I'm sick of only hearing about "Personal Responsibility"

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: bamacre
Get the government out of the market, and the market will get out of the government.

While that's a cute bumper sticker, it has no connection whatsoever with reality. The market will insinuate itself as deeply into government as it is allowed, because that is good for business.

Your second sentence says exactly what my statement says.

We get corporate lobbying because we allow government to intervene in the free market. Once laws can affect business, business tries to affect laws.

A "free market" totally without government intervention gives us child labor, unsafe working conditions, and employees getting paid in company script (among other things). Your bumper sticker idea only works if you totally ban the government from making any laws that affect businesses, and history pretty much proves that the magical free market utopia you think will develop isn't real likely.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: techs
Is anyone else tired of the same old refrain blaming individuals for every thing?

When I buy a product I expect it to be safe, work as advertised and be fairly priced. Yet all I see is cable companies with legal gobbleygook throttling bandwidth. All I see is phony erection pills being hawked. Foods routinely stuffed full of chemicals I never heard of. Software full of rootkits. Electronics that don't tell you what they really can do. Insurance policies that allow the company to deny anything, etc, etc, etc

Yes, many people are irresponsible. Yet a far greater number are unable to be lawyers, pharmacists, investment counselors, etc all rolled into one.

Which is why in todays world, with incredibly complicated products, changing financial markets, and literally armies of people whose job it is to DECEIVE people who are their customers are the MOST to blame.

/rant

The path of you getting fvcked over starts with you, so yes, the responsibility starts with the individual.

No one is going to care more about you than you, no one is going to have your interests more at heart than you so if you don't want to get screwed you better start paying attention.

It has always been that way and will continue to be that way, someday it may not be, but that day is when humanity ceases to exist.

 

[superstition]

The fundamental attribution error is a major factor in this:

In attribution theory, the fundamental attribution error (also known as correspondence bias or overattribution effect) is the tendency for people to over-emphasize dispositional, or personality-based, explanations for behaviors observed in others while under-emphasizing situational explanations. In other words, people have an unjustified tendency to assume that a person's actions depend on what "kind" of person that person is rather than on the social and environmental forces influencing the person. Overattribution is less likely, perhaps even inverted, when people explain their own behavior; this discrepancy is called the actor-observer bias.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F...ntal_attribution_error

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: bamacre
Get the government out of the market, and the market will get out of the government.

While that's a cute bumper sticker, it has no connection whatsoever with reality. The market will insinuate itself as deeply into government as it is allowed, because that is good for business.

Your second sentence says exactly what my statement says.

We get corporate lobbying because we allow government to intervene in the free market. Once laws can affect business, business tries to affect laws.

A "free market" totally without government intervention gives us child labor, unsafe working conditions, and employees getting paid in company script (among other things). Your bumper sticker idea only works if you totally ban the government from making any laws that affect businesses, and history pretty much proves that the magical free market utopia you think will develop isn't real likely.

I didn't say the government shouldn't have any interference in the free market. Certainly there needs to be a minimal amount. But the level we have today is absurd, and is a big reason why we have the corporate lobbying that we have.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: TheSlamma

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Well if you and other consumers really cared maybe you would all shop around.. Instead techs it's sheep like you and other American consumer zealots who just lay down and buy whatever is easy.

It took me over a year to finally find the BBQ grill I wanted. The hardest thing was I required it was made in USA, finally found a guy that welds em up over on 28th and Madison... have you ever in your lazy life looked that hard for something made in USA?

I doubt it.. American buying power is so much stronger then you can imagine too.. but since all the people you are so compassionate for are willing to just go to walmart, they are the ones who sell this country out. You just like to place blame on office since you are incapable of knowing any better.

Congrats on taking forever to buy a BBQ. That's quite the accomplishment.

Did your dumb ass not read the OP?

OP mentioned he wanted a good final product, I take the time to make sure I go out of my way to get that product from a seller who actually does that. While I am only 1 person that takes away from a company that does a half assed job. If morons like you and others would go out of their way to do this to we as consumers raise this bar and you put the cheating companies mentioned in THE ORIGINAL POST out of business or they have to improve their product.

All your simple mind is capable of is picking apart an example I lay down, well moron I take the time to find a good product in everything I buy, which means I bypass the bull$hit made in china most of the time as I think they export cheap $h!t. I prefer my cars start with a J in the VIN number, I prefer my scuba gear come from USA or italy. The point is it's in MY power to not get burned like the OP does.

