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Discussion Impeachment

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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
15,211
5,297
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No, the Constitution requires him to share the full, unredacted report with congress.

The idea that the executive branch could hide evidence of executive branch misconduct from the only branch of government that can hold the executive branch accountable for misconduct is bafflingly silly.
100% what it is all about. Difference between a democracy and the shitstain you have now.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
15,211
5,297
136
Again.... seems Pelosi is afraid to impeach or to start the process because it will most likely fail, certainly in the senate.
I don't think that is a good excuse or the best reasoning, from Pelosi.
Always remember, if Obama were accused of doing a fraction of what Trump is accused, you know... we all know.... that republicans would right now be conducting impeachment hearings.
And remember too, republicans were not shy attempting to kill off OBAMACARE, many many times republicans voted to kill it despite their assured failed attempts. Failing was never the issue. It was the act of putting the vote down on paper.
So republicans did that attacking Obamacare, and they did it A LOT.
Republicans were never shy going after Obamacare.
So what the hell is going on with the democrats?
Why do they not act?
Who cares if impeachment fails, at least democrats went thru the process.
Just as republicans went thru the process against Obamacare.

One never knows where impeachment hearings will lead.
Maybe, just maybe some new information will come out. Very damaging information for Donald Trump.
Hell.... maybe some crap will be uncovered indicating collusion within the republican controlled senate itself, and within the house when under republican control.
Just maybe the impeachment process would expose more than we can imagine.
After all, knowledge is power, as they say. Not to impeach is to forfeit the power.

Then, take Donald Trump.
A president under impeachment or had gone through impeachment whether efforts were successful or not, just having that process certainly would damage Donald Trump and his chances for a second term.
Even if acquitted, people can be funny when choosing their president. Just the stench of impeachment might turn off enough Trump supporters to change the game. Then, to create a loss for Donald Trump.

So as for Nancy Pelosi..... COME ON GIRL. Just do it!!!
You have not a clue where such proceedings might lead or what further dirt impeachment hearings might uncover.
No one can deny that Donald Trump and those around him are engaging in a cover-up.
Impeachment hearings were made to uncover that which has been covered up.
Come on Nancy.....
As GW once said, you're either WITH US or AGAINST US.

Frankly, I'm not convinced Nancy Pelosi is in fact WITH US.
It looks to me that Pelosi has a higher agenda than to go after Donald Trump.
It looks like Nancy Pelosi number one priority is to PROTECT THE ESTABLISHMENT.
THE ESTABLISHMENT which all of them benefits from, both republicans and democrats.
Pelosi protecting THE ESTABLISHMENT is the most important concern for her.
And the number one reason why WE THE PEOPLE must vote these old farts out of congress.
Pelosi, McConnell, Grassley, Feinstein, all of the fossils on both sides who obstruct the progress.
They may "act" as if they are on opposing sides, but they are as one when t comes to protecting their establishment butts.
And so, impeachment is not that important for Nancy Pelosi.
Nancy is just one of many in congress. Just another bitch from the litter. Litter and bitch as in the animal reference.
Maybe Pelosi is afraid of the further radicalization that impeachment proceedings will create... Maybe she is afraid of the prospects of a torn country. Maybe she is afraid of the civil unrest that will follow. Maybe she doesnt realize that she is already there,
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
17,841
1,891
126
No, the Constitution requires him to share the full, unredacted report with congress.

The idea that the executive branch could hide evidence of executive branch misconduct from the only branch of government that can hold the executive branch accountable for misconduct is bafflingly silly.
I disagree. This will have to be settled in court I suppose.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-subpoena-explainer/explainer-can-democratic-subpoenas-force-the-release-of-muellers-trump-russia-report-idUSKCN1RE2GW
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
105,025
19,712
136
No, the Constitution requires him to share the full, unredacted report with congress.

The idea that the executive branch could hide evidence of executive branch misconduct from the only branch of government that can hold the executive branch accountable for misconduct is bafflingly silly.
I think PCgeek is a monarchist, pining for the days when the Tories still had sway in the colonies.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
105,025
19,712
136
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Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,669
13,748
136
Mitch obstructed Obama's policies. Trump and his are guilty of obstruction, a violation of the law. These things are not the same, not that I think Mitch is anything but a cancer in the Senate.

It's all the same to McConnell, I'm sure.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,941
126
Given the many instances laid out in the Mueller report where the president acted criminally, or simply against the interests of the country for his own gain, what are the reasons for the House to not begin the process of hearings and investigations that would grow from the impeachment process?
To the folks downvoting me for my OP, can you explain yourselves?

I'm kidding. I know you can barely function, much less type out a cogent counter-point to this situation.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
13,156
2,732
136
Maybe Pelosi is afraid of the further radicalization that impeachment proceedings will create
Pelosi is a shrewd political creature. She is coldly calculating what is most beneficial to win her party the next election. She is playing the game politic to win.

It is a good trait at times, but this is not one of those times. One of the problems that many people have with the current Democrat party is that they all to often play these games instead of doing what is right. Right now we need strong leaders with vision and integrity, that is not what Pelosi and Schumer is good at. They are good at winning, but winning does not worth much if it does not come with the power to create change.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,669
13,748
136
Pelosi is a shrewd political creature. She is coldly calculating what is most beneficial to win her party the next election. She is playing the game politic to win.

