In an America with strict gun control....

[John Connor]

How about a mental health test before issuing a permit? I've heard so many times its about mental health but I don't hear any ideas on separating people who are mentally incapable from guns.

Two words: Adam Lanza.

 

[Spungo]

How about a mental health test before issuing a permit? I've heard so many times its about mental health but I don't hear any ideas on separating people who are mentally incapable from guns.

But one can't easily detect mental health problems. For example, you can't diagnose someone as having bipolar disorder unless you've dealt with them for at least a year, and every other possible condition needs to be ruled out first. Borderline personality is another one that slips under the radar. A person who worships you today could be plotting your murder tomorrow. This one takes so long to notice that people often get married before figuring it out. That's where we get these absolutely brutal divorces that go on for years and years. The relationship is never finalized because one party is completely insane. If the person having sex with them couldn't figure it out, I don't think the government would be able to figure it out either.

I will say that I generally like the idea of a waiting list. It doesn't need to be long. Just 1 month or so. Give people a chance to calm down and double check everything.
People who have never dealt with mental illness will never understand this, but people who are mentally ill can get hung up on the dumbest and simplest things imaginable. I can't remember where this was, but there was a bridge that had a problem of people jumping off to commit suicide. The city put up a 6 foot chain fence that anyone could climb, and the suicide rate at that location dropped significantly. That's all it took to change someone's mind. One could look at Canada's gun crime rate as an example of this. Guns in Canada are not hard to get. It's like getting a driver's license. You take a class, you write a test, and you get a license in the mail. With that license, you can buy guns and ammo. Most people are too lazy to do the paperwork, so most people in Canada do not own guns. They can, but that little hurdle stops most people.

The problem isn't just guns, but more gun culture.

I don't know about gun culture, but I can say there's definitely a culture problem. Michael Moore really nailed this in Bowling for Columbine.
I don't understand why Americans are such assholes. When I go to Canada, the people are so friendly. They're not overly confrontational, and they'll apologize for being in the way even if when they've done nothing wrong. The culture up there is one of accomodation and leaving people alone. The culture in the US is the exact opposite. Everyone in the US is up everyone else's ass. The drug laws up in Canada are way looser simply because nobody cares. You could smoke a joint in your back yard and not one person would even think about calling the police to complain about it unless they had some personal vendetta against you.

 

[theeedude]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

 

[Ertaz]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

The president's speech cited Britain and Australia as examples. Those are countries that had complete confiscations.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

To clarify, when compared to other states and to the proposed changes the democratic leadership is attempting to push, the states like Oregon, Connecticut, and others already have gun laws in place which are as strict or stricter with regards to background checks etc.

I'm from Oregon. If our gun laws are "strict," then I'm assuming that other states just hand you a gun when you step foot on their soil. Cause it's really not that hard to legally get a gun here.

As far as the idea that there will be a civil war from all the people saying "pry it from my cold dead hands," that's crazy. That sort of rhetoric is the counterpoint to all the liberals screaming that they'd move to Canada if George Bush won the election. You can count on one hand the number who followed through with that promise. And that was simply moving, not fighting a one-man armed insurrection. People talk big, but these are law-abiding citizens; they're not just going to start shooting at the marshals if the law changes.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Not me. My life is not defined by my ability to own guns.

 

[BxgJ]

I'm from Oregon. If our gun laws are "strict," then I'm assuming that other states just hand you a gun when you step foot on their soil. Cause it's really not that hard to legally get a gun here.

As far as the idea that there will be a civil war from all the people saying "pry it from my cold dead hands," that's crazy. That sort of rhetoric is the counterpoint to all the liberals screaming that they'd move to Canada if George Bush won the election. You can count on one hand the number who followed through with that promise. And that was simply moving, not fighting a one-man armed insurrection. People talk big, but these are law-abiding citizens; they're not just going to start shooting at the marshals if the law changes.

This is why I asked the question earlier. If we are excluding the 'slow boil' scenario, and essentially saying that given the current political climate the govt decides to take all the guns, what will actually happen with the military and various state agencies (police dept's, national guard, etc.). Will they just blindly follow orders? Or will they split to some degree as the general public will?

 

[Ertaz]

This is why I asked the question earlier. If we are excluding the 'slow boil' scenario, and essentially saying that given the current political climate the govt decides to take all the guns, what will actually happen with the military and various state agencies (police dept's, national guard, etc.). Will they just blindly follow orders? Or will they split to some degree as the general public will?

There is a substantial amount of conservative leadership in rural areas. There would be substantial organized resistance.