Instead we get people like yourself and Techs who think the government should just step in and tell everyone to play nice.

Congrats again.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: techs
Is anyone else tired of the same old refrain blaming individuals for every thing?

When I buy a product I expect it to be safe, work as advertised and be fairly priced. Yet all I see is cable companies with legal gobbleygook throttling bandwidth. All I see is phony erection pills being hawked. Foods routinely stuffed full of chemicals I never heard of. Software full of rootkits. Electronics that don't tell you what they really can do. Insurance policies that allow the company to deny anything, etc, etc, etc

Yes, many people are irresponsible. Yet a far greater number are unable to be lawyers, pharmacists, investment counselors, etc all rolled into one.

Which is why in todays world, with incredibly complicated products, changing financial markets, and literally armies of people whose job it is to DECEIVE people who are their customers are the MOST to blame.

/rant

The path of you getting fvcked over starts with you, so yes, the responsibility starts with the individual.

No one is going to care more about you than you, no one is going to have your interests more at heart than you so if you don't want to get screwed you better start paying attention.

It has always been that way and will continue to be that way, someday it may not be, but that day is when humanity ceases to exist.

No, it is the day when humanity becomes what it really is.

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: TheSlamma

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Well if you and other consumers really cared maybe you would all shop around.. Instead techs it's sheep like you and other American consumer zealots who just lay down and buy whatever is easy.

It took me over a year to finally find the BBQ grill I wanted. The hardest thing was I required it was made in USA, finally found a guy that welds em up over on 28th and Madison... have you ever in your lazy life looked that hard for something made in USA?

I doubt it.. American buying power is so much stronger then you can imagine too.. but since all the people you are so compassionate for are willing to just go to walmart, they are the ones who sell this country out. You just like to place blame on office since you are incapable of knowing any better.

Congrats on taking forever to buy a BBQ. That's quite the accomplishment.

Did your dumb ass not read the OP?

OP mentioned he wanted a good final product, I take the time to make sure I go out of my way to get that product from a seller who actually does that. While I am only 1 person that takes away from a company that does a half assed job. If morons like you and others would go out of their way to do this to we as consumers raise this bar and you put the cheating companies mentioned in THE ORIGINAL POST out of business or they have to improve their product.

All your simple mind is capable of is picking apart an example I lay down, well moron I take the time to find a good product in everything I buy, which means I bypass the bull$hit made in china most of the time as I think they export cheap $h!t. I prefer my cars start with a J in the VIN number, I prefer my scuba gear come from USA or italy. The point is it's in MY power to not get burned like the OP does.

Instead we get people like yourself and Techs who think the government should just step in and tell everyone to play nice.

I agree with some of the sentiment, but I think the reaction to your post was that you're being kind of a punk about it. Maybe suggesting ideas without calling people sheep and morons would go farther...it's just a thought.

But your idea also has problems. Voting with your dollars is quite a powerful statement, but you're making the wrong one. If you want to encourage "corporate responsibility", you'd buy from GOOD companies, not just companies that slap "made in the USA" on their product. We have plenty of crappy companies right here in America, and there are plenty of good companies overseas...if you want to encourage corporate responsibility, buy from the good ones, no matter where they are located.

My choice of being made in Japan for my car, or products made in USA or Europe is because I consider 95% of things that come out of China to be complete crap and I don't feel like supporting sweat shop labor. OP was after a product as advertised and reliable.

Sure voting with your wallet and buying quality doesn't gaurantee 100% sucess rate of the company being ethical, but I think it's as close as it's going to get when you consider making a quality product requires better employees and better standards. I think to get there a company already has to raise the bar ethically to attain that.

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Congrats again.

Nice rebuttal

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
...
Note when I said this -

"OP mentioned he wanted a good final product, I take the time to make sure I go out of my way to get that product from a seller who actually does that"

My choice of being made in Japan for my car, or products made in USA or Europe is because I consider 95% of things that come out of China to be complete crap and I don't feel like supporting sweat shop labor.

Sure it doesn't gaurantee 100% sucess rate of the company being ethical, but I think it's as close as it's going to get when you consider making a quality product requires better employees and better standards. I think to get there a company already has to raise the bar ethically to attain that.

Ah, I see what you're saying. And yeah, I'd agree that quality products seem to come from pretty good companies, at least in many/most cases.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: TheSlamma

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Well if you and other consumers really cared maybe you would all shop around.. Instead techs it's sheep like you and other American consumer zealots who just lay down and buy whatever is easy.

