I'm watching Superman Returns...

[Judgement]

Decent movie so far.. getting towards the end of the movie

Superman was just stabbed by Lex with a shard of kryptonite, and then had it broken off inside him.

I see how this would/could be fatal for Superman, but just kind of annoys me. I know they can't let Superman die, but can we at least have SOME movies where the ending is realistic but there is still room left for a sequel?

Superman has been bothering Lex for years, IRL he would have slit his throat with the kryptonite shard and then shoved it into his heart. Maybe then this son could grow up with a chip on his shoulder and exact revenge?

Superman is probably a bad example, but my real point is that I'm sick of every movie that is destined to have sequels ending happily when it really probably shouldn't and honestly has no reason to.

 

[darkswordsman17]

That's why they're super heroes. If they sucked and died all the time then they wouldn't be good at all. I don't know if you're saying superhero movies or all movies should stop with the happy endings, but either you're not watching a good variety of movies or don't understand a basic fundamental of superhero stories.

 

[apac]

It's a superhero movie. There's supposed to be a hero.

 

[RagingBITCH]

Are you going to complain that you actually had to laugh at a comedy too? I mean, what a concept! A movie about a hero pervailing in the end. Oh noes the world is coming to an end!

 

[DangerAardvark]

John Peters: "You know who would be great to play Superman? Sean Penn."
Kevin Smith: "...Sean Penn? Why Sean Penn?"
John Peters: "Have you seen Dead Man Walking? Look into his eyes. He has the eyes of a stone cold killer."
Kevin Smith: "...it's fucking SUPERMAN."

 

[BigJ]

How many movies out there have there been where the evil guy wins decisively? I'm not just talking about getting away. I'm talking about killing the good guy, his family, and his dog. Any recent ones come to mind?

 

[Judgement]

You both pose the same point, and I understand it

I guess what I am aiming at is more towards what comic books ended up doing. I don't and have never owned/read comic books but I know enough to see that at some point most of the older characters like batman/superman etc were replaced by variants because they eventually lost. This lead to new plot lines (arguably better/worse... I honestly wouldn't know)

Maybe movies will eventually do this down the road and they are just working on covering the main plots with modern filming technology for now...

I think my examples were probably poor also.

I'm really just sick of happy endings because of something stupid the villain did. Not just in superhero movies, but in movies in general. I understand all of it is fiction, I just wish more movies would be more realistic/take the darker path with the plot. I'm not saying I want all movies to have a sad ending, I just want DIVERSITY.

If the hero always wins, I feel like the viewer loses.. you will always know the ending before the movie even begins. Can't we have some movies where the protagonist loses and a friend/family member exacts revenge in a sequel?

Superman takes a shard of kryptonite to his jugular and dies... son grows up and exacts revenge.

I enjoy these movies, just prefer movies with twists... and I feel like fictional/sci-fi movies these days are just way too predictable and I want that to change.

 

[Kirby]

Originally posted by: BigJ
How many movies out there have there been where the evil guy wins decisively? I'm not just talking about getting away. I'm talking about killing the good guy, his family, and his dog. Any recent ones come to mind?

No Country for Old Men?

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: BigJ
How many movies out there have there been where the evil guy wins decisively? I'm not just talking about getting away. I'm talking about killing the good guy, his family, and his dog. Any recent ones come to mind?

No Country for Old Men?

Haven't seen it. I am intrigued.

 

[theprodigalrebel]

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
John Peters: "You know who would be great to play Superman? Sean Penn."
Kevin Smith: "...Sean Penn? Why Sean Penn?"
John Peters: "Have you seen Dead Man Walking? Look into his eyes. He has the eyes of a stone cold killer."
Kevin Smith: "...it's fucking SUPERMAN."

And then in the ending...he fights a GIANT FUCKING SPIDER!

 

[darkswordsman17]

Originally posted by: Judgement
You both pose the same point, and I understand it

I guess what I am aiming at is more towards what comic books ended up doing. I don't and have never owned/read comic books but I know enough to see that at some point most of the older characters like batman/superman etc were replaced by variants because they eventually lost. This lead to new plot lines (arguably better/worse... I honestly wouldn't know)

Maybe movies will eventually do this down the road and they are just working on covering the main plots with modern filming technology for now...

I think my examples were probably poor also.

I'm really just sick of happy endings because of something stupid the villain did. Not just in superhero movies, but in movies in general. I understand all of it is fiction, I just wish more movies would be more realistic/take the darker path with the plot. I'm not saying I want all movies to have a sad ending, I just want DIVERSITY.

