fun little thought experiment:

If you can go back in time, how would you have changed the design/launch of the current gen consoles?

I'll start the ball rolling:
X360
  • Delay launch by a year to hopefully nip RROD issues in the bud
  • Maybe increase RAM amount to 1GB? (Seriously not much seemed to need changing with the X360 design)
PS3 (Assuming still implementing Cell design in some way)
  • Change the Cell processor to a 2 PPE, 4 SPE design running at 2.5ghz+, this will increase the general processing power in the PS3 (lacking compared to X360), combined with the GPU change below, will also decrease reliance on Cell for graphics tasks, which was very difficult for developers to use.
  • Instead of the gimped G71 that is the RSX, work with Nvidia to produce some derivative of the G80 as the GPU, not saying put a 8800 GTX in there, but a stripped down 64-80sp part would have been much more competitive with the Xenos as a GPU than the RSX.
  • Unified memory architecture
  • Ditch Blu-ray/make it an optional extra, this was the main reason the PS3 cost so much to make, and was sold at a massive loss for a very high price, leading to a huge loss in market share. Sure, Sony won the format war because of it, but considering that digital distribution models are taking over, is it really worth it?
Wii
  • Change the GPU to be something like a shrunk NV43/RV410 (6600/x700), maybe add the original GC GPU for BC purposes. While this would hurt short term profitability for Nintendo, this move will mean that the Wii could at least appear to be technically in the ball park of the other consoles, before HDTVs were widespread anyway. More importantly, giving a chance for Nintendo developers to develop on "modern" programmable shader architecture would have been very valuable experience for the inevitable transition later on. (The difficulties in HD development faced by Nintendo right now for the Wii U is at least partially due to a lack of such experience).
  • Add more VRAM, to maybe something like 128MB, would have helped to promote the idea of "technical parity" mentioned above.
 

lamedude

Golden Member
Jan 14, 2011
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I would've kept using lead solder on the 360 and delayed the EU release instead. The Xbox was never going to make money and needed to die ASAP. Single SKU or at least HDD on all of them, and since I hate that huge power brick an internal PSU.
PS2 sales were still good so Sony could've waited if they didn't mind jeopardizing the HD war. I would've waited for 65nm, use G84 or similar and maybe a OoO PPE on Cell. I would keep BD since the blue diode shortage would be over by then.
Not sure about Wii. The cheap hardware made N a lot of $.
 

Midwayman

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
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I just wish they had said SDTV not supported. legacy support held UI back. Granted in 2005 that probably wouldn't have been a great idea, but it was my biggest pet peeve.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
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I just wish they had said SDTV not supported. legacy support held UI back. Granted in 2005 that probably wouldn't have been a great idea, but it was my biggest pet peeve.

This. That is what of Apple's strong points. They are not afraid to cut legacy technology or support.
 

sweenish

Diamond Member
May 21, 2013
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The 360 needed to have a HDD in all consoles.

I don't think the playstation won the war for blu-ray. I think Disney-exclusivity and "stronger" DRM won it for blu. It helped that it is the superior format.
 
Mar 11, 2004
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Actually if Sony had waited for G80 there's a good chance they would have been hit with a defect similar to the 360, since nVidia had issues with G80 due to that same problem.
 

2is

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2012
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PS3 having more memory could have been a game changer. All the developer comments I come across are always talking about how to manage the minuscule amount of RAM it has.
 

insertcarehere

Senior member
Jan 17, 2013
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Actually if Sony had waited for G80 there's a good chance they would have been hit with a defect similar to the 360, since nVidia had issues with G80 due to that same problem.

Isn't that due more to the implementation of the chip in the 8600m gs and gt than any problems with the chip itself?, I didn't hear about any problems with the rest of the geforce 8 series.
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
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PS3 was expensive because it was originally two consoles in one with two discrete sets of ASICs for both PS3 and PS2. And unlike PS2+PS1, the PS2 EE/GS was worthless to the PS3 and not accessible in PS3 mode. At least with PS2 the PS1 hardware functioned as the IOP and was a very integral part of the PS2 in PS2 mode.
 