It is a good trait at times, but this is not one of those times. One of the problems that many people have with the current Democrat party is that they all to often play these games instead of doing what is right. Right now we need strong leaders with vision and integrity, that is not what Pelosi and Schumer is good at. They are good at winning, but winning does not worth much if it does not come with the power to create change.
Literally attacking the integrity of Pelosi & Shumer is some kind of concern trolling, or gaslighting, or what?
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,659
8,789
136
Literally attacking the integrity of Pelosi & Shumer is some kind of concern trolling, or gaslighting, or what?
No such attack found. He just simply disagrees with Pelosi's strategy and the reasoning behind it.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,880
4,212
126
So Nancy is aboard for the moment it would seem. Whether she changes her mind or not remains to be seen.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,669
13,748
136
No such attack found. He just simply disagrees with Pelosi's strategy and the reasoning behind it.
Excuse me, but, uhh, WTF? Is there something about "Right now we need strong leaders with vision and integrity, that is not what Pelosi and Schumer is good at." you failed to recognize? Did he not say they weren't good at integrity?

And WTF is this whole routine that Dems aren't moving in the direction of impeachment? The report wasn't released until April 18. Congress was conveniently on recess until April 29. They've been back a week & day but it seems like an eternity given the amount of Trumpian bullshit spewed in the meanwhile.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
17,841
1,891
126
Uhmm, did you read your own link? It basically talks about how Nixon made the same arguments Barr is and utterly failed.
The constitution doesn't say that specifically, and Yes, I did read it and it would still end up in court to decide if they would have to turn it over...
I never said they wouldn't have to if ordered by the court. Don't be obtuse.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
17,841
1,891
126
...why should the co-equal branches of government suddenly not be co-equal, and one exist without any oversight?

why do you support this boldly unconstitutional form of our government?
I didn't support anything like it. I only said that if they refuse it will be decided by the courts.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,880
4,212
126
Yes I did read it and it would still end up in court to decide if they would have to turn it over...

So.
No. Why? The courts don't have to listen to a case state stare decisis. If you were correct courts would have to take every case to determine if precedent needs to be overturned and they do not. Barr can petition but he has no right to anything more. You mention "if they decide". Who are "They"?
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
20,012
11,337
136
I didn't support anything like it. I only said that if they refuse it will be decided by the courts.
Until the court's decide you really don't give a shit? You're allowed to have thoughts beyond a court opinion you know.

Its really 3 different options.

1. You're an empty vessel incapable to reasoning or forming your own conclusions.
2. You support the actions but don't really want to say so (this is the most chickenshit option)
3. You oppose the current course but for some reason are incapable of expressing this opinion clearly.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
71,162
20,865
136
The constitution doesn't say that specifically, and Yes, I did read it and it would still end up in court to decide if they would have to turn it over...
I never said they wouldn't have to if ordered by the court. Don't be obtuse.
So you acknowledge identical arguments were made in the past and were rejected by the courts, correct?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
71,162
20,865
136
Until the court's decide you really don't give a shit? You're allowed to have thoughts beyond a court opinion you know.

Its really 3 different options.

1. You're an empty vessel incapable to reasoning or forming your own conclusions.
2. You support the actions but don't really want to say so (this is the most chickenshit option)
3. You oppose the current course but for some reason are incapable of expressing this opinion clearly.
Right now the two primary things the administration is arguing congress should not have access to are:

1) evidence gathered in criminal investigations involving the president and his associates.

2) information on who is putting money in the president’s pocket. ie: information about possible financial conflicts and/or bribery.

No really, that’s how insane things are and Republicans are supporting it. I would love to hear a single situation, ever, where congress shouldn’t have access to all of that.
 
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umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,820
1,123
126
You gotta get less dumb. These times require more effort.

For starters, don't disagree with facts. You end up looking like a dumbshit.
This isn't disagreeing. This is someone who decided to stick their heels in until the bitter end and carry the water for criminals who are destroying our democracy. I thought these guys were defenders of the Constitution. What happened to the GOP and their Patriots?
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,820
1,123
126
Until the court's decide you really don't give a shit? You're allowed to have thoughts beyond a court opinion you know.

Its really 3 different options.

1. You're an empty vessel incapable to reasoning or forming your own conclusions.
2. You support the actions but don't really want to say so (this is the most chickenshit option)
3. You oppose the current course but for some reason are incapable of expressing this opinion clearly.
2 is the very clear answer for the water carriers of America... Even after all their family members, co-workers, and friends have all accepted (the hardest stage of grief) Trump and the GOP has sold out our country and our Democracy they'll still post in concerns and feels instead of what they are really thinking.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
13,156
2,732
136
Literally attacking the integrity of Pelosi & Shumer is some kind of concern trolling, or gaslighting, or what?
They are political creatures that will do what it takes to win. They rarely if ever stand on integrity, but instead maneuver to best advantage. It is most often the right way to win at politics. It is a weakness of the progressives like AOC and Warren that they are not better at the political maneuvering for best advantage.

Pelosi has basically said that she will not support impeaching Trump because it would not be politically advantageous to do so at this time. Someone with integrity would say that it is worth doing because it is the right thing to do.

The thing is Pelosi is probably right. It almost certainly will not actually end up in impeachment because it will die in the Senate, and in the end work in Trumps favor. But political maneuvering is also not inspiring. I'm saying that right now I think we need to be inspired more than we need to get rid of Trump.

This entire problem that is Trump is being caused by people being disillusioned by our politics. People are disillusioned because they have little faith in our politicians. Trump might be terrible, but he does seem to inspire a certain type of people, and because he does they will stand by him no matter what. We need someone that can do that one the other side of the table.
 
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