In a rut and need an upgrade...need help with purchasing decisions!

[DoctorDave]

*edit* I realize not everyone can read my little essay I got here, so here's the condensed version:

I need to upgrade the build in my sig for $600 to play contemporary stuff at a 1280x1024 resolution. It's either:

(1) Corsair HX620 PSU, EVGA GeForce 8800GT SSC, and a 2 Gb RAM and an X2 4200+ upgrade to the existing mobo, which I'll phase out at a later time.

or:

(2) A Core 2 Duo E6850, 2 gigs of DDR-800, and an Abit IP-35 Pro mobo.

I want to make whatever I get future-proof as possible, and I'm currently leaning toward option #1. Help me out!

Here's the original post in all of its glory for those of you who care:
*end edit*


Okay, so here's the story. As you can no doubt see in my sig, my system is in serious need of an upgrade. This is especially important because I am an Unreal Tournament fanatic and I'd like to have a system that doesn't disgrace me when UT2007 comes out very soon.

I realize I am not too well-off processor or GPU wise. I actually had a 6600GT until about a week ago, where parted with it and $30 for a 7600GT my friend had lying around. I don't think that will be much of a help, though.

I am a little hesitant to upgrade my motherboard/RAM/cpu for two reasons. The first obvious reason is that I don't see the point in buying a replacement socket 939 processor or DDR 400 memory to beef up my current system, especially when Core 2 Duo/ P35 mobos/ DDR2 800 prices are so temptingly low. The second reason I don't want to upgrade these parts is that I plan to build a PC for my family to use out of the components I phase out of my system (we're currently running a 400mhz Powermac G4 upgraded to 800Mhz...yeah, I know.). As long as the purpose of the computer isn't gaming, then I think my system (barring a RAM upgrade for Vista) is set for years to come as a family PC.

With this in mind, I intend to upgrade, but here's the catch. Since I am a poor college kid with no income flow (classes are currently too strenuous for me to have a job on the side), I asked the folks for some help, and they agreed to an approximately $800 dollar budget to upgrade. Since I need a hard drive and new DVD drives for my computer among other things (I'll use the old ones on the Family PC build anyway), and those things cost about $200 altogether (it's a 500GB hard drive, a DVD burner, an extra DVD drive, and some random case crap), that limits my effective budget for an upgrade to about $600, give or take.

So that's what I'm working with. I don't need to build them a new family PC right at this very moment, so I was thinking that I could upgrade my PC in stages, upgrading either the GPU and power supply first, or upgrading the CPU, motherboard, and RAM instead. I'm sure that I should be able to get whichever set of parts I don't buy first in the following 6 to 8 months.

I did some shopping on Newegg, and for the graphics + PSU option, I came up with this:

Corsair 620W PSU (I don't skimp on PSU quality, but I am unsure if I may need this power in the future.)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16817139002

EVGA 8800GT SSC
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814130302

...and whatever near-silent air cooling options that will come out for this card.
I'm thinking $50 to $60 for that, whatever I decide to do.


On the other hand, we have the Mobo/CPU/RAM option:

Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 (I chose this over the $100 cheaper E6750 because I'd rather have overclocking for the future be more of an option than a necessity. Plus, it performs better than the $1000 X6800 and is exactly half of a QX6850, and that makes me happy.)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819115028

Abit IP-35 Pro motherboard (I've heard nothing but good things about this one, and I need something with decent onboard audio and RAID capability for the future)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813127030

2 Sets of Super Talent 2*1 Gb DDR-800 RAM (I've heard nothing but good things about this one too)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820609026



...so those are my options. What can I do with $600? I hope I didn't leave anything out! Please, let me know what you think! I've spents days mulling over my options and I don't know if I can think anymore about this myself!

 

[jkresh]

a 7600gt is not going to be enough for any kind of reasonable resolution with ut2007 (regardless of cpu) but even with the 8800gt your 3700+ is going to be a limiting factor so either way you are not likely to get great results in any modern game. As to which will make a bigger difference I would guess the 8800gt will (depending on what resolution you want it to run at) and it will be a lot faster then what you have now, but don't expect miracles with a single core athlon 64.

 

[DoctorDave]

Originally posted by: jkresh
a 7600gt is not going to be enough for any kind of reasonable resolution with ut2007 (regardless of cpu) but even with the 8800gt your 3700+ is going to be a limiting factor so either way you are not likely to get great results in any modern game. As to which will make a bigger difference I would guess the 8800gt will (depending on what resolution you want it to run at) and it will be a lot faster then what you have now, but don't expect miracles with a single core athlon 64.

I kind of figured that would be the case. Right now, I run all my games at 1280*1024, because that's the limiting resolution on my BenQ LCD monitor, and I'm just fine with that. That probably doesn't change the situation too much though.