 

[jackstar7]

There is a substantial amount of conservative leadership in rural areas. There would be substantial organized resistance.

I think "organized" is being generous.

 

[theeedude]

The president's speech cited Britain and Australia as examples. Those are countries that had complete confiscations.

How are things in Australia?

 

[Ertaz]

I think "organized" is being generous.

Several LEOs see upholding the second amendment as part of their oath to support the constitution.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

This is why I asked the question earlier. If we are excluding the 'slow boil' scenario, and essentially saying that given the current political climate the govt decides to take all the guns, what will actually happen with the military and various state agencies (police dept's, national guard, etc.). Will they just blindly follow orders? Or will they split to some degree as the general public will?

Frankly, I think it's more likely that aliens will arrive on the planet tomorrow than the government passing any form of gun control at the national level. If you can't enact meaningful reform after 20 grade-schoolers are murdered in one of the most horrifying acts in our nation's history, ten dead college students isn't going to make a blip. It just will not happen, period. We've become utterly desensitized to mass shootings; we treat them as the cost of living in a free society.

 

[Ertaz]

How are things in Australia?

Probably hot. It's summer there I think.

 

[theeedude]

But was there some big violent revolution in Australia when guns were confiscated? Did someone's hands get cold and dead?

 

[Mandres]

Even ignoring the 2nd amendment, It's ridiculous to suggest that a complete confiscation of firearms is even possible. There are what, hundreds of millions of guns in this country? There is no way to ever remove them from circulation, period. The cat's already out of the bag with regard to the availability of firearms in America.

 

[jackstar7]

Even ignoring the 2nd amendment, It's ridiculous to suggest that a complete confiscation of firearms is even possible. There are what, hundreds of millions of guns in this country? There is no way to ever remove them from circulation, period. The cat's already out of the bag with regard to the availability of firearms in America.

It is possible. Not at all easy, but entirely possible.

 

[Ertaz]

But was there some big violent revolution in Australia when guns were confiscated? Did someone's hands get cold and dead?

They used the slow process. They were at around %7 gun ownership when they started. The US is at %35.

 

[Herr Kutz]

How are things in Australia?

Well they just had a shooting yesterday so not all rosy I reckon.

 

[cbrunny]

They used the slow process. They were at around %7 gun ownership when they started. The US is at %35.

Is that 35% of people (adults, I assume) or 35% of households?

 

[Mandres]

It is possible. Not at all easy, but entirely possible.

Bullshit. I have a ww2-era pistol that my grandfather passed down to me. If the law changed to authorize the feds to seize it, I would hide it in a safe deposit box or bury it in my backyard. I'll make certain it's never seized, and so will every other gun owner. If the FBI comes to talk to me I'll shrug my shoulders and say I forgot what happened to it - someone probably stole it.

The only method that would be effective at all is to try to buy them at a price so high that owners are tempted to take the offer. But the cost of such of a program like that would be astronomical and still fail to get 100%.

It's not possible.

 

[waggy]

Bullshit. I have a ww2-era pistol that my grandfather passed down to me. If the law changed to authorize the feds to seize it, I would hide it in a safe deposit box or bury it in my backyard. I'll make certain it's never seized, and so will every other gun owner.

The only method that would be effective at all is to try to buy them at a price so high that owners are tempted to take the offer. But the cost of such of a program like that would be astronomical and still fail to get 100%.

It's not possible.

Nope. wich would lead to going door to door searches. Because i doubt very many would turn them in.

Also far to many illegal guns are floating around.

 

[Ertaz]

Is that 35% of people (adults, I assume) or 35% of households?

House holds. The numbers are between 44 and 32 Depending on whether you trust Gallup or GSS. I meant to type 32 earlier.
http://www.newsweek.com/us-gun-ownership-declines-312822

 

[cbrunny]

House holds. The numbers are between 44 and 32 Depending on whether you trust Gallup or GSS. I meant to type 32 earlier.
http://www.newsweek.com/us-gun-ownership-declines-312822

Very interesting article. Rate is currently the lowest its been, and by a not-marginal amount! 50% in the early 80s to 32% 35 years later. I wonder why that is. The pro-gun lobby has gotten stronger. I guess the anti-gun lobby has as well, probably. Really interesting.

 

[OverVolt]

Kind of like how they banned bullet sales in chicago. You'll just have to find them somewhere else in the other surrounding 3,805,766 square miles where you can still get them.

 

[jackstar7]

Several LEOs see upholding the second amendment as part of their oath to support the constitution.

Wouldn't such a sweeping seizure only come after a rescinding of the 2nd? And at that point, when they don't have Constitutional backing... what then?