In case you think Communism works

[Proletariat]

Communism is just as realistic as anarchy.

It did give poorer countries a flag to rally behind though, and instilled many independence movements. For that I give it props. American/British capitalism has never worked anywhere except rich white countries. Most semi-successful Asian countries are heavily Socialistic.

 

[eigen]

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: eigen

Originally posted by: Amplifier
North and South Korea at night.

Seen this years ago? This is 2005 and communist N. Korea is still a slum.

-Amp

You could do the same thing with say the South and the WestCoast or NorthEast.

You sure?

Those are all campfires,cross and church burnings or moonshine stills exploding.

 

[Amplifier]

Originally posted by: eigen

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: eigen

Originally posted by: Amplifier
North and South Korea at night.

Seen this years ago? This is 2005 and communist N. Korea is still a slum.

-Amp

You could do the same thing with say the South and the WestCoast or NorthEast.

You sure?

Those are all campfires,cross and church burnings or moonshine stills exploding.

lol

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Colt45

Originally posted by: daveymark

Originally posted by: Colt45

and it case you think capitalism works, check out most broke ass countries on earth

For instance?

most of africa, south america, fvcked over by imperialists and their own leaders over the years.


well I guess it depends what "working" is to a person.

Capitalism != imperialism, dimbulb :roll:

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Colt45
north korea isnt experiencing communism

and it case you think capitalism works, check out most broke ass countries on earth

What does every single rich country on earth use? Capitalism. Now go away with your idiotic statements.

 

[Zebo]

Need balance. It's no coensidence the 20 richest nations on earth have capitalism with strong socialistic undertones.

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Colt45
north korea isnt experiencing communism

and it case you think capitalism works, check out most broke ass countries on earth

What does every single rich country on earth use? Capitalism. Now go away with your idiotic statements.

lol, quite an oxymoron since communism doesn't have anything to do with money and therefore you wouldn't be able to measure a country as rich.

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Colt45

Originally posted by: daveymark

Originally posted by: Colt45

and it case you think capitalism works, check out most broke ass countries on earth

For instance?

most of africa, south america, fvcked over by imperialists and their own leaders over the years.


well I guess it depends what "working" is to a person.

Capitalism != imperialism, dimbulb :roll:

Right, the same way as:

Modern Practised Communism != Authoritarianism.

Are you gonna agree with me on that?

 

[novon]

N. Korea practices personality cult and oppression, not communisim

 

[coomar]

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Colt45

Originally posted by: daveymark

Originally posted by: Colt45

and it case you think capitalism works, check out most broke ass countries on earth

For instance?

most of africa, south america, fvcked over by imperialists and their own leaders over the years.


well I guess it depends what "working" is to a person.

Capitalism != imperialism, dimbulb :roll:

Right, the same way as:

Modern Practised Communism != Authoritarianism.

Are you gonna agree with me on that?

pretty much

 

[Whaspe]

Originally posted by: IvanAndreevich
Amplifier
So South Korea wastes much more power. And?

PS I know communism doesn't work.

Hey, you beat my to it

 

[Whaspe]

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: eigen

Originally posted by: Amplifier
North and South Korea at night.

Seen this years ago? This is 2005 and communist N. Korea is still a slum.

-Amp

You could do the same thing with say the South and the WestCoast or NorthEast.

You sure?

What time of day was this taken at? That even line down the middle is suspect.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Colt45
north korea isnt experiencing communism

and it case you think capitalism works, check out most broke ass countries on earth

What does every single rich country on earth use? Capitalism. Now go away with your idiotic statements.

lol, quite an oxymoron since communism doesn't have anything to do with money and therefore you wouldn't be able to measure a country as rich.

...What? I was talking about capitalism, not communism. He said all the poor countries are capitalist. I just pointed out that every single rich country with a high standard of living is capitalist.

 

[Whaspe]

In theory, Communism has always been the best system hands down. This is bacause of the equality issue and everyone working for their common good. In reality communism will never work as those in charge corrupt it to stay in charge. Not to mention that with everyone working for the good of everyone you remove the single greatest thing that pushes us to do the things we do... GREED!

 

[AnyMal]

Originally posted by: novon
N. Korea practices personality cult and oppression, not communisim

Bingo. North Korea is as far from communism as USSR or China ever were. In itslef, the theory is utopian, and as such will never exist.

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: Amplifier
North and South Korea at night.

