I'm so confused about the 4890 vs 5770 comparisons

[MaxJorgensen]

Maybe one of you experts can help tell me which is better:

MSI R4890 CYCLONE Radeon HD 4890 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-453-_-Product


or
MSI R5770-PM2D1G Radeon HD 5770 (Juniper XT) 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-457-_-Product

They are essentially the same price too :\



I hate when high end older models are close to or better than newer more advanced ones.

 

[Ika]

The HD4890 will be better than the HD5770 in most current games and most situations (actually, almost all of them). However, there is the issue of DX11 compatibility in the future, and improved performance. IIRC, recently, some beta drivers showed pretty huge gains (10-20&#37 in HD5850 performance. Also, games running in DX11 show some improved performance over the same game running in DX10 in the HD5xxx series.

 

[zmatt]

Right now the 4890 is faster. However the 5770 will get faster as drivers improve. it is very possible that it will surpass the 4890 very soon.

 

[GaiaHunter]

4890 is a better buy atm for current games.

5770 performs slightly worse atm, but driver improvements can probably help close the gap or even negate it. Then, the 5770 can take advantage of DX11 in the future (well some games use it already, just not many).

You need to choose between better performance now or more future proofing with possibility to increase in performance.

Additionally, the power consumptions of the 5770 are better.

 

[Wogdog]

It depends on what's important to you, the 4890 is faster, but requires 2 6pin power connectors. Uses more power, and runs hotter. I think it's a larger card overall. The 5770 only uses 1 6pin power connector ,uses less power, cooler temps and has DX11 support. They are both very good cards, and like everyone is saying the drivers on the 5770 are still being refined.

 

[ronnn]

After the 4770, the 5770 was a huge disappointment. Still I will likely get one soon, as the 5850 remains mia. As pt barum was reputed to say, people like me were born every minute.

 

[error8]

4890 is the better card overall, at this moment. It has a much higher memory bandwidth, performing faster all the time over 5770 and I don't know if the better drivers of the latter will manage to close the gap between them. Also, we can't really know if 5770 really has the ability to run dx11 games fast enough, when those will hit the market.
As I see it, the only advantage 5770 has over 4890 is the much lower power consumption.

 

[bryanW1995]

what resolution do you game at? what settings do you use? are there any dx11 titles on the horizon that you are going to play a lot? How important is power savings to you? How long do you plan to own the card?

answer those questions and we should be able to help you decide.

edit: btw, you might want to look at a different 5770 since that one is sold out.

 

[Adrenaline]

After the 4770, the 5770 was a huge disappointment. Still I will likely get one soon, as the 5850 remains mia. As pt barum was reputed to say, people like me were born every minute.

Zipzoomfly has the XFX 5850 for 319.99. They do free shipping. So, any place that will sell you a 5850, which is going for 299.99 at what seems to be 90%+ of the places online, plus shipping will come close to this anyways. Try there if you really want one.

Also, when you buy more than one thing from ZZF you get a small discount on each part you order, which I think knocks the 5850 down to 315.99.

 

[MaxJorgensen]

what resolution do you game at? what settings do you use? are there any dx11 titles on the horizon that you are going to play a lot? How important is power savings to you? How long do you plan to own the card?

answer those questions and we should be able to help you decide.

edit: btw, you might want to look at a different 5770 since that one is sold out.

I play all the new games - so I will certainly be playing dx11 games immediately when they come out if I can hardware wise. I don't think power would be a problem for me as far as the 4890. So with forthcoming drivers do you think the 5770 will be as good or better? If so it sounds like the 5770 might be the better choice.

"edit: btw, you might want to look at a different 5770 since that one is sold out."

DOH!

 

[bunnyfubbles]

The 5770 will also use less power. Unless you really need all the performance you can get, the 5770 is the wiser choice for the long run.

 

[MaxJorgensen]

The 5770 will also use less power. Unless you really need all the performance you can get, the 5770 is the wiser choice for the long run.

I don't get a new card as soon as better ones come out so I would like to buy what will be better in the long run like you say - my 8800GT was still chugging along with the latest games amazingly enough

 

[AzN]

4890 is the better card overall, at this moment. It has a much higher memory bandwidth, performing faster all the time over 5770 and I don't know if the better drivers of the latter will manage to close the gap between them. Also, we can't really know if 5770 really has the ability to run dx11 games fast enough, when those will hit the market.
As I see it, the only advantage 5770 has over 4890 is the much lower power consumption.

I have to agree with this. Driver improvements are wishful thinking.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

I don't get a new card as soon as better ones come out so I would like to buy what will be better in the long run like you say - my 8800GT was still chugging along with the latest games amazingly enough

Well Juniper (the 5700s) is pretty analogous to the G92 (the 8800GT and GTS 512) in that they're both improvements mostly in efficiency of technology that was introduced a year+ prior (ie offering similar performance but with less resource demand). Although in the case of the G92 supplanting the G80, the G80 was far more powerful for its time than RV770 was and thus we could expect Juniper (the 5700s) to not last quite as long (although to be fair, the 5700s are cheaper than the 8800GTs were upon release).

if you want staying power more in line with the 8800GT then you might have to pony up for a 5800 or perhaps 5700 crossfire

 

[nOOky]

4890 is the better card overall, at this moment. It has a much higher memory bandwidth, performing faster all the time over 5770 and I don't know if the better drivers of the latter will manage to close the gap between them. Also, we can't really know if 5770 really has the ability to run dx11 games fast enough, when those will hit the market.
As I see it, the only advantage 5770 has over 4890 is the much lower power consumption.