If the hero always wins, I feel like the viewer loses.. you will always know the ending before the movie even begins. Can't we have some movies where the protagonist loses and a friend/family member exacts revenge in a sequel?

Superman takes a shard of kryptonite to his jugular and dies... son grows up and exacts revenge.

I enjoy these movies, just prefer movies with twists... and I feel like fictional/sci-fi movies these days are just way too predictable and I want that to change.

The thing is, that is exactly what motivates a lot of superheroes, the death of a loved one (with Spider-Man it was his uncle Ben, Batman it was his parents, etc). They've also already done the son becoming the super person to avenge the father with the Green Goblin in Spider-Man. I just don't think that superhero movies are your thing. The stuff you're wanting is what almost killed off comics in the late 80s/early 90s (I think I got the time frame right). Everything just became a darker version of itself, with gimmicky crap. I'd rather the hero stuck around, as if you just keep replacing them with a son or something you keep getting the same thing anyways, only now you won't care as much because its a new actor or new angle (like introducing Batgirl or something like that). If you start having the hero die, then you start to make it meaningless.

I understand your point, I just don't agree with it on superhero movies. The big issue is that its so rarely used, so its is usually forced and contrived and ends up just not seeming natural (as odd as that sounds). When it comes to good or evil prevailing, if its a good story, it doesn't really matter, because the conflict and the resolution will seem worth it regardless. It just needs to be done such that even though good prevails, they lose plenty along the way that makes their fight mean something.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: BigJ
How many movies out there have there been where the evil guy wins decisively? I'm not just talking about getting away. I'm talking about killing the good guy, his family, and his dog. Any recent ones come to mind?

No Country for Old Men?

Sort of, great movie anyways.

 

[Judgement]

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17

Originally posted by: Judgement
You both pose the same point, and I understand it

I guess what I am aiming at is more towards what comic books ended up doing. I don't and have never owned/read comic books but I know enough to see that at some point most of the older characters like batman/superman etc were replaced by variants because they eventually lost. This lead to new plot lines (arguably better/worse... I honestly wouldn't know)

Maybe movies will eventually do this down the road and they are just working on covering the main plots with modern filming technology for now...

I think my examples were probably poor also.

I'm really just sick of happy endings because of something stupid the villain did. Not just in superhero movies, but in movies in general. I understand all of it is fiction, I just wish more movies would be more realistic/take the darker path with the plot. I'm not saying I want all movies to have a sad ending, I just want DIVERSITY.

If the hero always wins, I feel like the viewer loses.. you will always know the ending before the movie even begins. Can't we have some movies where the protagonist loses and a friend/family member exacts revenge in a sequel?

Superman takes a shard of kryptonite to his jugular and dies... son grows up and exacts revenge.

I enjoy these movies, just prefer movies with twists... and I feel like fictional/sci-fi movies these days are just way too predictable and I want that to change.

The thing is, that is exactly what motivates a lot of superheroes, the death of a loved one (with Spider-Man it was his uncle Ben, Batman it was his parents, etc). They've also already done the son becoming the super person to avenge the father with the Green Goblin in Spider-Man. I just don't think that superhero movies are your thing. The stuff you're wanting is what almost killed off comics in the late 80s/early 90s (I think I got the time frame right). Everything just became a darker version of itself, with gimmicky crap. I'd rather the hero stuck around, as if you just keep replacing them with a son or something you keep getting the same thing anyways, only now you won't care as much because its a new actor or new angle (like introducing Batgirl or something like that). If you start having the hero die, then you start to make it meaningless.

I understand your point, I just don't agree with it on superhero movies. The big issue is that its so rarely used, so its is usually forced and contrived and ends up just not seeming natural (as odd as that sounds). When it comes to good or evil prevailing, if its a good story, it doesn't really matter, because the conflict and the resolution will seem worth it regardless. It just needs to be done such that even though good prevails, they lose plenty along the way that makes their fight mean something.

I enjoyed reading your response.

You're probably right, I need to make my point but not relate it to superhero movies... even moving on to children/replacements of dead superheroes will only revive the genera/story for 1-2 generations at most.

I think my argument should maybe be pushed towards movies in general... not any specific genre. All movies have a protagonist and an antagonist.. Maybe I'm just sick of the protagonist winning in general, especially in such convenient ways.

Especially when the antagonist had what seems to be plenty of opportunities to easily be victorious.