"In Defense of Sansa Stark"

Kushina

Golden Member
Nov 22, 2010
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Here you go you quote loving bastards

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Sansa Stark must be one of the most hated characters in A Song of Ice and Fire. The vitriol levelled against her is often frightening in its intensity, surpassing that for actually horrific characters like Joffrey and Ramsey Bolton. Her crime? The unforgivable fact that she is a pre-teen girl.

As a massive fan of Sansa, even I must admit that she is difficult to like at first. She’s spoilt and a bit bratty. She fights with her fan-favorite sister and trusts characters who the reader knows are completely untrustworthy. She is hopelessly naive and lost in dreams of pretty princes and dashing knights. She acts, for all intents and purposes, like the eleven year old girl that she is. Most of us were pretty darn unbearable to older people at that age (and that’s fine, because they were also pretty unbearable to us). Robb and Jon, although older than Sansa, are similarly misguided and bratty, with Jon’s constant “poor me, I deserve so much more” attitude at the Wall, and Robb’s clumsy attempts at being the Lord of Winterfell. But these mistakes are only reprehensible to readers when they come from a girl, interested in girly things and making girly mistakes. Because viewers have been taught that “girly“ is automatically bad.

I love bad-ass, sword-wielding heroines as much as the next person (Arya and Brienne are two of my other favorite characters in anything ever), but the focus on this sort of female character — the oft-cited “strong female character” — seems to suggest that femininity is still bad, and that women can only be strong by adopting stereotypically male roles and attitudes. There’s nothing wrong with Arya declaring that being a Lady does not suit her and forging her own path, but saying that all female characters must take this attitude is as sexist and dismissive as saying that all female characters must be weak and take a backseat in events. Femininity is not bad, just as masculinity is not necessarily good.

Sansa plays an important role in the narrative, because she shows how societal expectations of women completely screw them over. She believes in everything that her parents and her septa have taught her. She believes in stories, and she believes that the greatest thing she can do is marry the prince (who will, of course, be chivalrous and honorable and handsome and kind) and have his children. She has spent her life in the cold castle of the North, dreaming of stories of tournaments and beauty in the south. Because people want her to be that way. That is how they think the ideal young woman should be. And it almost destroys her. Worse, it brings the reader’s hatred down on her, because even though women are told they are only “good” if they fit into this role, the role itself is seen as weak, manipulative, stupid and generally inferior. It is the Catch 22 of being a woman, both in Westeros and in our own world: no matter what you do, you are criticized, especially if you don’t act like Arya Stark and fight to become “one of the boys.” And so some “fans” of the series declare that they wish Sansa would get raped, a woman’s punishment for daring to act how she has been taught. For daring to act feminine, and making mistakes while doing so.

And all this hatred misses the fact that Sansa is one of the strongest individuals in the entire series. In a world where people drop like flies, in an abusive situation that would break so many people, Sansa survives. Sansa endures. She stays strong, and she never gives up. As Brienne says to Catelyn, she has a “woman’s courage.” She learns how to play the game. She wears her courtesy for her armor, and she listens, and she adapts, and she keeps her cards close to her chest. She learns how to smile and curtsey and use her words to keep going long after other, older, more experienced players, including her father, are destroyed. But she will not kneel. She will not weaken. She remains strong, and she remains determined, because the North remembers, and her day will come. Her “woman’s courage” keeps her alive and in the game where characters like Arya would not last five minutes.

Most impressive of all, Sansa maintains one key part of her personality that others might dismiss as “weak” or “feminine”: her kindness. She manages to be brave and gentle and caring, despite the trauma she goes through. She shows love and affection to little Robert and to Tommen. She puts herself at risk to save Ser Dontos, using her words and her courtesy to trick Joffrey into doing as she desires. She cares for and calms the people of King’s Landing during the Battle of the Blackwater, despite the fact that she is so young and so inexperienced and few of them have ever done anything to help her. She knows that if she were Queen, she would make the people love her, because she cares about other people, even when her own life is torn apart.

Traditional femininity is not innately inferior. It has its own kind of strength and its own kind of power, and Sansa Stark demonstrates that better than any other character I’ve encountered. She is not fierce or rebellious. She is not ruthless or brutal. But she is strong. She is a survivor. And that should not be dismissed.

I think the OP is defensive and misguided by her emotions. Also if you reply please mention if you've watched Game of Thrones and how well you know Sansa.

http://cassandraclare.tumblr.com/post/25580079772/in-defense-of-sansa-stark-sansa-stark-must-be-one
 
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clamum

Lifer
Feb 13, 2003
26,252
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I admit I was annoyed by her, not because she was a female or feminine, just because she seemed so stupid and naive, I guess. But she is just a child (11 years old? I figured she was at least 14) and most are like that (including myself at that age). I didn't have a seething hatred for her (people wanted her to get raped? good lord) though. I should say I only watched the show, not read the books.