 

[onlyCOpunk]

What about an X2 CPU, another gig of ram and a new video card? But for most things I would say a new video card is your first priority.

 

[jkresh]

DoctorDave, if you can go with the top option and throw in a cheap x2 (4400+ or higher) it would help substantially (and might be worthwhile even if it postpones the move to core 2 by a few months).

 

[DoctorDave]

Thanks for the replies. I know this is like being stuck between the proverbial rock and the hard place as far as upgrade choices go, but I could definitely hang on to my current CPU/mobo setup for the time being. It's not bad in any way, I just needed to upgrade almost everything and wasn't sure what needed the most attention.

 

[DoctorDave]

Originally posted by: jkresh
DoctorDave, if you can go with the top option and throw in a cheap x2 (4400+ or higher) it would help substantially (and might be worthwhile even if it postpones the move to core 2 by a few months).

Hmm...Newegg only has up to 4200+ 939 processors left in their inventory, any idea where I can pick up a 4400+ at a similar price?

 

[s44]

Massive overkill on the PSU -- you save a ton by switching to, say, this.

The $64 4200+ is probably actually worth it. You should get some fair amount of OC if you have a decent HSF.

 

[DoctorDave]

Originally posted by: s44
Massive overkill on the PSU -- you save a ton by switching to, say, this.

The $64 4200+ is probably actually worth it. You should get some fair amount of OC if you have a decent HSF.

Hmm...I was considering the older HX520, because I'm a little uneasy about these new single rail PSUs, especially since they haven't received SLI and EPS12V certification, and if it turns out to be a passing fad, then I don't want to have to buy yet another PSU. I was thinking of the 620W PSU because I do want something relatively futureproof (the 5 years on the warranty is a looong time), and I am a little unsure about the 520W variant being able to cut it. Any suggestions about these concerns? Which of these beliefs are unfounded?

Also, I have yet to learn how to properly overclock the Athlon 64, especially on my very picky mobo (the last time I updated to the latest BIOS from the original BIOS, I got constant memory errors and the computer reset itself whenever memory usage approached 1 Gb), but I suppose that's a discussion for another day. If I replace this crappy PQI stuff with 2 Gb of Mushkin RAM with the same timings, then I might consider it down the road.

 

[jkresh]

I used to have that lanparty, (using it in a media center now), DFI's can be tricky but they are among the best overclockers, so you should be able to get a decent (20+%) overclock on the x2 (and possibly considerably more), as long as you have good cooling.

 

[Psymon]

The Corsair HX's are a very, very high quality PSU. In fact, through comparison and performance tests, they have been rated as one of the top PSU series for gaming especially.

The 520HX is perfectly fine, but if you want to just spring up for the hell of it (and have a little future proofing) just grab the 620HX.

I use the 620HX currently and highly recommend it.

 

[s44]

A fad? The 620HX is *itself* single-rail.

If you plan to do SLI, you probably want even more juice than the 620. But given your upgrade interval you probably never will SLI anyway.

Given your budget concerns, it's a waste.

The beauty of the AMD platform, btw, is that you don't have to OC memory to OC the CPU.

 

[Roguestar]

FYI I just can't read your OP. I'd love to help, and all, but I cannot bring myself to wade through an essay to find the finer points of what you're considering for your upgrade.

If only everyone used Blain's "Generic Build 34267" template!

 

[Psymon]

Originally posted by: s44
A fad? The 620HX is *itself* single-rail.

That's the point from what I've researched. In my case of not using SLI (as many others don't) a single-rail is a lot better than a dual-rail. That's why the HX's were so highly recommended for a gaming system.

I could be wrong, but that's just what I've found.


Edit: Here's a couple articles on it:
http://www.bjorn3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7457
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article28-page3.html

Touches a lot on a common misconception about watts and of course the single-rail vs dual-rail.

Last, but not least, the amps on the rails are the most important aspect of any PSU (in my opinion). From what I know, a single GTX8800 requires 30+ on the rail, and the 620HX (520HX) supplies upwards of 50.

 

[DoctorDave]

Originally posted by: s44
A fad? The 620HX is *itself* single-rail.

If you plan to do SLI, you probably want even more juice than the 620. But given your upgrade interval you probably never will SLI anyway.

Given your budget concerns, it's a waste.

The beauty of the AMD platform, btw, is that you don't have to OC memory to OC the CPU.

It's a good thing I have people to tell me these things. I didn't know that. And to be honest, I will probably never SLI. So I suppose you make a good point with the 550W one.

*edit* yikes, that one isn't modular? If that's the case I might as well spring for the 550W Seasonic, or just get the 620.

Originally posted by: Roguestar
FYI I just can't read your OP. I'd love to help, and all, but I cannot bring myself to wade through an essay to find the finer points of what you're considering for your upgrade.

If only everyone used Blain's "Generic Build 34267" template!

