I'm trying to apply logic to this Israel/Palestinian thing, but it ain't working

[XMan]

Couple of historical things I heard on the radio today, and just wanted to check for accuracy . . .

1) As far back as the time of the Roman Empire, Judea, what we now call Israel was the homeland of the Jews. They were defeated by the Romans, and their land was given to their enemies, the Philistines, or Palestinians.

2) In the late 1800's Mark Twain traveled through the region extensively and reported that few, if any, people lived there.

3) After WW2, when the land was granted to the Jewish refugees, the peoples living in the area (call them Palestinians for lack of a better term) were paid for the land. After the Israelis threw back the Arabs who attacked them, the Palestinians began demanding their land back, almost as if they were playing both sides, hoping Israel would be destoryed, so they'd get their land, and the cash. Isn't that like selling someone your house, then telling them to get out?

4) When Israel was first founded, the ratio of Isreali-Palestinan was 4-1. Now it's more or less balanced . . . so who are the ones that are bringing in all the colonies, then, hmm? The Israelis may be building settlements but there sure are a lot of people that have shown up in the past 50 years out of the blue.

Now obviously there are some hard feelings inherent toward the Jewish people, but why the heck aren't other nations brought up as well? The Crusades are mentioned very often as one of the reasons why America and Israel are evil in Palestinian propaganda. Do you know who participated in the Crusades?

First Crusade: France, Germany, Italy (vastly French)
Second Crusade: France, Germany
Third Crusade: France, Germany, England (Richard I, Lionheart - who didn't do much but get England into wars )
Fourth Crusade: The Usual Suspects
Fifth Crusade: You guessed it
Sixth Crusade: Germany
Seventh Crusade: France (Louis IX)
Eight Crusade: France (Louis IX)

I believe I've found the explanation as to why France kisses up the Palestinians! They don't want 'em to remember who REALLY started causing problems in the Middle East.

 

[Ronstang]

Logic and these people does not coexist, and yes I mean the Israelis too.

 

[Goosemaster]

What is really sad is that news that covers the stuff happening in the middle East(CNN)

Never goes into this stuff.....They treat you like idiots, and give you quick and incomplete information...


Worst o fall, we get used to it

 

[b0mbrman]

<< First Crusade: France, Germany, Italy (vastly French)
Second Crusade: France, Germany
Third Crusade: France, Germany, England (Richard I, Lionheart - who didn't do much but get England into wars )
Fourth Crusade: The Usual Suspects
Fifth Crusade: You guessed it
Sixth Crusade: Germany
Seventh Crusade: France (Louis IX)
Eight Crusade: France (Louis IX)

I believe I've found the explanation as to why France kisses up the Palestinians! They don't want 'em to remember who REALLY started causing problems in the Middle East. >>


Interesting...

 

[fatalbert]

of course you can't apply logic, there isn't anything logical about it

 

[Piano Man]

Xerox, the Palestinians were paid, but do you really think they had a choice in the matter? Probably not. However, this doesn not mean the Jewish people are in the wrong. The only thing that confuses me is why would a people that have gone through something as terrible as the Holocaust put another people(Palestinians in this case) into camps as well.. Granted, the camps today aren't as bad as the ones in WW2, but they aren't much better. Logic does not apply to matters where human emotions and suffering are present.

 

[Nefrodite]

I believe I've found the explanation as to why France kisses up the Palestinians! They don't want 'em to remember who REALLY started causing problems in the Middle East.


or maybe they are just wusses as ussual if they were strong they would remind them of their repeated assbeatings and threaten them with more if they don't behave. course.. the french are wusses...

 

[gopunk]

if i use logic, i find it hard to come up with a conclusion that gives the land solely to the palestineans. if anybody can show me why, go ahead. keep in mind the canaaites were there first (afawk), and they were assimilated into the isreali tribes.

 

[dribgnikcom]

<< the Philistines, or Palestinians. >>



Two totally unrelated peoples.

The ancient Philistines, a now extinct culture, were defeated by the Jews. The Romans who defeated the Jews later, called Israel "Phillistine" to rub salt in their wounds.

Today's "Palestinians" are nothing more than Arabs. They speak the Jordanian dialect of Arabic, and have no relation whatsoever to the ancient Phillistines.

 

[dexvx]

If you really look at it... Its nazi germany's fault... No holocaust, no jewish grant for Isreal, no violence in the middle east, except for Arabs randomly killing each other.

 

[Stark]

And who decreed that the crusades should take place? The pope.
And how long did it take before they figured out that they were not going to be able to "conquer" palestine? 300 years.

I have nothing against the Catholic members of the forum (I have lots of Catholic family members), BUT, historically the Catholic church has done some pretty stupid things and it doesn't look like anything has changed.

<-- thinks the pope cares more about his church, cardinals, and priests than the children who were molested. Infallible my butt.

 

[Texmaster]

Go back in history and you will find 20 sides to this conflict and thousands on explanations.

I dont Care about what happened in the past because once you get caught up in it, you never get back to the present.

I only care what has been going on in the region in the last few years and few months.

Addressing today is the only way to solve this conflict.

 

[etech]

dexvx


<< If you really look at it... Its nazi germany's fault... No holocaust, no jewish grant for Isreal, no violence in the middle east, except for Arabs randomly killing each other. >>



It's a very common misconception that the Jews were given Israel in response to the Holocaust. It's not entirely true and ignores more than fifty years of history of the Jews immigrating back to their homeland.

The conflict in the middle east started long before WWII.

Do some research on the Balfour declaration.

 

[Ulfwald]

When religion figures into the equation, there is no logic, only chaos.

 

[ThePresence]

<< The conflict in the middle east started long before WWII. >>



Are you referring to the day in 1929 when Arab gangs massacred 67 Jews in Hebron? Or are you referring to the 510 Jewish men, women and children slaughtered in Arab riots between 1936-39? Just curious. Perhaps the Arabs that killed all those Jews back then were upset about the settlements that were built after '67.

 

[etech]

Exactly.

Example.

"On November 9, 1937, five Jewish workers set out to work in the fields of Kibbutz Kiryat Anavim, near Jerusalem. They were encircled by an Arab gang and after exchanges of fire, all five were killed and robbed of their rifles (Kibbutz Maaleh Hahamisha - The Hill of the Five - was named for them). The murder stunned the Jewish community in Jerusalem, but despite their pain and anger, the leaders of the Jewish Agency continued to call for restraint. "

 

[jjones]

<< Xerox, the Palestinians were paid, but do you really think they had a choice in the matter? Probably not. However, this doesn not mean the Jewish people are in the wrong. The only thing that confuses me is why would a people that have gone through something as terrible as the Holocaust put another people(Palestinians in this case) into camps as well.. Granted, the camps today aren't as bad as the ones in WW2, but they aren't much better. Logic does not apply to matters where human emotions and suffering are present. >>


The Jews had been buying land from Arab landowners in the Palestinian region since the 1800's. Land legally purchased under Ottoman rule and later under British rule. As for the refugees, I borrow a quote posted by etech in another thread:

"Since 1948 it is we who demanded the return of the refugees... while it is we who made them leave.... We brought disaster upon ... Arab refugees, by inviting them and bringing pressure to bear upon them to leave.... We have rendered them dispossessed.... We have accustomed them to begging.... We have participated in lowering their moral and social level.... Then we exploited them in executing crimes of murder, arson, and throwing bombs upon ... men, women and children--all this in the service of political purposes...." - Khaled Al-Azm, Syria's Prime Minister after the 1948 war

The Israelis have not put another people(Palestinians in this case) into camps as well.