In AZ a woman can be 2 weeks pregnant before having sex. Really!

[Hayabusa Rider]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/04/04/arizona-bill-would-declare-pregnancy-2-weeks-before-conception/

I'm not about to try a cut and paste with my phone so you just have to click. Somehow this seems to me to be a biology fail.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Why does my State have to be a magnet for all the right wing nutjobs too old to move to Montana?

 

[kage69]

That state is just hellbent on trying to out-stupid Arkansas. Wow.

 

[waggy]

LOL

 

[Kadarin]

Religious nutjobs.

 

[Jaskalas]

In AZ a woman can be 2 weeks pregnant before having sex. Really!

That's not what they're saying, it's just their way of being dicks over the measurement of the length of a pregnancy. It matters on the subject of whether you can terminate and they don't want folks... lying to them, as if they could determine the truth anyway.

It's quite a bit of BS, but not the BS you're describing.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I understand whats going on. Just consider it a modest attempt at derision much as Raw is doing.

 

[cybrsage]

Guttmacher Institute’s State Issues Manager Elizabeth Nash told Raw Story that obstetricians start the clock on pregnancies after the “last menstrual period” to “be on the safe side.”

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/04/...-declare-pregnancy-2-weeks-before-conception/

OP should change the thread title since it does not represent the story in any way, shape, or form. The story says the bill considers pregnancy to have started at the same time obstitritcians consider pregnancy to have started.

 

[davmat787]

I understand whats going on. Just consider it a modest attempt at derision much as Raw is doing.

Usually your derision is top notch, I feel slighted this time.

From what I understand, it is fairly standard to add two weeks due to the menstrual cycle and other reasons, when estimating gestation. But why is the az.gov spending time on this? Ugh.

 

[Fern]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/04/...-declare-pregnancy-2-weeks-before-conception/

OP should change the thread title since it does not represent the story in any way, shape, or form. The story says the bill considers pregnancy to have started at the same time obstitritcians consider pregnancy to have started.

That's my understanding.

I.e., this is a non-story.

Fern

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Usually your derision is top notch, I feel slighted this time.

From what I understand, it is fairly standard to add two weeks due to the menstrual cycle and other reasons, when estimating gestation. But why is the az.gov spending time on this? Ugh.

Granted it's not my best

Still your point is, well, the point. AZ is being pretty nanny state for not being a nanny state.

 

[Jaskalas]

Usually your derision is top notch, I feel slighted this time.

From what I understand, it is fairly standard to add two weeks due to the menstrual cycle and other reasons, when estimating gestation. But why is the az.gov spending time on this? Ugh.

It's a fallacy to argue for the legislature's time, as if their time were money and something was lost in the process of them going through the motions of a particular piece of legislation.

Those who agree with it think they're saving lives. Is that not a worthy endeavor?

 

[Jaskalas]

Granted it's not my best

Still your point is, well, the point. AZ is being pretty nanny state for not being a nanny state.

I don't see where he broached the subject of the State violating its boundaries.

 

[shira]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/04/...-declare-pregnancy-2-weeks-before-conception/

OP should change the thread title since it does not represent the story in any way, shape, or form. The story says the bill considers pregnancy to have started at the same time obstitritcians consider pregnancy to have started.

Your reading comprehension skills are lacking, as usual:

The proposed bill calculates from the first day of the last menstrual period of the pregnant woman. That means, as soon as the woman sees blood, the clock starts ticking.

Obstetricians start the clock on pregnancies after the last menstrual period. That means after the bleeding STOPS the clock starts ticking. The operative word here is AFTER the last menstrual cycle, not on the first day of the last menstrual cycle.

Normal menstrual bleeding can last up to 8 days, so the difference between "from the first day" and "after" is up to a week.

 

[Jhhnn]

Why does my State have to be a magnet for all the right wing nutjobs too old to move to Montana?

Because of the weather, and because the legislature loves to pander to sentiments of people too old for reproductive rights to be a personal issue, at all, to xenophobic fears, gun nuts, and people with anti-gubmint sentiments who live on Medicare, SS & govt pensions...

Because they think Ayn Rand wasn't a joke, and because they've seen too many Rambo/ John Wayne movies... Maybe too many episodes of the Lone Ranger & Bonanza...

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Your reading comprehension skills are lacking, as usual:

The proposed bill calculates from the first day of the last menstrual period of the pregnant woman. That means, as soon as the woman sees blood, the clock starts ticking.

Obstetricians start the clock on pregnancies after the last menstrual period. That means after the bleeding STOPS the clock starts ticking. The operative word here is AFTER the last menstrual cycle, not on the first day of the last menstrual cycle.

Normal menstrual bleeding can last up to 8 days, so the difference between "from the first day" and "after" is up to a week.

If you want to get along here, you can't go around spouting facts in a political thread.

 

[cybrsage]

Normal menstrual bleeding can last up to 8 days, so the difference between "from the first day" and "after" is up to a week.