TakeNoPrisoners

Platinum Member
Jun 3, 2011
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Blu ray drive on the Xbox 360 and no models without a HDD. Those two things would have made the Xbox and the PS3 pretty much indistinguishable.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
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PS3 was expensive because it was originally two consoles in one with two discrete sets of ASICs for both PS3 and PS2. And unlike PS2+PS1, the PS2 EE/GS was worthless to the PS3 and not accessible in PS3 mode. At least with PS2 the PS1 hardware functioned as the IOP and was a very integral part of the PS2 in PS2 mode.

you forgot about the bluray drive too. that kept the cost high.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
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Isn't that due more to the implementation of the chip in the 8600m gs and gt than any problems with the chip itself?, I didn't hear about any problems with the rest of the geforce 8 series.

It was an industry-wide problem with crap solder, not a particular gpu that was the culprit.

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=360684 etc. Any time that reflow/baking fixes a gpu, you know that poor solder was the reason it failed.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
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Maybe increase RAM amount to 1GB? (Seriously not much seemed to need changing with the X360 design)

A ton of things were needed to the 360's design. RROD might seem like "one" problem, but countless different problems with the rushed design lead to it. There were multiple paths to red ring.

-Crap thermal paste
-REALLY tiny fans
-Sizzling hot GPU is buried RIGHT underneath the disc drive, choking air flow.
-cheap PCB motherboard would be bent/warped just enough to prevent proper cpu/gpu contact.

Most of these issues could have been solved for a fraction of the money Microsoft spent in extending the 360 Fat warranty to three years.
 

dagamer34

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2005
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A ton of things were needed to the 360's design. RROD might seem like "one" problem, but countless different problems with the rushed design lead to it. There were multiple paths to red ring.

-Crap thermal paste
-REALLY tiny fans
-Sizzling hot GPU is buried RIGHT underneath the disc drive, choking air flow.
-cheap PCB motherboard would be bent/warped just enough to prevent proper cpu/gpu contact.

Most of these issues could have been solved for a fraction of the money Microsoft spent in extending the 360 Fat warranty to three years.

Well, the 360 was their first truly custom design since the first Xbox was literally a PC in a box (and sized like one too). They made some serious mistakes that took them 5 years to solve. However, it does amaze me that practically every 360 I see is the Slim, which means it's been bought in the last 3 years. Remarkable really when generations are usually only 5 years old.
 

insertcarehere

Senior member
Jan 17, 2013
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Not sure about Wii. The cheap hardware made N a lot of $.

I would think that, even for the Wii, the majority of the money made would have been from the games (Avg 9 per console), therefore I am not that sure moving to a (slightly) more contemporary architecture would have hurt Nintendo's bottom line significantly (they had the DS afterall). Besides, the developers might be more prepared for the HD transition, which would have to happen eventually, even for Nintendo.
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
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you forgot about the bluray drive too. that kept the cost high.

If it did it was artificial. Bluray drive isn't that much more than a DVD or CD drive in reality. Optical drives are cheap and disposable. The new laser MIGHT have increased cost slightly at first, otherwise it's the same disposable plastic tray and electric motor that hasn't cost more than a nickel to make in over a decade.
 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
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Blu ray drive on the Xbox 360 and no models without a HDD. Those two things would have made the Xbox and the PS3 pretty much indistinguishable.

Didn't the xbox release early enough that blu-ray wasn't even available, let alone affordable?
 

insertcarehere

Senior member
Jan 17, 2013
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I
PS2 sales were still good so Sony could've waited if they didn't mind jeopardizing the HD war. I would've waited for 65nm, use G84 or similar and maybe a OoO PPE on Cell. I would keep BD since the blue diode shortage would be over by then.

