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IMF warns on U.S. economy

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
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Printing more money and loaning the money to the banks will solve all of our problems
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
571
126
The IMF's argument appears essentially to boil down to this: When you're broke, get another credit card.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
73,683
25,747
136
The IMF's argument appears essentially to boil down to this: When you're broke, get another credit card.
You know that it isn't, we've been over this a lot. More and more institutions worldwide are recognizing the failure of budget cutting in a recession. It's sad that it took this long for countries to realize that they were making a catastrophic mistake with austerity because it gave the world several years of unnecessary economic trouble, but at least now it seems that people are coming around.
 

brencat

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2007
2,170
3
76
Keynsian economics would work if we had politicians that weren't morally bankrupt and a citizenry that didn't expect free shit all the time.

But the fact is that we DON'T raise taxes during good times to pay for the government spending/stimulus we incur during bad times... "You can't raise taxes, you'll kill the economy and the stock market!!"

We never have, and we never will. The stimulus is temporary but the debt is forever.

So the only solution is to never incur the debt in the first place. That is reality Eskimospy.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
199
101
Fire up some more deficit spending, that will surely fix our problems. Spending more is always the right answer. Government spending is the equivalent of Maslow's hammer. If the only tool you have is a hammer, you treat everything as if it were a nail. If all you believe in is more government spending, then more government spending is the 'right' tool for every issue.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
73,683
25,747
136
Keynsian economics would work if we had politicians that weren't morally bankrupt and a citizenry that didn't expect free shit all the time.

But the fact is that we DON'T raise taxes during good times to pay for the government spending/stimulus we incur during bad times... "You can't raise taxes, you'll kill the economy and the stock market!!"

We never have, and we never will. The stimulus is temporary but the debt is forever.

So the only solution is to never incur the debt in the first place. That is reality Eskimospy.
You realize that your 'reality' is directly contrary to easily available historical evidence, right? The important part of any debt is the debt/GDP ratio and the US reduced that from a far higher level after WW2 along with another significant reduction in the 90's. That is reality, brencat.

The shifting explanations betray the actual motivations here. The first argument was just that Keynesian economics were total bullshit, that they were just wrong. The last several years have provided some pretty powerful evidence that they are in fact correct. Now the argument becomes 'well even if they are right we still can't do it'. I believe this is an ideological and psychological opposition to policy that is not based on actual outcomes.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
199
101
I believe this is an ideological and psychological opposition to policy that is not based on actual outcomes.
Yeah, that 15 Trillion dollar deficit we're looking at is one of those "actual outcomes". $15 trillion in the hole is not enough for some, lets double down and go $30 trillion in the hole.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
73,683
25,747
136
Yeah, that 15 Trillion dollar deficit we're looking at is one of those "actual outcomes". $15 trillion in the hole is not enough for some, lets double down and go $30 trillion in the hole.
Emotional ranting. You might be content to watch countries waste several more years pursuing failed conservative policies but thankfully policymakers appear less and less willing to do so. It's sad that it took this long, but the important part is that the world is finally moving towards a more sane fiscal posture.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
192
106
Government spending is the equivalent of Maslow's hammer. If the only tool you have is a hammer, you treat everything as if it were a nail.
In that case, lowering interest rates and printing more money is the answer to everything.
 

tydas

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2000
1,284
0
76
You realize that your 'reality' is directly contrary to easily available historical evidence, right? The important part of any debt is the debt/GDP ratio and the US reduced that from a far higher level after WW2 along with another significant reduction in the 90's. That is reality, brencat.

The shifting explanations betray the actual motivations here. The first argument was just that Keynesian economics were total bullshit, that they were just wrong. The last several years have provided some pretty powerful evidence that they are in fact correct. Now the argument becomes 'well even if they are right we still can't do it'. I believe this is an ideological and psychological opposition to policy that is not based on actual outcomes.
Thats the GOP motto...ideological versus evidence...pretty clear based on all their positions...
 
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
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You know that it isn't, we've been over this a lot. More and more institutions worldwide are recognizing the failure of budget cutting in a recession. It's sad that it took this long for countries to realize that they were making a catastrophic mistake with austerity because it gave the world several years of unnecessary economic trouble, but at least now it seems that people are coming around.

Budget cutting is the only thing that works, increasing spending will only make the situation worse
 

alzan

Diamond Member
May 21, 2003
3,860
2
0
Keynsian economics would work if we had politicians that weren't morally bankrupt and a citizenry that didn't expect free shit all the time.

But the fact is that we DON'T raise taxes during good times to pay for the government spending/stimulus we incur during bad times... "You can't raise taxes, you'll kill the economy and the stock market!!"

We never have, and we never will. The stimulus is temporary but the debt is forever.

So the only solution is to never incur the debt in the first place. That is reality Eskimospy.
Does "free shit" include unpaid for tax cuts?
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
2
0
You know that it isn't, we've been over this a lot. More and more institutions worldwide are recognizing the failure of budget cutting in a recession. It's sad that it took this long for countries to realize that they were making a catastrophic mistake with austerity because it gave the world several years of unnecessary economic trouble, but at least now it seems that people are coming around.
The States are cutting budgets left and right. The ramifications of continued fiscal irresponsibility is far greater than a slight bump in the road caused by austerity.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
462
126
Keynsian economics would work if we had politicians that weren't morally bankrupt and a citizenry that didn't expect free shit all the time.