The 4870 trades blows with the 5770 in games, much less the 4890 when overclocked. I'm in agreement with the driver improvements, I don't see how with it's architecture the 5770 will catch or even overtake either card. Driver improvements aren't guaranteed. That leaves power consumption, which will probably not even be noticeable on your monthly bill. DirectX 11 is coming, but if you don't see a game on the list that you might like, and the effect will probably be minor anyway as it sits imho.
In my opinion buy for the games you are playing, not for what you might play a year from now.

 

[WildW]

I'm struggling to get my head around the 5770 issues. It's basically the same core as 4870 on a smaller process, but clocked faster, and with more memory bandwidth thanks to GDDR5, despite the narrower memory bus. . . and yet it's slower.

How is that even possible?

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Keep in mind that the 5700s are priced to target the same people the 4850 targeted when it came out. These people typically run mid to low resolution monitors where the 4870/4890's extra bandwidth won't really be made use of and thus the two are back to more even comparison levels in terms of performance, and thus giving the 5700s the edge due to superior features/efficiency.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

I'm struggling to get my head around the 5770 issues. It's basically the same core as 4870 on a smaller process, but clocked faster, and with more memory bandwidth thanks to GDDR5, despite the narrower memory bus. . . and yet it's slower.

How is that even possible?

it has less memory bandwidth because it has a 128bit bus vs. 256bit of the 4870/4890 (which does use GDDR5, albeit significantly slower, ~900MHz vs ~1200MHz).

its the 4850 that has GDDR3 on a 256bit bus, and the 5700s are faster than the 4850 hands down

 

[WildW]

I'm perhaps being confused by the figures. On the front page on Anand's review at http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3658 you've got 5770's memory described as 1.2GHz (4.8GHz data rate) GDDR5, vs the 4870's 900MHz (3600MHz data rate) GDDR5.

Is the 4.8GHz data rate on the 128 bit memory bus of the 5770 going to be roughly equivalent to a 2.4GHz data rate at 256 bit?

 

[Brunnis]

Is the 4.8GHz data rate on the 128 bit memory bus of the 5770 going to be roughly equivalent to a 2.4GHz data rate at 256 bit?

Correct. The bit rate is the performance of each parallel data line, so with twice as many lines you only need half the bit rate to achieve the same performance.

 

[yacoub]

Correct. The bit rate is the performance of each parallel data line, so with twice as many lines you only need half the bit rate to achieve the same performance.

Except that testing of the 5770 (including Anandtech's review) has shown that its meager 128-bit bus is indeed holding it back and even though the RAM runs at a higher speed, the bus is what is killing its performance. Stupid 128-bit tiny bus ATI stuck it with.

That's why many of us are hoping for a 5800 or 5830 to come along with the all-important 256-bit bus of the 5800 series, but this probably won't happen until the refresh in April/May timeframe.

 

[Patrickz0rs]

Are you serious? The 5770 will never give you better performance than the 4890. A 4890 will most likely play DX11 games with higher FPS than the 5770.

Even with new drivers, it is still not even a debate that the 4890 is will provide better results.

 

[ArchAngel777]

4890 is a better buy atm for current games.

5770 performs slightly worse atm, but driver improvements can probably help close the gap or even negate it. Then, the 5770 can take advantage of DX11 in the future (well some games use it already, just not many).

You need to choose between better performance now or more future proofing with possibility to increase in performance.

Additionally, the power consumptions of the 5770 are better.

I would go 5770 if I were to buy a card today given those two choices.

 

[betasub]

The 128-bit bus is a part of what allows partners to keep the costs down. These 5700 cards are destined for a mid-range price-point.

BFG's findings seem to show the 5770 isn't badly hindered by its memory bandwidth (relatively low GB/s compared to 5800) at non-ultra resolutions - making sense for its intended market.

 

[happy medium]

The 128-bit bus is a part of what allows partners to keep the costs down. These 5700 cards are destined for a mid-range price-point.

BFG's findings seem to show the 5770 isn't badly hindered by its memory bandwidth (relatively low GB/s compared to 5800) at non-ultra resolutions - making sense for its intended market.

A 5770's core will in most cases overclock to 1000 (check the reviews) which puts it above the performance of a 4870 and nips at the heels of a 4890.

Yes, BFG tested the memory bandwidth theory and it proved false. It's core speed you want and the 5770 overclocked delivers.

Now if they would just bring the price back to 159.99 like it was 2 weeks ago, all would be dandy.

I'm still praying for a 5830 for my next upgrade for ~ 210$.