But I also realized that she was certainly strong in a quiet sort of way and was able to stay alive and stay in more or less one piece, physically and emotionally, throughout the show.

I don't really agree with the authors quote,
...but the focus on this sort of female character — the oft-cited "strong female character" — seems to suggest that femininity is still bad, and that women can only be strong by adopting stereotypically male roles and attitudes
Margaery Tyrell, Catelyn Stark, Talisa Stark :)wub:), Olenna Tyrell, Melisandre, and others are all females I would consider strong in various ways but do not follow stereotypical male roles and attitudes.

Oh, I just remembered a female that's way worse than Sansa: Lysa Arryn. That busted bitch can perish in a conflagration.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,273
4,521
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But she is just a child (11 years old? I figured she was at least 14) and most are like that (including myself at that age).

This is one of the problems with her in the TV series, she is portrayed in that series she is at least 17 and probably older, even while people say she is younger. Her bearing does not show a child, she never looks or acts like an 11 year old.

I don't hate Sansa, I just think that most of the time on screen with her is boring. Mostly because her character is a MacGuffin. She has no real plot of her own. She is a object for a bunch of other people to maneuver and contest for. And for her part she just sits there and hopes to not be noticed while others fight to own her. I don't hate her character for this, but I don't think it is entertaining either.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,260
5,300
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Here you go you quote loving bastards



I think the OP is defensive and misguided by her emotions. Also if you reply please mention if you've watched Game of Thrones and how well you know Sansa.

http://cassandraclare.tumblr.com/post/25580079772/in-defense-of-sansa-stark-sansa-stark-must-be-one



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This post has been posted by someone who has read the books and watched the series.
Also posted by someone think that Sophie Turners portrayal of Sansa is not up to the level as some of the other stronger actors and writing on the show.
As for the books, her chapters were not the strongest.
 
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pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
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This is one of the problems with her in the TV series, she is portrayed in that series she is at least 17 and probably older, even while people say she is younger. Her bearing does not show a child, she never looks or acts like an 11 year old.

I don't hate Sansa, I just think that most of the time on screen with her is boring. Mostly because her character is a MacGuffin. She has no real plot of her own. She is a object for a bunch of other people to maneuver and contest for. And for her part she just sits there and hopes to not be noticed while others fight to own her. I don't hate her character for this, but I don't think it is entertaining either.

Sophie Turner is one of the taller actors on the show.
As actress, she is surrounded by very talented expressive actors who have better story lines.
Her character has potential (based on what I've read in the books) but as of now she is overshadowed.
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
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She's an extremely sheltered 11 year old girl at the start that
gets dumped into an abusive family/threatening betrothal that murdered her father/unfulfilled marriage/and finally defacto-bastardized
... How do people expect her to act? She's the normal kid reacting to the crap around her unlike Arya who is very weird. I don't really like her as a character, but I don't hate her either (I only read the books (almost done with four)). I don't think you would appreciate the other characters without her, and who knows maybe she'll become something better or maybe she'll become something worse; doesn't really matter.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,273
4,521
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Sophie Turner is one of the taller actors on the show.
As actress, she is surrounded by very talented expressive actors who have better story lines.
Her character has potential (based on what I've read in the books) but as of now she is overshadowed.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing the Actress. She is acting the role she was given. It is GRRM (and to some extent the writers and director) that have made Sansa a 17 year old that everyone refers to as an 11 year old.
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
126
I think her role in the show is pretty neat. Here is this storybook princess in a more realistic and gritty kingdom and its awesome.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing the Actress. She is acting the role she was given. It is GRRM (and to some extent the writers and director) that have made Sansa a 17 year old that everyone refers to as an 11 year old.

In the books everyone is a lot younger.
Jon and Rob start off at 14, Eddard Stark is mid 30's, Arya is 9 or 10.
 

CrackRabbit

Lifer
Mar 30, 2001
16,642
62
91
In the books everyone is a lot younger.
Jon and Rob start off at 14, Eddard Stark is mid 30's, Arya is 9 or 10.

My general rule for translating the books to the series is take everyone's age in the book and add 3 or 4.
It actually makes the books much more believable if you do.
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,224
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing the Actress. She is acting the role she was given. It is GRRM (and to some extent the writers and director) that have made Sansa a 17 year old that everyone refers to as an 11 year old.

Yeah, but she acts like she has an 11 year old's intelligence. Seriously.

When I started watching the series a while ago, I told my friend that I was praying Joffrey bit it, and SOON, because he was an annoying ass. I think it took me a handful of episodes to feel the same way about Sansa. She's pointless, and every time she comes on screen I just stare at the ceiling because the next 30 minutes of the show is going to be boring as hell.