But the fact is that we DON'T raise taxes during good times to pay for the government spending/stimulus we incur during bad times... "You can't raise taxes, you'll kill the economy and the stock market!!"

We never have, and we never will. The stimulus is temporary but the debt is forever.

So the only solution is to never incur the debt in the first place. That is reality Eskimospy.
I WISH the stimulus were temporary. We're spending the stimulus and TARP every year and Obama's supporters are calling it magnificent fiscal responsibility.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
199
101
Emotional ranting.
Yeah, that $15 trillion dollar deficit is just a figment of my imagination, our actual budget is doing fine.

Sorry, no amount of rationalization is going to get rid of the $15 trillion deficit that is growing larger every second -- that's a fact.

policymakers appear less and less willing to do so. It's sad that it took this long, but the important part is that the world is finally moving towards a more sane fiscal posture.
Yeah, more "sane", spend more when you've already massively overspent. That's your idea of sane, an idea shared by the idiots that brought us $15 trillion in debt. Of course politicians are going to take the path of least resistance, that's what got us in this mess to begin with.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
73,683
25,747
136
The States are cutting budgets left and right. The ramifications of continued fiscal irresponsibility is far greater than a slight bump in the road caused by austerity.
First of all, the states cutting their budgets was a horrible idea. Second of all, attempting to compare state budgets within an economy and separate national budgets is silliness.

Austerity has not caused a 'slight bump in the road', it has been an economic catastrophe.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
73,683
25,747
136
Yeah, that $15 trillion dollar deficit is just a figment of my imagination, our actual budget is doing fine.

Sorry, no amount of rationalization is going to get rid of the $15 trillion deficit that is growing larger every second -- that's a fact.

Yeah, more "sane", spend more when you've already massively overspent. That's your idea of sane, an idea shared by the idiots that brought us $15 trillion in debt. Of course politicians are going to take the path of least resistance, that's what got us in this mess to begin with.
I'm glad you have come around to the position of the significant majority of economists. If you can learn, anyone can. Bravo!
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
2
0
I'm glad you have come around to the position of the significant majority of economists. If you can learn, anyone can. Bravo!
And what do those economists say about a few years down the line when the Godzilla deficit finally bites us in the ass?
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,744
53
91
Printing more money and loaning the money to the banks will solve all of our problems

the withering effect of your obama med.tax will kick in 01/01/13. Small biz.will lay off to afford compliance..Medium/large biz.will lay off to cut pay roll expenses. No surprise.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
73,683
25,747
136
And what do those economists say about a few years down the line when the Godzilla deficit finally bites us in the ass?
Why don't you go find out for yourself? Most economists support additional spending and stimulus in the short term along with entitlement reform to address long term deficits.

Interestingly, this is the fiscal plan endorsed by Obama.
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
8,645
0
76
www.facebook.com
And what do those economists say about a few years down the line when the Godzilla deficit finally bites us in the ass?
The same excuses they try to make up when confronted with proof that austerity works. When Harding chose the path of austerity, there was quick recovery. When Hoover/FDR went on a spending and regulatory spree, the depression simply lasted 12 years. The govt has already been overspending since Coolidge left office and it hasn't made more people prosperous... Keynesian theory is a bunch of bullshit.
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
8,645
0
76
www.facebook.com
Interestingly, this is the fiscal plan endorsed by Obama.
Obama has not endorsed entitlement reform. Show me where he has advocated means testing for MC and SS. Show me where he has suggested cutting Medicare Part D expenditures in half by abolishing patents and using imported drugs.

It's not possible because the President is nothing more than a corporatist piece of shit.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
73,683
25,747
136
Obama has not endorsed entitlement reform. Show me where he advocated means testing for MC and SS. Show me where he has suggested cutting Medicare Part D expenditures in half by abolishing patents and using imported drugs.

I don't think you'll be able to, because the President is nothing more than a fucking corporatist piece of shit.
I don't think I'll be wasting any time showing you anything. You are an unemployed, parasitic piece of shit ranting at the internet from your parents' basement that somehow has the balls to tell us how the economy should be structured even though you've never done a day of real work in your life.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
2
0
Why don't you go find out for yourself? Most economists support additional spending and stimulus in the short term along with entitlement reform to address long term deficits.

Interestingly, this is the fiscal plan endorsed by Obama.
Since you seem to be such an expert on what the "significant majority of economists" are thinking I'd thought you'd just know off the top of your head.

So Obamacare is going to address our long term deficit? Because in terms of "entitlement reform" that's what we've got right now. Last I checked it's merely expanding our debt, like everything else.

Serious entitlement reform will not work for the same reasons austerity will not work. Both require that stuff be taken away from politically significant demographics who don't want it taken away. At least if we're talking deficit reduction.

The economy may fix itself, but our political structure is currently incapable of taking much action. Barring another bubble or magical political changes, austerity will come sooner or later, either forced or willingly. The later it comes, the worse it will be.
 
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