Seen this years ago? This is 2005 and communist N. Korea is still a slum.

-Amp

I think that shows more the effect of between sanactions and billions of dollars in aid more then communism vs capitialism.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Colt45

Originally posted by: daveymark

Originally posted by: Colt45

and it case you think capitalism works, check out most broke ass countries on earth

For instance?

most of africa, south america, fvcked over by imperialists and their own leaders over the years.


well I guess it depends what "working" is to a person.

Capitalism != imperialism, dimbulb :roll:

Right, the same way as:

Modern Practised Communism != Authoritarianism.

Are you gonna agree with me on that?

No. Why should I?

Communism is authoritarianism by its very nature. Its very definition is the forcible taking without due process from one to give to another (and sometimes not even to give).

Capitalism is the private ownership of property. Imperialism is the state exploitation of foreign lands in order to feed the government coffers. Kindly get your definitions straight.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Whaspe
In theory, Communism has always been the best system hands down. This is bacause of the equality issue and everyone working for their common good. In reality communism will never work as those in charge corrupt it to stay in charge. Not to mention that with everyone working for the good of everyone you remove the single greatest thing that pushes us to do the things we do... GREED!

This is beyond naive. Communism is not a utopian system. And the so-called utopian of communism will never work either in theory or reality. What prevents it from working is not human greed. What prevents it from working is that it destroys all happiness in individuals. All incentive. Under communism, human beings are reduced to machines, to mindless robots, and treated as such.
Now... you are correct about the practical aspect of communism. It's not just that the utopian stage is a lie, it's that the idea of ever bringing it about is entirely fictional. The whole reason for the promise of the utopian stage is so that the people can have a glorious future to look forward to with a kind of religious faith while the leaders exploit them forever.

A note about communists. Some time ago, I wondered that most communists claim to be anti-government. It struck me as odd that people who claim to be anti-authoritarian would be proponents of the cruelest authoritarian system ever devised by the mind of man. Then, I realized that communists are not really anti-government. They're anti-people. They hate and distrust all people. This is why they propose a system where everyone must be forced into doing what they think is right, for their own good, regardless. Communism is not enlightened. Enlightenment is freedom and tolerance. Enlightenment is allowing your fellow human beings to make their mistakes as you will surely make your own. Communism OTOH is a fantasy of a petty, cruel, and immature mind.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: ntdz
I just pointed out that every single rich country with a high standard of living is capitalist.

Funny that, isn't it? Humanity lived in poverty for thousands of years, then we invent (and allow) freedom and capitalism roughly 300 years, and suddenly we have development, invention, and riches. In many countries today, the poor live better than kings did just a few hundred years ago. And the only political-economic system that can and should take credit for that is capitalism. Don't thank communism, it never invented sh!t, nor did it add to the wealth of the world, nor will it.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: Amplifier
North and South Korea at night.

Seen this years ago? This is 2005 and communist N. Korea is still a slum.

-Amp

I think that shows more the effect of between sanactions and billions of dollars in aid more then communism vs capitialism.

Then take a look at some of the other communist countries that may not have sanctions on them.

Albania, Cuba, China vs Tawain, East vs West Germany. etc.

There is a major class difference between the "controllers and controllees that is enforced within the communist society. Captialism allows a coutnry to grow and prosper; Communism states the father knows best (but only for him).

 

[MAW1082]

You guys are idiots if you are just going to look at which country is communist and which is capitalist to analyze the success of each country. It's actually quite a dynamic situation.

It's pretty difficult for a country with an extremely low supply of natural resources to be as successful as the rest of the international community while they have been forbidden from trading with them.

The trade embargos and its lack or resources are the most probable causes for North Korea's plight.

Although an authoritarian style government is not desirable, it has been the most successful style of government to brign about rapid modernization. Just look at the Soviet Union and how it became the only model for "modernization within a single generation."

So whoever brought up this conversation, go back to school!

 

[MAW1082]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Whaspe
In theory, Communism has always been the best system hands down. This is bacause of the equality issue and everyone working for their common good. In reality communism will never work as those in charge corrupt it to stay in charge. Not to mention that with everyone working for the good of everyone you remove the single greatest thing that pushes us to do the things we do... GREED!