It took me over a year to finally find the BBQ grill I wanted. The hardest thing was I required it was made in USA, finally found a guy that welds em up over on 28th and Madison... have you ever in your lazy life looked that hard for something made in USA?

I doubt it.. American buying power is so much stronger then you can imagine too.. but since all the people you are so compassionate for are willing to just go to walmart, they are the ones who sell this country out. You just like to place blame on office since you are incapable of knowing any better.

Congrats on taking forever to buy a BBQ. That's quite the accomplishment.

Did your dumb ass not read the OP?

OP mentioned he wanted a good final product, I take the time to make sure I go out of my way to get that product from a seller who actually does that. While I am only 1 person that takes away from a company that does a half assed job. If morons like you and others would go out of their way to do this to we as consumers raise this bar and you put the cheating companies mentioned in THE ORIGINAL POST out of business or they have to improve their product.

All your simple mind is capable of is picking apart an example I lay down, well moron I take the time to find a good product in everything I buy, which means I bypass the bull$hit made in china most of the time as I think they export cheap $h!t. I prefer my cars start with a J in the VIN number, I prefer my scuba gear come from USA or italy. The point is it's in MY power to not get burned like the OP does.

Instead we get people like yourself and Techs who think the government should just step in and tell everyone to play nice.

I guess when you are lying unconscious in the hospital you shop for heparin not made in China?
Or you know where the ingredients for your prescriptions are made?
Or you know what every ingredient inyour processed food is an know its safe because you ran your own tests?
Or you shopped for an internet provider that didn't secretly throttle your speeds?
Etc, etc.

Sorry, but if your premise is that people CAN know and buy good and safe products and get what they think they are gettting, I think I addressed that in my post about how people can't be doctors, lawyers, chemists, financial advisors, etc all rolled into one.
In fact I think its hubris to believe you can "out think" the best minds their fields whose job it is to fool you when buying a product.

 

[Sinsear]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Personal responsibility is the delusion egotistical people who base their self worth of illusions they have achieved something flatter themselves they are worthy of something and thus hide from their self hate.

Whatever; spoken like the total douchebag you are. Good luck with your commune where everything is hugs and rainbows.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Sinsear

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Personal responsibility is the delusion egotistical people who base their self worth of illusions they have achieved something flatter themselves they are worthy of something and thus hide from their self hate.

Whatever; spoken like the total douchebag you are. Good luck with your commune where everything is hugs and rainbows.

The commune can always use fertilizer, thanks you very much.

 

[Starbuck1975]

When I buy a product I expect it to be safe, work as advertised and be fairly priced. Yet all I see is cable companies with legal gobbleygook throttling bandwidth. All I see is phony erection pills being hawked. Foods routinely stuffed full of chemicals I never heard of. Software full of rootkits. Electronics that don't tell you what they really can do. Insurance policies that allow the company to deny anything, etc, etc, etc

That is quite the laundry list, but a specific example would be nice...nothing on that list screams of business irresponsibility...and at first glance, all of these corporate deceptions are easily thwarted by informed consumers.

So what is the problem exactly?

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

When I buy a product I expect it to be safe, work as advertised and be fairly priced. Yet all I see is cable companies with legal gobbleygook throttling bandwidth. All I see is phony erection pills being hawked. Foods routinely stuffed full of chemicals I never heard of. Software full of rootkits. Electronics that don't tell you what they really can do. Insurance policies that allow the company to deny anything, etc, etc, etc

That is quite the laundry list, but a specific example would be nice...nothing on that list screams of business irresponsibility...and at first glance, all of these corporate deceptions are easily thwarted by informed consumers.

So what is the problem exactly?

he found out Bob was full of shit...:laugh:

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: Sinsear

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Personal responsibility is the delusion egotistical people who base their self worth of illusions they have achieved something flatter themselves they are worthy of something and thus hide from their self hate.

Whatever; spoken like the total douchebag you are. Good luck with your commune where everything is hugs and rainbows.

Being fearful of misunderstood things is certainly a wasted emotion.

 

[MonkeyK]

Originally posted by: Sinsear

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Personal responsibility is the delusion egotistical people who base their self worth of illusions they have achieved something flatter themselves they are worthy of something and thus hide from their self hate.

Whatever; spoken like the total douchebag you are. Good luck with your commune where everything is hugs and rainbows.

Wow, sounds like someone touched a nerve there!