So then we both agree the OP is lying in his thread title. It is rare we agree.

EDIT: Where did you get the 8 days is normal from? WebMD says this:

Talk to your doctor if you notice any big change in your cycle. It’s especially important to check with your doctor if you have three or more menstrual periods that last longer than 7 days or are very heavy.

http://women.webmd.com/tc/normal-menstrual-cycle-topic-overview

EDIT EDIT: Normal bleeding is only 4 to 7 days, which means the average woman's length is less than one week long.

The menstrual cycle is not the same for every woman. On average, menstrual flow occurs every 28 days (with most women having cycles between 24 and 34 days), and lasts about 4-7 days.

http://adam.about.net/encyclopedia/Menstrual-periods-heavy-prolonged-or-irregular.htm

 

[cybrsage]

If you want to get along here, you can't go around spouting facts in a political thread.

Too bad he did not actually spout facts. Would have been a nice change.

 

[cybrsage]

Maybe too many episodes of the Lone Ranger & Bonanza...

Lorne Greene was awesome!

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Because of the weather, and because the legislature loves to pander to sentiments of people too old for reproductive rights to be a personal issue, at all, to xenophobic fears, gun nuts, and people with anti-gubmint sentiments who live on Medicare, SS & govt pensions...

Because they think Ayn Rand wasn't a joke, and because they've seen too many Rambo/ John Wayne movies... Maybe too many episodes of the Lone Ranger & Bonanza...

... while living on the East Coast.

Sigh, I may have to retire back to cold country just to manage my aggravation.

 

[IronWing]

The problem isn't new. The Arizona legislature has always been dominated by rightwing nutjobs. What has changed is the election of Jan Brewer as governor. Prior governors, R and D alike, have recognized that one of their most important roles as AZ governor is to veto most of the crap that passes the legislature. However, Jan Brewer is one of the legislative whackjobs, these are her people, so she signs this garbage.

Hence IronWing's Amendment to the AZ state constitution:
1) All votes in the legislature shall be recorded by roll call (no voice votes).
2) Legislators voting in the affirmative for any law later determined to be unconstitutional under the AZ constitution or the U.S. Constitution as amended at the time of the bill's passage shall be held personally responsible for all costs to the State in defending the law and liable for all legal fees of and damages to plaintiffs successfully challenging the law. Liability shall be joint, strict, and several.

If legislators had to pay for their stupidity out of their own pockets maybe they would restrict their grandstanding to grandstanding and not pass patently unconstitutional laws.

 

[actuarial]

Your reading comprehension skills are lacking, as usual:

The proposed bill calculates from the first day of the last menstrual period of the pregnant woman. That means, as soon as the woman sees blood, the clock starts ticking.

Obstetricians start the clock on pregnancies after the last menstrual period. That means after the bleeding STOPS the clock starts ticking. The operative word here is AFTER the last menstrual cycle, not on the first day of the last menstrual cycle.

I'm almost positive this is incorrect. When my wife was pregnant the OB based it on start of prior menstrual cycle, and a google search supports this as well.

 

[Lemon law]

As for me, I feel so safe and secure that big brother knows the exact day when every female's in our nation starts her menstrual cycle. Tell me because I am curious, do they do it by elves, or can I get a government paid job sticking my finger in every female's vagina in my jurisdiction to check for the presence of blood so I can chart when her cycle starts and stop's. Finally a government taxpayer financed bureaucracy we can all endorse, and better yet maybe a way to end unemployment. Of course only males like me would qualify for such a job, females simply can't be trusted with understanding their own bodies.

And better yet, its my second favorite dream job after mattress testing. I am qualified, have clipboard and will travel. As for you gals in my jurisdiction, when I show up, please be a trooper, and if you want to PMS, please don't cause an ugly scene. Just trying to do my job mam. Us males may have some trust in females, but we still have to verify. Its in the male chauvinist pig handbook for politicians in Arizona. But as Arizona goes so goes the nation.

 

[Jhhnn]

The measure's intent is simply to thwart unwary young women from having a relatively late abortion when they tell the truth about their last menstrual cycle, and to pander to the fringe in the process. There's no way to tell with sufficient accuracy when that cycle occurred other than from what she tells them. It'll stop a few, but more will simply do the math beforehand & lie about it as necessary.

 

[shira]

So then we both agree the OP is lying in his thread title. It is rare we agree.

EDIT: Where did you get the 8 days is normal from? WebMD says this:


http://women.webmd.com/tc/normal-menstrual-cycle-topic-overview

EDIT EDIT: Normal bleeding is only 4 to 7 days, which means the average woman's length is less than one week long.


http://adam.about.net/encyclopedia/Menstrual-periods-heavy-prolonged-or-irregular.htm

Before we get to your diversions, please acknowledge your statement - that the new law and obstetricians use the same standard - was wrong. Tell us you were wrong. No evasions.

Once we've gotten that out of the way, we can address your latest, erroneous diversions.