This is beyond naive. Communism is not a utopian system. And the so-called utopian of communism will never work either in theory or reality. What prevents it from working is not human greed. What prevents it from working is that it destroys all happiness in individuals. All incentive. Under communism, human beings are reduced to machines, to mindless robots, and treated as such.
Now... you are correct about the practical aspect of communism. It's not just that the utopian stage is a lie, it's that the idea of ever bringing it about is entirely fictional. The whole reason for the promise of the utopian stage is so that the people can have a glorious future to look forward to with a kind of religious faith while the leaders exploit them forever.

A note about communists. Some time ago, I wondered that most communists claim to be anti-government. It struck me as odd that people who claim to be anti-authoritarian would be proponents of the cruelest authoritarian system ever devised by the mind of man. Then, I realized that communists are not really anti-government. They're anti-people. They hate and distrust all people. This is why they propose a system where everyone must be forced into doing what they think is right, for their own good, regardless. Communism is not enlightened. Enlightenment is freedom and tolerance. Enlightenment is allowing your fellow human beings to make their mistakes as you will surely make your own. Communism OTOH is a fantasy of a petty, cruel, and immature mind.

Freedom and Democracy! Peace!

You obviously haven't the least idea about the most fundamental concepts of Marxism.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: MAW1082
Although an authoritarian style government is not desirable, it has been the most successful style of government to brign about rapid modernization. Just look at the Soviet Union and how it became the only model for "modernization within a single generation."

So whoever brought up this conversation, go back to school!

Wrong. You mean rapid modernization by stealing all their technology from other countries, slave labor of the people under the cruelest of conditions (can you say "gulag"), and widespread environmental disaster.

Very informative of you to tell us that you support these things.

Freedom and Democracy! Peace!

You obviously haven't the least idea about the most fundamental concepts of Marxism.

No, I have every idea about Marxism. If you think that freedom, democracy, and peace have any place in Marxism, then it is you who doesn't have the least idea.
The so-called utopian ideal of communism isn't a myth or an unattainable reality kept from us by human greed or weakness. It's just a blatant lie to keep the masses distracted while the rulers exploit them. That's all it ever was. That's why Marx put it there.

 

[MAW1082]

Originally posted by: Vic
No, I have every idea about Marxism. If you think that freedom, democracy, and peace have any place in Marxism, then it is you who doesn't have the least idea.
The so-called utopian ideal of communism isn't a myth or an unattainable reality kept from us by human greed or weakness. It's just a blatant lie to keep the masses distracted while the rulers exploit them. That's all it ever was. That's why Marx put it there.

Yeah that's exactly why Marx wrote the communist manifesto and the incredibly detailed follow up in das kapital.

If you refer to the famous debate between Mark and Bakunin then you will realize that Marx had not anticipated the way in which communism would manifest itself in the twentieth century.

Marx thought that the social structure that he was supporting, i.e. dictatorship of the proletariat, would benefit society as a whole. Bakunin argued that this dictatorial structure would serve the same purpose as the beourgeoise does within a capitalist system.

So, when you claim that Marx was designing a system to exploit workers, you are exactly wrong. Marx thought he was designing a system to free workers from the exploits of capitalism.

In reference to your "Now I'm glad we know where you stand statement," I do think the economic analysis that Marx performed is almost undoubtedly correct. There are devices within a capitalist system that mandates a large portion of the population of the world is exploiuted by a 'ruling class.' I do not, however, support his assumption that the dictatorship of the proletariat is necessary.

I support equality and free association without coercion for the purpose of production.

Please don't post thing about which you have no knowledge in the future. You are only contributing to the further corruption of many of the impressionable minds on this forum.

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: ntdz
I just pointed out that every single rich country with a high standard of living is capitalist.

Funny that, isn't it? Humanity lived in poverty for thousands of years, then we invent (and allow) freedom and capitalism roughly 300 years, and suddenly we have development, invention, and riches. In many countries today, the poor live better than kings did just a few hundred years ago. And the only political-economic system that can and should take credit for that is capitalism. Don't thank communism, it never invented sh!t, nor did it add to the wealth of the world, nor will it.

Capitalism was invented 300 years ago? I don't exactly think capitalism was ever invented really. It really is just human nature when you think about it. If you have something I want and I have something you want, isn't it only natural to trade each other for what we want? If you are referring to Adam Smith, he only realized what was already happening around him.

Communism goes against human nature for the most part. That's why it's a utopian system that would never work because it goes against what humans generally would naturally do.