Sorry! >_< Yeah, I saw that post right *after* I posted.

To Summarize: I need to upgrade the build in my sig for $600 to play contemporary stuff at a 1280x1024 resolution. It's either PSU+GPU+minor RAM and CPU upgrade or a brand new CPU, RAM, and mobo setup. Basically, should I do an 8800GT and a nice Corsair PSU, or a Core 2 Duo E6850, 2 gigs of DDR-800, and an Abit IP-35 Pro Mobo?

 

[Zap]

How about this:

Abit IP35-E mobo $90
2GB DDR2-800 $60
Core 2 Duo E6750 $195
8800GT $250

total $595

Keep using your Seasonic X12 430W.

 

[Roguestar]

Originally posted by: DoctorDave

Originally posted by: Roguestar
FYI I just can't read your OP. I'd love to help, and all, but I cannot bring myself to wade through an essay to find the finer points of what you're considering for your upgrade.

If only everyone used Blain's "Generic Build 34267" template!

Sorry! >_< Yeah, I saw that post right *after* I posted.

To Summarize: I need to upgrade the build in my sig for $600 to play contemporary stuff at a 1280x1024 resolution. It's either PSU+GPU+minor RAM and CPU upgrade or a brand new CPU, RAM, and mobo setup. Basically, should I do an 8800GT and a nice Corsair PSU, or a Core 2 Duo E6850, 2 gigs of DDR-800, and an Abit IP-35 Pro Mobo?

Now that's more like it .

You'll notice a much larger performance gain in games at 1280*1024 with a better graphics card and better RAM rather than a much higher jump up the performance scale with the CPU. Zap's suggestion, though, is pretty much the best of both worlds. The 8800GT will make most of the difference but getting on the P35/C2D upgrade ladder may be better for your future upgrading prospects. :thumbsup:

 

[DoctorDave]

Originally posted by: Zap
How about this:

Abit IP35-E mobo $90
2GB DDR2-800 $60
Core 2 Duo E6750 $195
8800GT $250

total $595

Keep using your Seasonic X12 430W.

I like the way you think. I like it a lot.

But there is one eensy little detail I forgot to mention. Although all current Seasonic S12 430W PSUs are listed as having at least one PCIe 6-Pin power connector, for some reason, mine was one of those ones built before they started putting those on the PSU! I checked the manual, and the PSU itself, and it does not have one. So I guess if I'm running a 8800GT, I'll need a new PSU anyway.

Originally posted by: Roguestar
You'll notice a much larger performance gain in games at 1280*1024 with a better graphics card and better RAM rather than a much higher jump up the performance scale with the CPU. Zap's suggestion, though, is pretty much the best of both worlds. The 8800GT will make most of the difference but getting on the P35/C2D upgrade ladder may be better for your future upgrading prospects. :thumbsup:

So I've heard. Hopefully a 4200+ Athlon X2 with a little overclocking (when I learn to do it properly) won't create a CPU bottleneck, and 2 Gigs of DDR-400 RAM running at 2-3-3-6 should be plenty speedy for now (I can get that on Newegg for about $100...and my current 1 Gig DDR400 Pqi RAM running at 2.5-3-3-7 is giving me headaches even when the whole system is at stock speeds, so even if I don't need to touch the RAM to OC the system, it's gotta go If I'm gonna OC the CPU).

Also, I was thinking that with the introduction of DDR3, the new X38 chipset, and the upcoming release of AMD's Phenom, maybe it would be a good idea to see how prices of the current P35/DDR2/C2D are affected? (I suppose by that logic that I should hold out on getting the 8800GT for a couple of weeks too because of the upcoming ATI R670 family). Would this be advisable?

 

[Roguestar]

Either wait a week or two now and take the plunge, or wait until the end of January for new year releases and prices to come back down after Giftmas.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: DoctorDave
But there is one eensy little detail I forgot to mention. Although all current Seasonic S12 430W PSUs are listed as having at least one PCIe 6-Pin power connector, for some reason, mine was one of those ones built before they started putting those on the PSU! I checked the manual, and the PSU itself, and it does not have one. So I guess if I'm running a 8800GT, I'll need a new PSU anyway.

Nah, just use an adaptor. Your PSU has a combined 29A on the +12v, plenty of power for one measly 8800GT. Some cards will come with the adaptor such as this one (look at pics of included stuff). My wife's computer has a Seasonic S12 380W without the PCI-E plug. I'm using an adaptor on hers and she's running a slightly overclocked Core 2 Duo and a Radeon x1950Pro.

The only problem is that 8800GT cards are too popular right now, so availability is low and prices are higher than they should be. Supposedly a 512MB card should be around $250 and a 256MB card should be around $200, but the 256MB aren't even listed anywhere and besides a handful of places, most retailers are price gouging because demand is too high.