That would be very risky, but I can see it ultimately working if Sony was willing to take a good amount of losses (which they were):

Ditch the PS2 BC, stripped G92 (96/112sp), 65nm cell with less SPEs/more PPEs, 1GB Ram for $349/$449 in holiday 2007 would've made the X360 look positively ancient in comparison, especially if it got crysis as a console "exclusive" (it would've been in position to do so).
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
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If it did it was artificial. Bluray drive isn't that much more than a DVD or CD drive in reality. Optical drives are cheap and disposable. The new laser MIGHT have increased cost slightly at first, otherwise it's the same disposable plastic tray and electric motor that hasn't cost more than a nickel to make in over a decade.

The lasers were rather expensive for quite awhile. And Sony was blocking them from making combo (Blu-ray / HD DVD) drives for awhile as well, as both used the same laser. I remember buying an early combo drive for PC and it was $100 OEM.

Plus, at release, the PS3 was the cheapest Blu-ray player, and the format wars wasn't even close to being decided yet. MS made the choice to not pick a dog in the fight in their console, but have an add-on. They even stated, that if HD DVD failed, they would consider a Blu-ray add-on. Guess that never happened though. =(
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
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Physical or software changes?

Frankly, I find the new tile interface on the 360 kind of annoying. In some respects it's OK, the design is clean, looks good. But the way it handles lists is atrocious. Looking through lists of add-ons for a game used to be simple, now you have to wade through one horizontal scrolling screen after another. It's very unintuitive. It'd be nice to at least get the option to change views: vertical text list or tile with preview. It's not like Windows Explorer hasn't been giving us that option for decades...
 

Mushkins

Golden Member
Feb 11, 2013
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More account-based features, especially saved games. The brilliant part of every previous console generation was that the hardware was entirely user-agnostic. I could go to any friends house with my memory card and my game disk and play just like I was at home. Better yet, I could go *use the other TV/System* if my girlfriend was using the one in the living room.

To this day moving an account and any or all of your saved games from one PS3/360 to another is an awkward and time consuming affair, and some saved games flat out cannot be moved to another console or a USB stick because of publisher DRM. They got a little better more recently, but its still awkward and most of the mobility features are restricted to gold/psn+ membership users.

In the next generation I better be able to keep my saved games in the cloud AND/OR locally, sit down at any PS4/XBOne, log in and play. If my hardware dies, I should be able to replace it and be 100% back up and running in the time it takes to normally set up a new console, none of this convoluted "call microsoft for a special code to reactivate your hardware locked DLC" crap. You want to make these next consoles about online presence and the idea of the user account? DONT HALFASS IT WHERE IT MATTERS. They can give me gigs of space for signing up for a free Skydrive, but they cant spare 50MB for five years worth of saved games unless I pay for Gold?
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,024
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In the next generation I better be able to keep my saved games in the cloud AND/OR locally, sit down at any PS4/XBOne, log in and play. If my hardware dies, I should be able to replace it and be 100% back up and running in the time it takes to normally set up a new console, none of this convoluted "call microsoft for a special code to reactivate your hardware locked DLC" crap. You want to make these next consoles about online presence and the idea of the user account? DONT HALFASS IT WHERE IT MATTERS. They can give me gigs of space for signing up for a free Skydrive, but they cant spare 50MB for five years worth of saved games unless I pay for Gold?

you can already save games to the cloud. you have to have ps+ or xbl gold to do so though, and i'm pretty sure that is the same thing that will be happening with ps4 and x1.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
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you can already save games to the cloud. you have to have ps+ or xbl gold to do so though, and i'm pretty sure that is the same thing that will be happening with ps4 and x1.

This is true. Every new PS3 game I've played recently asked me if I want to setup online saves.
 

Midwayman

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
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Didn't the xbox release early enough that blu-ray wasn't even available, let alone affordable?

Pretty much. I think Sony probably made the wrong choice on blu-ray as well. It made their console way too expensive at launch and with all the cross platform titles had limited benefit. If their parent company hadn't been in a fight to establish it as the clear winner at the time it probably wouldn't have happened.